VectisSaint

Just a minor footnote, but Davies has yet to play a game for Stoke. I assume that is because he has not yet recovered from injury (I could be wrong), if so he would not have played for us either, thus making his contribution somewhat similar to that of Pulis at Saints Not only that but we would have been paying his wages and his medical bills up to now (perhaps we actually still are, given he hasn't played, and some folks think that Stoke are still paying for Pulis). I agree though we should not have sold him.

Lee was marvelous? Did he actually make a save (he got in the way for the second pen and I could have saved the first with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back). I look past the score and am just thankful that Watford decided at half-time that they had taken the **** enough in our goal area and would sit back and take the 3 points. If they had wanted to they could have had half a dozen. They were quite frankly the worst team I have seen (ever), excluding Saints today of course. Even if we had scored the 2 pens anyone who would have been talking about promotion this season would have been confined to the funny farm.

Just got back after a 150 mile round trip to watch a load of garbage, and Saints were even worse. What has happened to the team I love and have supported for over 40 years. This is shameful. How can any team miss 2 penalties. At least Wotton's attempt was reasonable, McG must have struck just about worst penalty ever, even the 3 kids at half-time made better attempts (indeed I think the girl would probably have not looked out of place in the team today). Our players are too weak, too easily knocked off the ball. Watford knew how to destroy them today, and frankly didn't even break sweat. They were gifted 3 goals by our excuse for a defence. Why play Wotton and Ollie at the back when Perry, a proper CB is on the bench, Perry at CB and Wotton in MF and we may have had some spine. We look too slow, we are not good at passing to our own players, and we are completely ineffective up front - indeed blaming the defence is all well and good, but even if they had kept a clean sheet the best we could have hoped for would have been a 0-0 draw. I really do dread to think what will happen when we play a good side, it will go one of two ways I suppose, Sheff Utd will either tear us apart or we will step up and atually give a good performance, sadly I suspect the former is more likely. I don't think Jan knows what he is doing either. His general demeanour is awful, standing hands in pockets, with no ideas of subs. We were crying out for a change at HT or just after, at least going for a win could have raised the spirits a bit. But we did not try to change things until Peckhardt came on with 10 to go, too late Jan. His post-match interview as well spoke volumes, a man in despair, with no ideas, just hope. Out of his depth with a bunch of kids who desparately need a strong leader before their confidence is completely destroyed. Still, to be positive, I did at least see some talent out there today. Impressed with Smith, especially in the 2nd half (when I could see him better). Cork, Surman and Lallana are also clearly gifted players, just hope they don't suffer too much from having their confidence destroyed by this hopeless regime. I was also impressed by Mills, but he needs to bulk up a bit, too lightweight, but I think one day he will be a good LB. It was a bit sad being on my own today, couldn't persuade anyone else to go with me, but in the end glad it was just me that witnessed the shambles, I may have put others off for life. It might be a while before I go back, and I think there are several thousand others there today who will feel the same. I guess as well there will be a few less there next game as our stewards seemed to be excelling at expelling our own supporters this afternoon, I don't know if they get a bonus for each supporter they eject but they do seem to relish it - there probably weren't that many in fiarness but the game was so dull I got more enjoyment watching the antics.

Sorry, but I was talking to AwaySaint1, not you, I'm sure he is big enough to speak for himself. But you have simply confirmed my belief and the belief of many others that this so-called boycott is something that is on such a small scale as to be largely irrelevant. If you are boycotting, I have a great deal of respect for your opinion, if that principle is fully held. I guess in the (very unlikely) event that we were to get a good cup run or start climbing the league in the near future that you and 'er indoors won't set foot in SMS if Lowe is still around. Well bravo, I admire your principles. I haven't been to a game yet this season, but I am not boycotting, and I'm planning to go tomorrow despite the cost etc. I hate Lowe with a vengeance but it will not stop me going to see Saints when I can, and as I have been doing for 42 years. By the way I totally agree with you about this nonsens related to the credit crunch. The credit crunch has not really affected many people anywhere, let alone in Southampton, one of the most affluent areas of the country. If people complained about high fuel costs etc then that could be a valid argument for those who do not live relatively close to the ground, but that is nothing to do with the credit crunch. The credit crunch may well become a factor in the next few weeks/months as people begin to lose their jobs etc., and then we'll see a real downturn in attendances. I stand by what I said, even if perhaps I did not say it quite as precisely as I might, there is one overriding reason for falling attendances at home and that is the results over the long term. I'll concede happily that there are other minor factors as well, but nothing like this real reason. Peace and love

So you think "finalised his move to the South Coast" means he hasn't contacted Pickfords for his house move? I think thats a rather obtuse view of what "finalised his move" means to most football people, where this would imply that the contractual terms have not been formalised. But no matter, I doubt we will ever seem him actually play in the first team.

