chi saint

And who woke you up Umm Duh? Get back to bed and when you feel able to post a supportive and coherent post then start typing, frankly having read your your recent offerings i'm beginning to wonder if you have lost the plot, correction, perhaps you do have a plot and not one that is designed to help Saints. So either get on board or get off and find somewhere else to spout your bile.

Hey, ALWAYS-SCHEIDENFREUD you want to get a grip wee man. Clearly you are a fair weather supporter and that's assuming you actually support Saints, as judging by your comments and tirades one begins to wonder if you are a Poopey boy. You seem to be against any success Saints conjure up, perhaps it goes against your grain and you only really get enjoyment from others ills, hence from now on you shall be known as Scheidenfreud. Iv'e said it before and frankly kind of find it perverse, that some people like your good self seem to get immense satisfaction from Saints troubles and seem genuinely upset when we win, as yesterday. You need to take a look at yourself in that mirror you carry with you and ask if Saints would be better off with or with out your so called support. I think you know the answer! but if your still unsure read some of your recent posts or if needed get someone to read them to you.

I know this isn't a popular view but the team today won despite the losers walking through 'town' in what can be best described as a stroll rather than a protest. Still despite their best efforts Wotte and boys still came up with the goods.

I said it before I think Wotte might just might get us to stay up and yes I agree he seems similar in style to Pearson in that he doesn't seem to want to please everyone and will give the players some stick if needed. As for his latest comments about fans, whilst not as astute as Pearson in that regard, I suspect that he knows that anything he does is unlikely to find favour with the fans as he's seen as RL's man so doesn't care that much. He must realise the only chance he has to win fans round is through results.

Great result, now need to press on and get some more points on the doors. Wotte may not save us from the drop but he has certainly shaken things up for the better. Despite the doomsayers and the losers who are so called protesting, the team is trying the best they can and fingers crossed the results will continue to come as they did today.

Yes, I support the team, not the board, similarly in order to deprive the board of my money I will not deprive the team of my support. With ONE exception, if there is a vast swell of support to boycott a game then I will support that as it's the only way we the fans will be able to exert actual influence.

Not a controversial view at all, some of us, in fact a large number of us, have been saying this is the time to support not protest. You know the old adage about when the going gets tough....... Seems to me that Saints has a proportion of fair weather supposed fans, although I consider them merely attendees, unfortunately a number post on here. An earlier post went on about "as were already down", not only is that idiot mathematically inept but with that sort of mentality why bother going to games? Theres some truth in the idea that negative thoughts breed negative outcomes, or put another way a self fulfilling prophercy. Until we are actually sunk we should be cheering our little hearts out and chanting for RL and the rest to go during the game, unless of course you want our lads to lose?? GET BEHIND THE TEAM AT THIS VITAL TIME!!

Well if it doesn't matter what people think, why are you responding to others comments on this forum. Your wasting your valuable time...FACT. Anyway your wrong, we clearly did deserve something from the game and in parts played very well and in other parts did ok.

If she doesn't want to accept I do have a wet blanket as a substitute, no one would notice the difference. She is one of the problems not part of the solution, her and her ilk have not stood up to anyone and merely plead loyalty whilst protecting thier own self interest.

If you really want to make an impression and effect change there is only one of two ways. Option 1 :-When or if it becomes mathematically impossible for us to stay up then implement a boycott. Be it one or more games. The number of games would be unimportant of course in terms of league status as by that time it would sadly be academic but would as with option 2 below send a clear message that the majority consensus is for change, and such action couldn’t spun in terms of a vocal minority. Option 2 :-Alternatively if we are not relegated, don't renew season tickets, it would be a classic case of brinkmanship. With a month or a week to go to the start of the new season and the number of season ticket renewals say around the 2 thousand mark (there are always going to be some who go against the majority) the gaping hole in projected funding would have a salutary effect on any board. Now here's the important and crucial bit, the board would know there would be a surge of renewals if there was change and for once the power would be squarely in the grasp of the fans. All the protests, marches, even pitch invasions will have minimal effect. The only way is the threat of non-attendance and the resulting, perceived or actual, dive in funding and effective fan power!

