RobM

I agree on some points. Firstly, if we are in as much financial trouble as is reported, we need to cash in on our assets to raise the much needed funds for clearing debt. So we sell players, right? No, we loan them....? It's clear they have no future at the club, so why mess around with loans? If the finances aren't so critical, why not raise cash from player sales to be re-invested in the team? I don't understand these loans. Secondly, I agree that short-term financial views have the potential to cause medium or long-term problems. Playing devils advocate... perhaps their is an argument that loaning our players helps in the short term by reducing outgoings but keeps an asset on our books that can be sold to raise money in the future? January perhaps? Who knows. But what I don't agree with is writing off our season so early. I also don't agree with your views on David McG. If a player doesn't perform, I have no problem with them being criticised. I can even understand people not liking those hit-and-miss players. But McG has scored what, 6 goals in 4 games? What more can he do? What more do you expect from a striker, if scoring goals regularly is not enough? And granted, we lost out first game, but that's one game. We won our next game against a decent team full of confidence. If we are 10 games in and things are looking bad, by all means ask about Plan B. But please, give it a chance first!

Have you not considered waiting to see what happens with Plan A first of all? Alpine, you may some really good comments sometimes and then go and **** it up with stupid threads like this. We have played one game in the CCC and one cup game, with one win and one loss, yet you're already looking to the failure of Plan A. Be a fan!

I guess it was somewhat inevitable that a young team managed by a manager with no previous CCC experience would take some time to adjust and find the right balance. What is encouraging though is JP doesn't seem afraid of admitting something is wrong and changing it. By the sounds of last night, he tried something in the first half, it didn't work, so he changed it around and it worked much better. Hopefully this lesson will be taken into the next game and we will be better. If this story continues, with us improving with each game, we could see some huge improvements after the first 8-10 games. I'm not so sure that our previous manager thought the same as this, insisting instead on sticking with the same crap or changing EVERYTHING with no real logic. It's a nice change

I hope so. Let's be honest, love him or hate him we know that Lowe wants everything and wants to spend nothing to get it. So if he can make the most of decent loan deals from Prem clubs, I'd be surprised if he turned it down.

I shant quote the entire post of yours, Wes, since it's getting a tad long! But it's good to see we agree on some aspects, it's also good to see somebody willing to debate things properly without getting childish (something I can be guilty of, I know...) Anyhow... I guess my red and white tinted glasses and eternal optimism do play a big part in the way I see things, but at the same time I'm all for calling a spade a spade. I've never been a big Lowe fan, but equally I've never been a fan of judging the work he does on his personality. Would I buy him a pint and sit and talk to him? No. But so long as he does the right thing for 'my' club, I don't care what he's like as a man. Football chairmen aren't there to be liked, hatred is a part of the job description! I agree with you that we should have kept Pearson, the type of man who this club has been crying out for for some years. But, and I've made a thread about this in the past, I do believe that Lowe bringing in 'his men' in the form of JP and Co could be a very good thing, as Lowe is much more likely to back and support his men than somebody he inherited or was pressured into appointing. All of this is Lowe's work and as we know all too well, his ego will want to see this work so he can say I told you so. That's fine with me, so long as it works. I'm prepared to give all this time, I really am. If we end up in the middle of the table this year but have shown clear signs of improvement, a change in attitude and direction and it is clear we are moving forward, I'm happy. But I expect to see further improvement the next season, the season after that and so on. That's what rebuilding is about, IMO. Consistent improvement rather than overnight miracles. That said, if Lowe or anybody else doesn't consistently perform for this club, I'll be first in line to say so. To answer your point about investment, of course I know nothing about whether our White Night is around the corner or not. I hope so, but you can't build or run any business around wishes, hopes and dreams. We are in a bad financial mess, so the important thing is to get us out of that so we don't have to rely on investment. The flip side of that is a solid financial footing will, hopefully, make us more attractive to investors. Win-Win Another thing you touched on is the split fan base regarding the board. Ironically, I think Lowe may have fixed this. Lowe is back, Lowe is back doing what Lowe wants to do and Lowe isn't going to let anybody else get in his way. Like it or not (probably not...) this is where we are and I think most fans realise this. There isn't another option (save for that White Night) so there is nothing to argue about. If nothing else, that's made this forum a nicer place to spend time As said, I do wear red and white tinted glasses and I am an optimist... so the way I see it is we can support the club the best we can and hope for the best... or *****, moan, complain and protest. One way sounds a lot more enjoyable than the other to me!

Oh, and Wes, just on the subject of my reply to Pongo, please have a read through his other posts and you may see why I posted what I did. Comments such as "As expected our squad is utter ****e." and "League 1 beckons" may help you understand why I believe Pongo's opinion is we are already relegated

