saint1977

Sums up football and it's stupidity. We moan (rightly) about the lack of action taken by Governing bodies on appalling racism in Spanish Football (and sport generally) yet when a suitably harsh and just punishment is meted out at long last, people moan as it disrupts their travel plans! I can understand the timing isn't great but why not just let the Liverpool fans in and keep the Atletico fans out - would be a weird situation. I suppose it would be risky as Atletico's thugs would be out en masse ready to have a pop at the scousers'.

2 pints of awful beer in the King Alfred before the Norwich game earlier this year. Would have gone to the Guide Dog but it was a midweek game so didn't have a lot of time after getting off of the train.

Can't see it myself and it's not going to be done via internet rumours anyway. If anything ever happens, we'll find out soon enough.

Crikey - a Daily Mail article I agree with! I think Saint Clark makes a valuable point though, the fans of the other big clubs need little excuse to turn on an opposite number wearing an England jersey - remember the Liverpool sick chanting about David Beckham's young son quite a few years ago? If England played a friendly at SMS and Defoe missed a sitter, he would probably get some stick, club rivalries die hard. Cole is overrated IMO, Bridge would probably be first pick if he hadn't had the worst game I've ever seen him play V Croatia in McClaren's last game (mind you, he wasn't the only one that awful night, Carson will never make a worse mistake in his whole career).

Totally agree and SFC have made a good mark-up traditionally on non-football items on matchdays. We're in mid-October and soon people will be buying XMAS presents which could bring extra revenue if people are at SMS on a Saturday. I think Dubai Phil hit the nail on the head a few weeks ago, the club have given up on gate revenue and it's all about matching lower overheads to the bank's targets. I think that even with the global financial crisis, the club is potentially very attractive - modern stadium, good fanbase if slightly up and down, Staplewood and a good brand that needs modest investment - but it's a question as ever of how they untangle the web of share proxies, there's too many people to deal with.

It's interesting, Boyd's situation reminds me of Robert Earnshaw a bit. Two players that on paper at least should be getting in their respective club and international sides yet managers never seem to be satisfied with them or want more of an overall contribution. I think Earnshaw's had similar bust-ups with the Welsh management as well although I don't think he's gone as far as Boyd has. Paul Parry of Cardiff did recently though. Makes you wonder what the managers' see behind the scenes or at training that fans or pundits don't.

There is a lot of truth in that and Lowe was the main culprit, along with the players, for relegation. We ****ed away a lot of winnable home games in autumn 2004 and by 2005, had most of the big sides still to visit. However, we wouldn't have lasted long without sorting out the tangled shareholdings which have seemingly blocked investors - not the tyre-kicking LLS variety in the last couple of years but I'm going back even to Sanderson's interest in the mid-90s and what I believe was a very real prospect from Sir David Frost. That isn't Lowe's fault but Askham, Wiseman and Richard's. We're also forgetting how Roman "I'm big mates with Putin" Abramovich has skewed English football so badly, the money was silly before he came but that ****** destroyed English football and it was a disaster the day he arrived. The purchase of Wayne Bridge started to weaken the links between team and fans IMO although Rupert had no choice as Wayne wanted to go and with Le Saux's wages paid, it was effectively £11m+

That reminds me, I wonder if Alpine ever got his "Hone soap on a rope" for XMAS last year?

Was just going to say, he's been one of their key players over the last 3 years or so and one of England's too. Mourinho was a bit suspicious of him but even Jose had him as an automatic pick before Putin's buddy gave him him the sack.

Very accurate and I particularly agree with the last sentence but we could have been relegated a few times in the 90s, not least 95/96 when a Niall Quinn effort hitting the bar and not going in was the difference between us being at SMS now and probably being in League 2 (or worse) now at the Dell, which would be a real health and safety hazard in the year 2008 had we not moved! Nevertheless, all the boards - Lowe with his silly experiments in 05/06 when the only aim should have been promotion, Wilde's overspend in 06/07 and Crouch signing cheques like Euell's that he really shouldn't have done post-parachute money - have made a pig's ear of it since we went down. When you consider how much we've brought in for players sales too, it is disgraceful and really poor management. I'd also like to ask Wilde why we couldn't get investment before the credit crunch hit (06/07) when we had a strong squad and were a good prospect. Was it the share tangle set up by Guy Askham - so do we need to go back to the mid-90s? Who knows, I'm going to log off and have a pint.

Scudamore mate, I don't have a view on who is right or wrong out you and Alpine and he can get up people's noses at times but can we make a point without using the word cancer? Not getting at you personally but I'm sure Seve Ballesteros's family would struggle to see a football club's woes as the same level of importance as the survival of a great human being.