Heres what I don't understand. It's readily apparent that large numbers of posters on here don't enjoy attending matches anymore, they don't like the manager, the team and it's efforts, performance, nor even the choice of players choosen to represent the club. They are upset at being taken for a ride in terms of paying excessive ticket prices, they HATE the owner and his board. They consider the club to know longer be there club as it was, in there view, so many years ago. They feel the need to vent they're anger by abusing to a greater or lesser degree both the players and manager. Indeed recently it devolved in to fighting amongst thier supposed own fellow supporters. They seem to have nothing positive to say but instead prpose protests wal outs and ona couple of occasions have suggested more direct action against those they consider largely responsible for the demise of this club! So with all that in mind why for the life of me they don't tear up they're tickets and spend match days doing something more constructive and ultimately more satisfying than watching such dross. Could it be they have nothing else in there lives and so find companionship with other similar minded ( I use that term loosely) individuals, perhaps a need to be a part of, or wanted by someone. So another words if you don't like what you are seeing SOD OFF, go get a life, get marrried, get to school, what ever it is ... do something and stop being so boring. U know who you are u moaning irritating sad bunch of morons. There I feel better....

I think you would have to be delusional not to recognise that the fans are not helping. Look at the home record ? it speaks for itself, a team is supposed to relish playing in front of thier own supporters, can any right minded individual truly believe that this is and has been the case most of this season and for a large part of last season. One minute were complaining about fielding a team of kids who are doing their respective best but "aren't they're yet", "maybe a few years time" etc and in the next breath they're being slagged off on here and at the game, great method to aid development ..NOT. All this rubbish about how much they are paid, should be used to it, part of the game etc, no we need to look to ourselves and ask what can we do to save this season, certainly mass walk outs or protests won't do it that's for sure. I for one think it's a case of 100% vocal support from now on at the game win or lose, who knows our applause might even stir the odd player to feeling a little guilty about our position and possibly give that little extra of himself if of course it's there to give! The start of next season is the time to do something and that would be if you feel so unhappy with the situation, not renewing season tickets or not purchasing tickets on the gate...now that would have the desired impact. But at this juncture we can make a difference..it's for us to decide if it's going to be a positive one or not.

I think we might just scrape it, currently we still have a part to play in our fate but give it 2 perhaps 3 games and then we will be firmly in the hands and results of others. However it can be done!

Well you know what they say, those that can, do and those that can't teach or in this case shout abuse from the stands. Another saying goes - praise in public and criticise in private. Precisely the opposite to what many now do during the course of a game. Whilst we all groan and wince, offer less than constructive advice at times about going for the ball or learning to cross etc, why some feel the need to go beyond that and engage in issuing personal abuse or threats at individuals or collectives I don't know. I can't believe that when they step on the pitch they don't want to do their respective best, that's why they have choosen that career path because they love the game and want to win. It's at times like this that we all have to stand up and be counted and clearly both at the game and in this forum some want to be counted as fair weather fans, plenty of praise and congratulatory fervour when things are going well and vitriol and abuse when times become difficult as now. I do hope what ever happens that these misguided foes, for that is what they are fast becoming in respect of a club they would have us believe they support, that these foes are reminded of their deeds when we are through this time of crisis and when they will attempt to portray themselves as true fans rather than what they are fast becoming, part of the problem.

I think your first line (cobblers is all I can say to that) says it all, it is succinct and neatly forms the sum total of your arguement. I think we'll agree to disagree and besides I only have one post left tonight and wouldn't want to waste it on this futile thread ha ha.

