Polaroid Saint

Ambition is the last refuge of the failure.

It may be purely coincidental, but I believe both Taider and Bertrand were on that list and have been for some time. Whether they were initially targeted as purchases or loans, I cannot say, but I am aware the club has been keen on both players for a while. I have no idea of any others on Les's List (other than Ings of course). Dunno. Perhaps you are speaking to the wrong people? Everyone I speak to 'IRL' seems satisfied enough. Although, admittedly, most people I talk to are emotionally stable and reasonably intelligent. The difference between 'supporters' and 'fanatics'? Pretty much everyone on here is the later, but those not panicking too much (the 'satisfied') have more of the former about them.

There are two ways to run an EPL team. Overspend in an attempt to win matches in order to survive, make a small loss, maybe a small profit some years if you get lucky with a player sale. Lower wages. Risk relegation. Overspend in attempt to win titles or cups, make a large loss, offset against large debt or charge to club owners/'investors', maybe some profit from player sales but usually not. Higher wages. Top Six place. Exceptions and Not: No real advantage to being a yo-yo club, spend the parachute payments getting back up and not always guaranteed. Further boost this year to payments might make it easier to come straight back up though. Arsenal: maintain competitiveness at the top table without actually winning titles, made small operating profit but still not too much considering turnover and global profile. Wenger has scrapped both of his personal wage cap and transfer cap policies in last couple of seasons though. ManUre: operating profit, but still large background debt, Fwrgie managed to win so much for so little outlay thanks to the Giggs/Scholes/Neville/Beckham generation. And now, Saints are one of a number of clubs that see a proper academy system might provide a different approach. Market forces show cheap talented youngsters will outperform expensive experienced players 'pound for pound'. It is a way to survive with some success AND make a small profit. This is the system that Southampton FC has been building for some time and other clubs globally have proved it can work (Ajax etc), right back to Rupert Lowe RIP. This was still being built and improved on whilst Cortese was also building his European Dream. A dream that was only possible in the 'Overspend Wildly' model. This was great while it lasted and maybe if Marcus had seen our rise to the top table of English football he would have thrown his billions behind it. Who knows? That was the thing with Cortese ; for all his supposed business brilliance and bullishness he was just a goon. Our goon, when he was here, yes, in fact a really top notch and effective one, but a goon nonetheless.

I agree with the sentiment, but really most football clubs do NOT exist to make money, they exist to survive and, if they can, win football matches. If most clubs were really about making money then they would not overspend on players, coaches and other efforts to be more successful on the pitch. This is why you might find profit at the least successful clubs (in the few millions) but not at the top clubs, which all overspend in the tens of millions each year to chase success. A profit of 1m on a 100m turnover business is not all that amazing and comes at a price on the pitch (lesser wages, lesser players, less points). Arsenal and Man Utd (under Fergie) are exceptions. But Wenger has done it (make profit year on year) at the expense of winning anything (but possibly long term - stadium etc). Fergie did it with a great youth policy, but of course ManUre is several hundred thousand pounds in debt too. So, yes, football is a different ball game, but football clubs do/can NOT exist to make money. They exist to win games or survive. Winning games costs money, alas it doesn't earn enough to offset the costs.

This is impossible!!! I live for my music; like others have said, I cannot pick just five albums! But, let's try, Here are five albums I could not exist without. Billy Bragg - Back To Basics (double LP of life's a riot... and brewing up...) LCD Soundsystem - LCD Soundsystem Bright Eyes - I'm Wide Awake It's Morning Dan le Sac versus Scroobius Pip - Logic Of Chance Beta Band - The Three E.P.s Just missing out (could all be top five tomorrow) Carter USM - 30 Something Gallows - Orchestra Of Wolves Inspiral Carpets - Beast Inside Bran Van 3000 - Glee Echo and The Bunnymen - Crocodiles Frank Turner - Love, Ire and Song The Pogues - If I Should Fall From Grace With God Leonard Cohe.... .....Arghhhhh. This is toooo hard. I need about a dozen fake logins to come back and do my list in full.

Some cracking records mentioned already. Not a duff one amongst them (although personally not a fan of Radiohead!) Fav mentions so far include Rattus Norvegicus (bloody love the Stranglers), Marquee Moon (learnt to play electric guitar off that!) and Different Class (fell in love to that!).

