Micky

The truth hurts - but Tim is right in a way. These kids are being fed to the lions, they aint good enough - but they are all that we have. We need to keep believing in them otherwise they will surely fold at every game in which the going gets tough. Spin no, encouragement, advice and support - yes. Currently it's the only way we are going to get out of this mess.

Would agree - I didn't see anybody not trying today - the fact of the matter is they played to thier potential, but this was never, ever going to be anywhere near enough to worry Man Utd. They are simply not good enough to compete. Individually we probably have a few that are good enough - collectively, unfortunately we are nowhere near the mark. Tis not thier fault - they just aint good enough.

Exactly - so if you're going to do anything against the top sides - you have to play well, get your fair share of luck and defend properly. Unfortunately none of those things happened for us today.

Because they are 10 times better than us - simple fact really.

Better team spirit perhaps.... we look like a team that really doesn't have too much confidence no matter who we play.

Red or Yellow - you have to also take into account that somebody is also assessing Mike Rileys performance as well. It looked a rash, poorly timed tackle - a red for me.

For those that haven't seen it: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2086897.ece

Point..?

Laughable - hello - he doesn't want to smoke on the concourse. (He did have a crafty few puffs there though, and that might well be terminal for you if you were one of the 15000 or so that were withn 100 meters of him when he committed that cardinal sin). Again you appear to be playing moderator and trying to regulate what can and cannot be discussed here. You seem to think that he wants the ban lifted - he doesn't - he wants some arrangement in place to be able to smoke safely away from non smokers. No more no less. Honestly guys - he wants a cigarette - it ain't the end of the world. BTW - Should we also get a petition going to: Get a centre back Remove Lowe Remove Wilde Get Corke back Organise a mass demo ...or perhaps just discuss the possibilities here on the forum.

Damn - nothing like starting the New Year as you mean to go on I guess. Could be a long hard second half to this season now.

I am not quoting anything from the club...! I'm agreeing with the rules - so is MC. He has not vented his frustration anywhere - merely raise a valid issue about his matchday experience. If relating his smoking experience, and posting an honest account of it here, in the hope of finding a workable solution is in your opinion irrational then I wonder how you view the many other threads here. I would imagin that those posters currently trying to organise mass demonstrations and oust certain board members are not only irrational but should be sectioned - surely?

Errr no he doesn't - read post 244.

Many thanks for bringing some perspective to the argument - perhaps his point wasn't well made - but the fact remains, I still think that his request for smoking arrangements should at least be considered. It would be interesting to see how many publicans would be willing to revert to 'smoking allowed' premises if the law allowed them to.

Ahhhh right - so we won't bother with SWF now then. Whenever we have a problem or issue with the club we will resort to pen and paper - and write to the club in person. Just like you do with all of the 'issues' that you have with the club then eh? Or do you air them here, on the Saints Web Forum? Just for the record as well - I agree with the ban, totally. But I can also appreciate others requirements as well. Thanks for your input - it was enlightening to say the least - the very least that is.

I only really read the first line - nobody is advocating tolerance to drink drivers - total rubbish. Strangely though drinking is actively encouraged in entertainment venues. I don't wish to get into some stupid argument with you about toilet seats and the like - I really cannot be bothered. Nobody is advocating smoking inside SMS - purley looking for sensible smoking arrangements for those who attend.

No idea what the bold statement is meant to mean. As for the rest of your argument - yes it holds water to some extent and certain issues would need to be dealt with, that said - smoking facilities are apparently being successfully implemented at Derby, Coventry and other stadiums - therefore I still see no reason why not here. If there is a cost issue that cannot be met, then perhaps it is not possible, but simply discriminating against people, on the grounds that they are smokers, for me, is not an option.

Exactly - square one - showing no tolerance whatsoever to others requirements - a classic 'non-smokers' stance. And this is all the originator wants access too, during games (or at least a half time) - not really too much to ask is it...?

Yeah many thanks - I think we have long established & accepted that fact. Solution....???