The point you are missing, again, is that any manager has contacts, they know what they face in terms of budgetry constraints, the reputation of the board, the youth set up, the back room staff capability etc etc and they would certainly know that joining this club presently would at the first sign of defeat amount to accusations of being a friend of Lowe, his acolyte, letting Lowe run the team and tactics etc, none of which would have any foundation. So get real, face facts, we are not an attractive proposition to any manager with a half decent reputation. With the constant managerial merrygoround any decent manager would know he'd only have to wait a while until an opportunity arose. Hence the Dutch contingent. As for your assertion that we as a club have been supportive of our previous managers only confirms your a revisionist where history of this club is concerned. But if it needs setting the record straight here goes:- Your quote "Some of us even wanted Gray to get a bit more time" - like Wotte you mean? We couldn't believe Lowe fired Sturrock... Well I certainly recall derisory comments almost from the start, largely centred around his presentation skills, nothing to do with his football, pathetic! Then appointed Wigley- I liked the guy but I hope your not attempting to make a case that he got the fans support in any great numbers? We rejoiced at Redknapp (bad call) - I would argue that was a classic case of Schadenfreude - but ended up a case of what goes around comes around! Thought Burley was a decent effort. - This is simply unforgivable as it's so recent, I could understand you forgetting the previous examples but sorry the abuse that man got both in terms of team selection, tactics, even to the point of questioning his drinking habits (Wanted Dodd and Gorman to succeed) - Well you need to address with all those that immediately questioned their qualifications in the role, similar to Dennis and Dave Bassett in that regard. Wanted Pearson to STAY - agreed some of us from as soon as he got the job, others when he had saved us, either way I agree he was wanted. Your quote " Thought Poortvliet was high risk but gave him time" Thats what we are doing with Wotte - you need to get a grip old chap, time is something we don't have I realise but again neither are we likely to get a choice of managers. The only real choice we have is to support the club or not. For some of us no choice at all as to do anything else feels at this time of crisis to be a betrayal of players and a management team whom I have no doubt are doing their best, perhaps their best is not good enough, that well know relatively shortly but i'll do my bit as long as they continue to do theirs. I don't support Lowe, frankly right now i'm not going to waste my energy trying to dislodge him, rather i'll get behind the team and do my best. They can ask no more from me.

What on earth you mean by referring to goal difference I have no idea but then I suspect on reflection neither do you, you can hardly blame Wotte for that. Although I don't doubt you will find a way to justify such a ludicrous claim. As for green shoots?, yes I consider there have been some signs of improvment in the past three games and reading others posts i'm not the only one. I am crucially prepared to accept the current situation by realising it is unlikely in the extreme that Wotte is going to be replaced in the next few games just because you don't rate him! Not that I suspect he's particularly interested in your opinion. It is pleasing to see from other posts on this thread that i'm not in the minority, not that it would prevent me from giving my opinion, unlike some who follow others like lemmings. No it seems that there are like me a large number of fans who are willing to give their support, perhaps somewhat qualified, but nonetheless willing to give it when it's really needed, and we all know now is that time. What I find dismaying is the comments about Wotte being "responsible for our position", "that Lowe still calling the shots" etc etc, unless some of those (you may or may not be one of them i'll reserve judegement) are part of the management or sit in on team talks then what on earth is the point of such ill informed comments except to show them to be the ignorant fools they are. Nope, paint it anyway they want (note I don't personalise this aspect), at the moment one of the weaknesses of this great club is a lack of truly commited fans, those that will see the course and not waver when the going gets tough. Perhaps it's indicative of society as a whole, 'wanting something for nothing, high unrealistic expectations, lack of personal responsibility' etc etc, although when one considers what our service personnel are going through overseas there are exceptions to that rule. No, for me the club needs supporting and even if we go down, which I happen to think won't be the case, I will give my support to the team and manager, not the board but the club, for me their is a distinction. So when you and countless other decide to criticise perhaps confine it to this forum if you have to and not at the ground, it does no one any good including I suspect your good self.

