saint1977

Have to agree Bungle, I'm not convinced the Tories would have a clue what action to take in this crisis. I'm not exactly overwhelmed by cutting VAT either, I too would have cut income tax but as I'm getting married next year, 2.5% adds up on the bigger value items so not all bad news! The biggest thing that would help the economy is to use our leverage on the banks to make them act responsibly towards small businesses, unlike the 1990s when overdrafts vanished overnight. They are up to their old tricks again despite their gross incompetence worldwide getting us into this mess - some of my friends with their own businesses are getting stung with bigger overdraft charges over a certain amount. Still, the cheating cvunts have done themselves in by giving out so many loans (fixed term) which might mean small businesses aren't as badly hit as the early 90s (hopefully).

Crikey, my family live in that neck of the woods. I can remember of couple of blokes in their late 40s/50s fighting over a woman about 10 years ago but that's about it and I've been there a lot over the years!

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Also, although businesses will theoretically gain from their supplies attracting 2.5% less VAT (which is quite significant), if businesses are in VAT arrears surely some would tempted to reduce their arrears to HMRC and therefore the interest surcharges that they are paying? In which case, bad businesses are propped up at the taxpayers' expense because the net VAT yield is less (hitting public services) but there is no guarantee that they will feel proportional benefit as consumers. Businesses which have been run well could gain but they would have to sell in bulk (and lose some margin) to be able to attract a public that has lost confidence in the banking system and is more likely to save. Oh well, I suppose XMAS might give the idea a kick-start but at present I'm not totally convinced it'll work.

Without getting into party politics, which I can't say I'm too aligned to (I'm more of an interested observer), I'm not sure how cutting VAT by 2.5% is going to do a lot. I see that the NI rises aren't until 2011....

Because they destroyed us at SMS last season and it was one of the worst ever home performances I've ever seen. That's coming from someone who's been going since Lawrie's first spell. Beating them tommorrow night might erase those memories although Euell will probably never forget it!

Looking at Chez's summary, Burley doesn't come out of it very well IMO.

The academy was £3-4m p.a to run the year we went down - I know that, and we are talking pre-SCW too. It's the goose that has laid some wonderful golden eggs but it has come at a price and lately we haven't been looking after the goose properly and that will lead to no more golden eggs in the future if we are not careful. I'm an academy supporter but do be aware that it doesn't come cheap.

Sadly this is probably nearer the truth.

God, I so want you to be right Weston, I really really do. Trouble is, Rasiak's been injured at Watford and hasn't shone when fit - hope Roeder still rates him at Norwich. John to Bristol City might be a goer if we can agree with Johnson on the wages and don't know about Saga. Dyer for Robertson is looking likely. Would that be enough though? Davis and Skacel I think we'll try and offload but again, wages are an issue with Rudi.

I don't like Lowe either Stanley but these posts are winding people up on here and I can see why. I've moaned at some of the Lowe supporters on the other thread for daft posts so I'm going to be consistent. They might not agree with our view but they are still fans. VAT won't make a huge amount of difference IMO if cut - you only pay out what you bring in that is VAT-attractable. It might as someone pointed out above make the club some money on transfers but in terms of gates and merchandise it should be a zero-sum game. It probably slightly helps us the fans if anything for buying XMAS presents! A lot of lower league clubs are in significant VAT arrears and there also long been the suspicion that a number of clubs under-declare their gate receipts - I don't think Saints would ever stoop to this for a moment. HMRC are reluctant to go for winding up orders as football clubs have not-for-profit status for the most part but if they feel a board of directors has reneged to their staged repayments, they will go for it eventually. I've not heard them mentioned in relation to SFC as a significant creditor as yet although that's not to say the club don't owe them money.

Hit.Nail.On.Head. This is why I respect Lowe far more than I'll ever respect Mike Wilde. I don't like Lowe but Wilde really does hide when the going gets tough.

Spot on, as long as the offers are decent, that is true. What the board need to do is hold the line with the bank far enough so that we remain competitive whilst continuing to reduce our outgoings. There is something that you are all missing though - the academy. It's brought through some fantastic players but has also increased the overheads substantially. It probably takes the best part of £5-7m p.a to run, maybe more, yet we are barely able to service it. I'm a supporter of the academy but the Bank might not be in the short-term - at it's current size. Water it down any more though and you only have a Centre of Excellence - no more Bales or Surmans or Lallanas can be attracted then. People have to realise that it isn't just transfer dealings and paying off the huge turnover of managers and coaches that have made the club unsustainable.

A sensible post and sums up my final thought on this thread. Can't stand Lowe but can't comtemplate EVER wanting Saints to lose.

The point is DBS that in any walk of life, people can and do disagree. Personally, I'm not in the boycott camp but some of those "meatheads" have put a lot of money into SFC over 20,30,40 and in some cases 50+ years. Where would the club be without that? Probably extinct already. This is a stressful, emotive and turbulent time to be a Saints fan, some of the arguments on here but also in the stands at games I've been at sadden me greatly as we all stuck together and got behind the club as we fought to hang on the PL during the 1990s so SMS could be built. Now that spirit is moribund for a variety of reasons, not just Rupert Lowe. We're all fans at the end of the day so we can disagree but let's show each other a little respect?