Scrapping transfer fees entirely would be a good start. Clubs can then get the benefit of the sponsorship payouts (mostly Sky for EPL) and can choose how to invest in a market driven by player wages, rather than speculative and subjective 'valuations' at time of sale. This may still result in clubs overspending to their detriment but will also allow clubs to explore other means in order to compete (I.e. Academies). Basic Freedom Of Movement, innit? Football Clubs, like all other organisations, cannot legally 'own' player (worker), so the whole thing is already built on sand. Scrap transfer fees altogether, scrap the transfer window altogether too - as it creates an artificial market and is also, technically, illegal. Yes there are caveats and 'special circumstance' but like much of legislation in the world, these seem to be able to be either invoked or ignored to suit. Agreements can be made in a normal employment contract in regard to professional development and something akin to intellectual property laws to protect both employer and employee, without creating an artificial 'honour system' (artificial in that it is nonsystematic and dishonourable!). Great thread. I will enjoy reading it and everyone's thoughts, ideas and arguments when I get back from work (yeah, I do work sometimes). And then hopefully I can add more than this two penneth worth.

I did like that bit Pap, I have to admit! Sums it up nicely, I've been using the x-factor analogy but rich Spouse is better! Cheers David, yes, I quite agree; special circumstances n all that; but only in the players favour isn't it? A club cannot force a player (employee) to work beyond their will?! I thought the article/blog was decent enough, just felt it ignored these (in my view) prescient points a bit too willfully in order to 'blame' Southampton at the end.

Meh! It's alright for a piece of amateur blogging. I personally would have likde someone to have proof read it at least once before it was published. Would also have been a good idea for the author to research the legalities (or otherwise) of football player contracts. The entire piece builds to suggest that if Southampton FC had only enforced those contracts then players would not leave. This is simply not true, however the last par states: "But, should the widespread belief that they’ll be part of the relegation dogfight in 2014/15 come to pass, they’ve nobody to blame but themselves for not enforcing the contracts they had the likes of Lovren and Schneiderlin sign." The 'rules' regarding football transfers, contracts and player 'ownership' are just that RULES within the game and are superseded by both UK and EU Law. I mean good article n all that, but clearly not the best informed in regard to employment law (neither am I but I know this much!!!).

Never understood why the Spiderman theme-choon hasn't been used for Morgan. If Homer Simpson can do it for a pig, surely we can for a player?!

Not sure about the song, but I like the new nickname: Dusan 'The Denigrator' Tadic

All a bit mental but thoroughly intriguing (I like it). In your scenario, the FA Cup/League Cup winners would have to play a lot less games to get into a parallel league to the one for League winners, is that right? Seems to me that would not be very popular with the Premier League!

At Chelsea? Few. But that's well known - they have a fantastic youth (kids and schools groups) set up across the entire south east, but for the senior squad they focus on purchases and WAGES to win. Very difficult for them to make the gamble of turning to their academy, and why should they? Wages win matches and Chelsea are one of a few clubs that can pay a squad of 20plus players an average of 90k a week (the first team averages around 120k) this gives their current manager the pick of the worlds best. Why bother giving youth a chance? Other managers might (Di Mateo did as he knew the youth players) but they tend to get sacked!

Love it. Let's hope Supermarket FC have a no-returns policy: "I am so sorry Madam but if you let your shiny new left back get fat, that is not covered by the warranty" "Oh no sir, that particular model of centre back is not suitable for use in the Americas anymore after they were recalled earlier this year" "Yes Mr Rogers, you always pay the higher fee on a BOGOF offer"

Mirror saying Pochettino wants Bertrand... http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/mauricio-pochettino-haunt-southampton-again-3633022 Full Disclosure: careful lads and lasses; the story is TWO months old! Transfer Rumours eh? What fun!

Been chatting all morning with a very savvy Chelsea fan and he would agree that Bertrand has limitations but also thinks he has as just as much in his locker as Shaw (from what he has seen). He has the attacking qualities of Shaw, or maybe more like classic Cole, crossing is good but is a beat-yer-man-first type (unlike Shaw, who can whip it around almost magically, sigh). But yes, can be a bit hasty playing out of defence, "Doesn't like to stand around" was the direct quote (I have been told to write that), basically a cracking defender of breakaway attacks, but can look a little static if he is too deep, and excellent in attack but maybe needs to pick his head up a bit and play the ball a bit brighter in midfield. Hopefully (for him, us and even Chelsea) all quite coach-able by Koeman.