Well I wouldn't describe myself as a Wotte supporter but i'm certainly prepared to nail my colours to the mast. I think he is a better bet than Jan, he appears more ruthless and less inclined to worry about pleasing everyone all the time. Whether he is more tactically astute remains to be seen but his first three games bode well, of course whether it is all too little too late remains to be seen, and of course it's wins we need not just signs of improvement. Whilst like everyone else on here I have no actual idea if we will stay up I strongly believe it's highly likely and wil do so until it is mathematically impossible to do so. So yes he does have my support as does the rest of the team as to do otherwise at this time of need will for me feel like a betrayal. I can't do a lot to help the cause but to remain as positive as possible, certainly whilst at the game, and keep any criticism I have away from the players and the management. So just to be clear I am supporting Wotte, as i'm Saints through thick or thin.

Listening on the radio, it sounded as though we were pretty active, although Dave M states otherwise so don't know what to think, except that this league is slipping away from us. Oh and Norwich won 4 - 1 I believe!!

This idea of a few/minority of attendees (you can't call them fans) having an agenda in respect of RL and MW is completely wide of the mark. Lets get real, most of them wouldn't understand what an agenda actually is? Face it, were not talking about the smartest bunch are we, their endless chants of RL out and now the beginnings (after 2 games) of a 'Wotte's useless' mantra only confirm their blinkered view. Whilst I too would like to see Lowe out and a benefactor in, as it's unlikely at this precise moment then as far as i'm concerned i'll do my bit by supporting the saints, that's s u p p o r t i n g not u n d e r m i n i n g. If we survive this period whether it be via relegation or even adminstration I hope those idiots that post on here and there are to many to bother listing hold their heads in shame and admit that apart from paying for a ticket they have done nothing to help the situation, were bereft of ideas and sought, perhaps unwittingly in some cases, deliberately in others, to bring the club down to their level.

I would have thought the march probably just added confirmed to those on the outside looking in that we are a disjointed club, run by idiots and supported by a minority of idiots but with a hard core of fans who attend week in and week out, supporting the team and not feeling the need to go walk about. The march had such an impact that Lowe was on his hols and may have heard something about it, and in truth thats about the sum of it. What would be better is if those that want to do something stopped renewing their season tickets and rest boycotted for a single game, now both those acts would have a true impact.

I'm sure Wotte is really not bothered with your footbaling insights, he's trying to win games, impress the board to retain his job and ultimatly keep us up. Personally I was pleased he spoke his mind, whether you like the message or not is at this crucial stage largely irrelevant, the fact that he is harder edged than Jan and isn't looking to please everyone is the main thing. I would have preferred a more experienced English manager but it's not meant to be so i'm for the time being prepared to support him and the team in the hope that doing so will assist rather than hinder. I can't see how criticising, protesting, baracking and singing negative songs at this vital and pivitol stage of the season is going to do anything but add pressure to an already underperforming team who are clearly in the last few games trying to turn a corner. What I do think is at the moment there is a large contingent of so called fans who for some perverse reason are looking for Wotte to fail, probably because they think this will hasten Lowes exit, not considering that Wottes failure will by default signal the demise of the club, certainly in this division and possibly worse.

Completely at odds with what should happen I think well win this one, 1 - 0 or 2 - 1. I reckon the new guy is a harder option than Jan and clearer in what he wants and expects (who wouldn't be?). The players will respond and we will start to gather some points over the coming weeks, with undoubtably a few setbacks.

No what it should do is make the morons who caused trouble untenable. If everytime something goes wrong they start fighting where would we as a club be? Its a game, some of those giving it large really need to get a life and some perspective. All they have achieved is to drive another nail into the financial coffin of Saints, I hope they're pleased.

Well go luck with your march, your gonna need it. I suspect they'll be a few hundred, most of whom won't have a clue what they are actually trying to achieve except "Lowe out". Whilst they'll be thousands attending the match, refusing to get involved and showing their support in a positive way. If they are more on the march than those inside the ground then i'll admit i'm wrong but I doubt it. Someone should if they feel so strongly about the situation Saints boycott the club until their demands are met, give the players and real fans a rest from all the bitterness feuding ala Doncaster infighting.