We fully appreciate the rules - we are trying to work within them. The originator tested the rules and they work - he had a fag and was ejected. He now want to try and find a simple solution to a simple problem which has been solved in other venues. It's not a case of trying to inconvenience anybody else - it's not a case of trying to split the atom - it's a relatively simple problem. As for your 'if you can't wait for 2 hours.... don't get on a plane, train etc', yep, I agree, thats a solution - and here we are right back at square 1.

Not quite sure what your point is in relation to disabled or blind persons. However, I fully agree with you, people do choose to smoke - as is thier right to do so. Like people choose to drink, drive (too fast in some cases), jump out of aeroplanes, ski, swim and a multitude of other lifestyle activities that all carry some element of risk to the participant or others in their vicinity. It is, to my knowledge, a free world - we may not like what others wish to spend their time doing, but we should all be tolerant to their needs. What happens when the 'drinking in public places' ban is introduced in a few years - where will all the drinkers go for their half time pint?

Perhaps you should read the whole thread before jumping in heavy handed. The guy doesn't want to blow smoke in your (or anybodies for that matter) face. He wants some smoking arrangements at SMS. He doesn't want to break any of your H & S Rules or Regulations, he doesn't want to be (and nor should he be) blamed for your rising insurance premiums. He wants to have a cigarette - no more, no less. Now I don't smoke, but as others have pointed out on here, other entertainment venues have sourced quite simple yet workable solutions to this problem - therefore I see no reason why SMS cannot follow suit. Come the day when a working man can't enjoy a quiet smoke then we are in trouble, what next for the Government to govern? Strange that the Government has made strenuous efforts to provision for non smokers, surely it is discriminatory to therefore not make those same efforts for smokers - no?

I think that a few here need to dismount thier high steeds....!! The originator is not advocating that smoking be allowed in SMS at all. He admits to the fact that he tried to find an unoccupied area where he had a crafty smoke - he got nicked and was ejected. All he is asking is for 'proper smoking facilities or arrangements' to be afforded to him in or around the ground. The way some of you are reacting is as if he wants to light up, blow smoke all over you and your kids, stub his fag out in your eye and litter the remnants all over the stadium. That is not what he is suggesting - he would like a sensible solution to the problem. Fair enough if the club decide the problem is not worth sourcing a solution to allow for smoking clientel then sobeit. But lets not all mount our lofty steeds and blame the originator for the state of our air and how it's drastically affected our own, and childrens health and wellbeing. All the guy wants is a quiet cigarette ffs.

As an ex smoker I can sympathise with your plight and agree that the club should afford it's smoking customers some kind of facilities that can be used at half time at least. I work away from home a lot of the time in Germany where they have just introduced the smoking ban into public places, much the same as over here, however in a lot of places it has not worked. In the region in which I work, I'm led to believe that after only a couple of months trial it has all but been dropped because business premises, (pubs, clubs and restaraunts) were all losing too much. As I was flying out of Schipol Airport in Amsterdam the other day - I also noticed that they have once again started to install smoking boothes in certain parts of the building. If it can be done there - I see no reason why sensible smoking arrangements cannot be made at SMS.

Ohhh I see - so you are actually judging him and making assumptions based on accounts of what other players have done at the wheel of their motor vehicles - good plan, could probably save loads on legal fees if such a concept was introduced - but I doubt it ever will be.

Interesting debate - sad to see that the usual suspects are out to deliver the coup de gras based on a few lines of 'hurried journolism' and very little fact. It is a tragic case, young man involved in a RTA where another man tragically loses his life. And the facts that we do actually know, that JR allegedly was changing tracks on an iPod. How do we know that - well we can only assume that he admitted that much to the police (in which case well done him). But does that mean that he was (is) totally to blame for the accident. Do we know for sure that the deceased gent didn't do something that contributed to this accident? Was a 3rd party involved, who failed to stop? What other contributing factors were ? Perhaps it would be wise to allow all of the facts to be considered before we open the trap door or pull the trigger - eh - just a thought.