Some common sense at last. This is the current position, my point is that it is FACTUALLY inaccurate to blame fans for this mess. Bad decisions have been made by every board 2003 onwards yet none of those sitting on them have ever taken responsibility.

You are one who is pathetic. I'm going to the games AND oppose Lowe so that's your easy category neatly knackered then. As for "meathead", I am University of London educated with a Chartered Postgraduate year so wrong on that too I'm afraid. Please try harder. This does not excuse the Execs or Crouch not doing their job properly in 07/08 or the splurge on 06/07, not in any way shape or form. I'm just sick of Lowe's PR companies coming on here and telling us how none of this is his fault - well, he was in charge in 05/06 and we leaked like a sieve then as well. Wilde is the worst culprit though, he has been at the centre of all of it although I see Rupert's mobile PR machine has tried to claim elsewhere on the thread on that Mike "was pushed off" by "fans on the board". Spin and fabrication. Wilde was pushed off as he didn't deliver on promised investment and pushed off by Execs WILDE appointed. This subject was always going to be emotive but let's at least use some facts and cut out some of the personal stuff eh folks? Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view it doesn't make them a neanderthal or a lesser being. Look at the divisions on this board and can you still tell me Rupert being in the frontline helps the club?

Read the e-mail John and you'll see that I'm not but you have to recognise - and if you do have access to board members please feel free to point this out - that Rupert is genuinely hated by a majority of fans, not me as I hate very few people and certainly no-one in football but his active presence is counter-productive to progress. He could still influence in a background way via the more sensible Cowen but chooses not to. The statement on the fans even you have to admit John was not neccessary when fan-club relations are at an all-time low (no pun intended). I will be there again tommorrow for Plymouth by the way.

Totally agree and we have been unstable for years in that department. Have to say though that we brought plenty of youngsters through in the 1980s and it didn't do us any harm when we paired them with older heads. They were our best ever teams come to think of it. A bit of modest investment helped then and is needed again.

Superb hit by Flintoff, had to laugh at the ball hitting the roof fascia and those are huge stands in Bangalore as well! Well done to Freddy and Shah who played particularly well but little contribution from Bell yet again. Anderson struggles in ODIs unless it's a green pitch in England or NZ, he really bowled junk yesterday and gave the batters too much to do. Broad is inconsistent but worth sticking with and lovely delivery to get rid of Sachin. Better performance IMO but I'd like to have seen more warm-up games so that this was England's starting point to improve from, not adjusting to conditions when the series has already been lost. Still, the Stanford farce saw to that.

and badly run also by Lowe in 2005/6 when we didn't know where the "next penny is coming from" - this came from Lowe and Cowen. We couldn't afford the upgrades to the academy and the SCW upheavals, plus the payoffs to Clifford etc and it wasted the first parachute season. Hence why our overheads are so sky high folks, we cannot afford an academy costing several million pounds p.a. That's not excusing the madness of 2007/8 at all - we should have offloaded the bigger earners then and restricted the damage so the Execs and then Leon do have to take a lot of the blame for that. I just won't listen to these one-sided accounts and re-writing of history by Lowe's PR Companies on here - the fans know the truth. Who appointed the Execs by the way Solent Stars? That's right - Mike Wilde. Let's see the PR boys wriggle out of that one! No, didn't think you could. Rupert's fans - please also tell me why he needs to have a pop at the fans in the statement if he is such a unifying figure? Is this good business sense when gates have slumped? Also, whilst I may still be a regular at SMS, there are a lot of ex-STs of many years that don't go any more and gates are still down 6-8k on last year for even the least attractive games. Is that a lunatic fringe Mr Lowe? To paraphrase the banner at Villa Park in O'Leary's time - "We're not fickle (Rupert/O'Leary), we just don't like you".

Judging by Jones's comments on the financials we won't be. FFS, why if Lowe and Wilde rate these youngsters so highly don't they invest a little bit to keep them together?

I have criticised Lowe, Wilde and Askham a lot on here so I'll be even-handed and say that Leon shouldn't have signed this if true. Euell is another deal I wish we hadn't done as well. Haven't been well run by either Rupert or Leon or the Execs since 2004 have we? The one constant for most of this time? - Mike Wilde. Draw your own conclusions.

Kick the Ball clear? Powell's feet are like 50p pieces. Don't even get me started on his heading ability, Aeroflot are better in the air than Powell.

Whoever wrote that at Derby has to be a Press Officer who knows nowt about football. Powell is a heap of steaming turd, someone said above that he's good at breaking arms and cheekbones, the only breakages he caused playing for us were his own. Burley should be shot for giving him a year extension. If Powell plays when Derby come to SMS, even with the remainder of kids that we haven't sold off I'd still fancy getting a result. I used to rate Paul Jewell at Wigan but he's signed some real tat for Derby - Savage and Robert on big wages, Powell and a whole host of other garbage.