I take it you missed the first three words of my post then? More than happy to debate it. Firstly, by support I mean everyone involved supporting the cause. I mean the board not sacking the management after a run of bad games, I mean the fans giving this new way of thinking a chance and I mean everybody realising that we are in trouble and there is no overnight fix. It will take time. Secondly, you seem to have made the assumption that the ONLY way to rebuild a club is with masses of money. That's not true. We wouldn't be the first and certainly wont be the last club in financial problems who need to find a way of improving without a millionaire behind the scenes. Over the last few seasons we have had a squad assembled of some good players, but a much higher proportion that I'd like were journeymen and the managers mates. This has sadly been the case for quite some time, certainly since our relegation season. These players didn't really care what happens to our club, they can always move on if things go wrong. The manager didn't discipline, the board were never in place long enough to learn peoples names and the fans grew frustrated and many lost the love they once had for the club. Because of this we have been slipping further down the league every season... from relegation to the Prem, to near relegation from the CCC last season. To rebuild, without money, we needed a new direction. Some clever thinking, perhaps. So what do you do if you can't go out and spend money to solve a problem....? You work with what you have and make the best of it. What's one of our biggest strengths at Southampton? The Academy. Now take a look at what we are doing this season, we have a board that has a clear idea of their intended direction, we have a manager who wants to build a team around youth players and well chosen older, wiser heads (i.e. two experienced pros at CB and a bench containing wise heads capable of providing leadership, like Wotton), we have young players who are playing for Southampton FC because they WANT to, because they want to be playing football and they believe in what they are doing. That, to me, sounds like a good rebuilding plan. We aren't going to be saved by some mystical White Night with a big bag 'o dosh. So we are working with what we have. To reply to a point you made about filling the stadium... you claim this wont help rebuild the club. I believe you're wrong. Filling the stadium is our best hope of raising money, other than player trading. By doing this week in, week out, we give the club an increased revenue stream that can be put towards anything we need. That may be investment in the academy, it might be clearing our financial problems, it might be used to attract better players with the temptation of a decent wage, it might be used for many other things I've not thought of. But one things for certain... all of this goes towards rebuilding Southampton FC. Getting rid of debt, creating a good team and a good squad and giving the fans what they want is exactly the right thing to aim for. If our league position at the end of this season is notably better than last season and we have been more consistent in winning games and picking up points, this plan will be proven to work. You also claim that if we have some serious injuries we are in bigtime trouble. I agree with this, in some positions. So how do you raise money to fund investment in the squad? As above... fill the stadium. Oh, and buy a pie when you're there!

Yes, of course. I never said this was our season, or we would 'walk this league', did I? No What I said, was this season feels different. Lots of changes have been made, there is less in-fighting and everything is more positive than at the start of the last couple of seasons. I think this is the start of something, not the end of something. Given time and support, this could be the start of a massive rebuilding of Southampton FC. But people like you, Pongo, will never understand that, will always look on the dark side, aren't willing to give things time and aren't worth trying to have a good debate with. For you, judging by the tone of your post, the season is already over and we're already relegated.

Time to put the price up. One of the most pathetic threads in a long, long time. Idiot.

Threw the game away? Or conceded a dubious goal from a set-piece?

This is a novelty... a substitution at a sensible time in the game, not so late the man coming on can't make a difference!

Sky aren't neutral though, there has been some very well documented links between Sky Sports and Saints in the past. Even aside from Saints, they can be very biased towards certain teams or people.

You're still posting here though! And I bet you still read this site when you've used your 3 posts. You'll pay, you know you will :butthead:

It's shocking. Even Tesco wanted to charge me for my shopping the other day, and the AA wouldn't come out and fix my car for free. And don't even get me started on road tax....

Perfect, love it! Time will tell I suppose, but at least this is exciting

As a Saints supporter, I've been through many new seasons. Many new managers. Many changes to players at the start of a new season. Many troubled times. Many promising times. Many unknown, worrying times.... But something feels different today. Like a total fresh start, a breath of fresh air almost. There is no boardroom unrest, everyone is pulling in the same direction (whether it's the right one or not remains to be seen), everyone is committed and saying the right things and it just feels different, like no other start to the season I've experienced before. Last season was important, but it was the same old thing as we went through the season before that. And even when new managers have come in, everything else has stayed the same. This time everything has changed. Not just the people, but the vision and direction. It's odd... but I like it

Are you saying then, that if I sign up and pay my tenner, I have the control and power to change the direction of the ST and change the way the ST operates? I've put my case for not giving them my money, I believe the ST is arrogant and achieves little more than making Saints fans look bad. I think the fact that some of the key people behind the ST when it started now have nothing to do with it speaks volumes. Incidentally, those who have left are the ones I have the most respect for. Not because they left the ST, but just the way they put their opinions across.

I'm right behind you, in the 'ashamed to agree with Scooby' line The ST have done nothing other than put out the occasional pompus statement. Anybody with any power or responsiblity at St.Marys that takes notice of these amatures should be sacked. But so long as they don't claim to represent the fans or anybody other than themselves, they can do what they wish and if people want to give their hard earned money away to them, that's their call. Personally I'd rather give my money to a more deserving cause... Cancer Research, RSPCA, NSPCC, Oxfam etc etc

It's odd really, as all we have had is a couple of rumours and a bit of paper talk suggesting he has been given a pay-as-you-play deal. You'd have thouhgt that if this were true, the OS would be shouting about it due to the amount of interest in him.

For Saints, no. Have you? Experienced head, proven leader, just what you need as a captain IMO!

Hopefully killer if he remains fit, with one of the older heads standing in for him otherwise. Wotton would be a good shout IMO

DITTO. I also think that those shocked teams will respond by kicking the shi* out of our younger, lighter players. How those players cope with that will determine how our season will pan-out, IMO. Think back to Dyer and how he has got on in this league. It was a tough split between superb running, control and making big, bruiser defenders look stupid... and running into a brick wall or being kicked into row Z. Every team knows what we're up to, they know to expect fast paced, counter-attacking. They also know that a swift kick in the shins will make a younger or weaker player think twice before taking them on next time. If our guys can find a way of dealing with this and don't get scared, we are in for one heck of a season. If not... *gulp*

Good effort guys! More than happy to pay the fiver, no problem contributing to something I use a lot, no problem at all It's a simple choice really... if you want to use all the features on this forum, you pay for it. If you don't, there are other free forums to join