I don't think the economy and ticket prices should be overlooked though. I'm not saying they are the only factor, SFC has been a tangled web in the last few years but £24-26 a ticket for walk-up fans is too much and needs reducing. The early bird ST renewals have been good value but I wouldn't mind if the walk-up price took a cut if it got fans back into SMS, I don't agree with David Luker. Even Newcastle, who have had full houses for at least 15 years, haven't filled SJP this year. Football is not immune from economic circumstances, West Ham are going to be in awful trouble if they don't get a white knight in the nest few weeks but they probably will being a London club sadly. Imagine if we could get £17-18 walk-up tickets before XMAS, a few pints of German lager in the XMAS market in the city centre beforehand - come on people, that's got to be a good excuse to escape being dragged around West Quay with the other half?

That is a really good point. I don't want to open up the old Saints Trust chesnut again but if as as supporters we could have a dialogue with the board on the issue, it might bear some fruit. Even if the walk-up price was reduced to £18/19, that might tempt a few more in.

A sobering thought.

A crapload on wages Corp is the answer, they had by far the biggest wagebill at that level. How many other clubs, apart from Boro, could have brought Merson and Festa on £20k a week in the second tier. He does create a good party but watch out Corp for when it's over - he might have taken Bournemouth to what was the CCC but look where they are now because they've never recovered from the debt and also West Ham were left in a terrible hole with the Rio money squandered and had something like the 4th biggest wage bill in the PL. Enjoy AC Milan but do expect a difficult few years coming up after because Harry won't take any of the blame when you're lumbered with dinosaurs on gigantic wages. I'd say Harry was a bit like Kevin Keegan but with less scruples.

Fair play WS, you are one of the posters I respect most on here. Granted, my views are quite different from yours and say Nick H but the point is that I always feel like you and Nick are Saints fans like me first and foremost and you can have a debate but not feel like you are tangling with an opposition fan and at the end of the day we are on the same side. Wish that I could say that about more of the posters on here. I don't see you as someone that would post sensationalist stuff on here and that's probably why Drew's folks trust you. Anyway, players aren't daft, they know that any of what they say will be on fans' websites and picked up on by the papers who trawl these things in two seconds flat. Don't let the barstewards get you down!

It would still be a % fraction too many but I believe it to be more than that. Askham's relevance is that he's holding one of the main proxies together and has also been a regular visitor to SMS for the first time in years. I think you'll find he's got more involved again. Even if Wilde hasn't lost a pile I don't see anything in your arguments that suggests he can move SFC forward as the major shareholder.

1970s - so that I could be at Wembley in 1976 (I was born the year after) plus the music was great. I'd also probably go for a meal at the revolving restaurant at the top of the Post Office Tower before the IRA started blowing chunks out of it. The downsides would however be: - 3 day week - Flared trousers - Only being able to drink keg beer in pubs

Men do quite often get an awful deal out of divorce and not much better from the family courts either. About time the courts took a hard line on mothers that do not stick to access agreements (including prison) but pigs might fly while we have arch-feminists like Harriet Harman in Government.

I'm getting married in March but no kids as yet. All I can say is to wish you all the best, do keep the contact with your kids though as it keeps the trust as they get older. Sounds like you're well off away from your ex though, let the new bloke get done over by her. There's plenty of lovely women out there with a good heart that will treat you better than she did.

No offence intended but a bit simplistic perhaps, I think Phil may have hit the nail on the head, gates are almost now an irrelevant part of the game. It's all about assets and preferred creditors now. We're stuck really - Askham as non-fan will just squeeze what he can out of SFC on top of his already obscene profits and Wilde is in a real hole, he can't just write off what he's invested in his shares - GM has posted previously that a number of Wilde's interests allegedly aren't going so hot. I'll keep going but until we see the back of Wilde and Askham, I don't see why people should spend even more (and £26 is a lot on a walk-up ticket for an U19 side in a downturn period) on proven failures like Guy and Mike. Something has to give by May, that is the only fact we can probably all agree on.

Good initial post and even better follow-up Phil and I wouldn't mind betting it's quite close to the mark. Let's face it, there's hardly been any (at all) OS articles yelling "get behind the team" or any attempt to attract extra walk-up beyond STs so you may well be correct. I do share your concern about staying in the division though, what happens I wonder if the white knight doesn't arrive in the New Year or Askham and Wilde (the main players let's face it) hold their proxies together and ask for money no-one would pay? - would the bank force them out? Interesting idea though to look at it from Barclays' perspective.

Good to see you post Minty. It's interesting that the managers that have got the squad fittest have got the best starts (WGS and Hoddle), Bally had an average side but MLT in his wonderful pomp. JP's not done too badly considering he's got the toughest gig out of all of those names but we should be playing more appropriate defenders for the CCC and James at right-back is a joke. James will be a good midfielder though and that's a position JP needs to sort. Mills is doing well for one so young though. Not sure why we signed Pekhart AND Robertson when one of the loans should have been a full-back.

Some fair points here but what would help him most is having a right-back that is professional football standard next to him. Lloyd James is a decent MIDFIELDER but not a right-back or a full-back, he should not be playing at right-back and even with the financial problems, the club have no excuses for doing so. Teams have worked out our right-hand side is weak and load up accordingly.

Happy birthday Steve, have a beer for me!