See the below posts. In was being generous as said a Change Of Playing Style, but Windows has it right too. Farming out VERY good players on Loan is a Chelsea (and recently ManCiteh) speciality. They don't always make sense. See Lukaku on loan last seaaon whilst Torres was still being sh!te.

I think Cole outplayed himself in the 2012/13 season, where Ryan was beginning to get a look in under Di Meteo (sometimes as a midfielder?) can't remember if Benitez rated him or not, sorry, and then Mourihno has played RightBack Azpillicueta as LeftBack (somewhat bizarrely, but hey, he does seem to known his stuff ☺ ). Aside from that I'd say Bertrand has come close, a virus kept both him and cCashley out of the first team a bit too and the style changed under Mourihno. Honestly, I dont think Ryan was good enough last year to help Chelsea's cause when he had a fully competitive Cashley ahead of him as the backup LB (yep, Cole - last season - was IMO as good if not better than Shaw, yet still not good enough for Chelsea or England. Yeah right!) Oh yeah, did you watch the 2012 Champions League Final? Ryan Bertrand was more than an adequate relief! I think, as has been mentioned, Chelsea see a loan out as a good way to keep tabs on a (often homegrown) player before either cashing in on him or giving him a shot at the first team. See Lukaku - better than Torres surely, but finally offloaded for 28m: even Chelsea are a selling club! or our own Jack Cork. Cork nowhere near the Chelsea team thanks to Lampard et al But who would you want NOW?

Can we give some credit, as I believe it is due, to Les Reed and the 'football school' at Saints for this 'signing'? I know that all depends on whether you think its a good signing or not, however... ..Bertrand has been on our radar for some time; pretty sure he was one of those three or four unnamed players mentioned by Reed as a key target (you know the statement that was supposedly all lies?!).

And here I was thinking it is 'trendy' to say Shaw is the greatest LB the country has ever seen. Let's be honest with ourselves shall we? Shaw has had a cracking season (and I will missed bellowing Luuuuuuuke at him) but Ryan Bertrand has been, until last year, regularly quoted by 'those in the know' (coaches, england setup, Chelsea staff) has being the natural successor to Cashley. Sure, he (RB) might have had a virus which kept him out and found himself third choice at CFC thanks to Mourihno playing a RightBack at Left Back; but I believe we have made something of a coup with this signing.

Fonte was the better 'Team CB' last season IMHO. CB I know that it is all about communication... ...Lovren may well have a better natural footballing talent, I know he has a cracking tackle and header and charges out to clear things; but Fonte was able to 'let him go' and drop. When Lovren played with A.N.Other we lost shape. When Fonte played with an other we held our shape. FFS Jos and Maya were actually a better combo in terms of team shape than Lovren + one!!! Fonte is class, which is permanent, Lovren had good form last season... ...we shall see!

Not sure why everyone gets hung up on this 'proven in the premiership' thing. A few years ago maybe, but not now, not for me anyway. Saints did alright with an entire team unproven in the premiership two seasons back (except Davis)! A team that has played a bit together and gelled, THAT is another matter, and I accept that as an issue. But 'proven in the prem'? A fallacy these days: five or six Championship squads (plus Celtic) could compete (for survival admittedly) but compete they would, in the EPL. This time last year (before a stunning year for Shaw and a poor one for Bertrand) mist people in football (outside staplewood) would have said RB was a much better prospect.

Obligatory quote from Chelsea supporting friend. This guy bleeds football and I thoroughly trust his opinion on a player (but then again, so do some of us and look at the cr*p and ill formed opinions we have sometimes): "He is quite good. Quick and good in the tackle. Not really good enough for us yet though. Still do think, considering it was his champs league debut, he was motm in the final." Given that Saints have something of a track record with LB it could be a great deal around; we know pace is important to Koeman and maybe the Saints LB finishing school can do its job.

! :-) !

From some of the rumours over the last year, one might be unkind enough to suggest he would quite enjoy that! :-o