Think you would do better looking at results for Norwich and/or Derby

This is an odd statement. Compare this with the Player profile on the OS that states "Anthony Pulis joined Southampton on 29th August 2008 on a free transfer having penned a two year contract with an option for a third" Its difficult to know these days who to believe.

BBC have it on their sports pages as Norwich v Derby.

Agreed, but it really has not been significant to many ordinary folks until very recently, I suspect it really isn't a factor for many even now. Petrol prices would be a bigger factor to many (me included, or diesel to be precise) but that is nothing to do with the credit crunch. It may already be a factor, but its a very small factor in the grander scheme of things. It wasn't me anyway that said it was a factor, it was Wilde who referred to it, that is what I was referring to when I said it was laughable, for that idiot to suggest it is an important factor is a complete joke. He continues to ignore the main point, that attendances fall and will continue to fall while we fail to consistently win at home - yet I remember his rallying call a couple of years back imploring us to make SMS a fortress. The main factor is the success on the field (or the lack of it) principally at home. It started last season when average attendances were down, and has been compounded this season.

Sorry, so if we add 5 to the attendances that will make the difference will it? Grow up. The fact that you and 4 others are boycotting doesn't make my assertions incorrect. In practice there are very few actually boycotting because of Lowe/Wilde in the real world. Most are just sick of seeing a team fail to win at home week after week.

Correct, our attendances last season were down on the one before I believe.

Spot on. To blame our reduced attendances on the credit crunch is quite frankly laughable. Most people had not even heard of the credit crunch until a couple of weeks or so ago. The credit crunch has hit very few people so far, just wait till it really does and see what happens to attendances then. Low attendances are down to one factor only (sorry to disappoint the boycott jonnys), its a lack of success on the pitch at St Marys. Win games at home = attract supporters, simple formula.

So no Centre Forward and no Centre Half, speaks volumes really

Ah, the Windows Platform Group

Try reading posts in context (perhaps referring back to the posts that are quoted). We were discussing whether or not there was anything official said about the compensation of the various parties, and a certain poster said there was nothing, when clearly there was. Do I believe what the OS says, no of course I don't, thats the whole point, the compensation issue was a smokescreen by Lowe, an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. The real reason was always that NP was not Lowe's appointee, and he could not stomach having to work with someone he could not manipulate as he desired. But rather than say something honest like "we wanted the coaching team that we believed would do the job" they had to peddle lies/half-truths about financial reasons. I think I am very REAL, perhaps you should try getting REAL yourself

I know the OS is usually a wast of space, but a quick check there will find that your question is answered, of course you would have known to look under "Gasmi almost ready" article http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10717 Still no mention of Thomas, has he left? Gasmi still has no squad profile and therefore number Pulis still has no squad number

It may not say he was sacked just because of his salary, but the OS states quite clearly (see link below, paragrgaph 4) that one of the reasons for the change was the financial situation and that the combined salary of JP and Wotte was lower than Pearson. So it is quite clear that this was a factor. But the point is that no-one really believes that NP was more expensive than JP and MW combined, that is the spin which upsets everyone. In fact it would appear that even the OS suggests that if JP and MW were successful that they would actually cost more because of the incentive scheme (lower basic but better incentives). http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10167 Didn't see the other reference above when I posted, but I think this is an even better source as it was a news item released to the OS, presumably with RL's approval, whereas the other reference is a brief history written by one of the OS hacks, and probably not scrutinised in the same way. Either way RaWA was completely mistaken.

I don't think there is any debate about NP being a bootboy, the only one that ever makes such dispariging remarks is Scooby and we all know what he is. But to come back to the hypothetical argument, I suspect NP would be doing rather better than JP. NP was a coach with a strong reputation for working with youth,as witnessed by his involvement with the England set up at every level up to and including u21. I think even with a similar squad of players NP would probably have got us a couple or so more points, can't be proven but that would be my thoughts. The difference between NP and JP is that NP had so many contacts in the game in this country, that he would probably have wheeled and dealed the transfer/loan market a little more effectively than JP, and would have perhaps brought in one or two players with experience to give the team a better balance (after all he was instrumental in bringing in Perry and was almost certainly involved with Holmes as well). He would still have played a large number of the youngsters though. The other thing I am certain NP would have done was upped the fitness levels, in much the same way that WGS did, pre-season. We may not have been playing quite such pretty football, but anyone who thinks NP is a hoofball merchant clearly does not know much about football. All in all its hypothetical, we are where we are, and JP has proved to be much better than I hoped, but he has still shown a certain amount of naiveity. The nonsense about NP being more expensive that JP and Wotte is just that, nonsense, spin from Lowe via the OS. Maybe marginally he was more expensive, but nothing thats worth changing manager for. The real reason as most people know is that Lowe wanted his own man, and depsite what I think of Lowe I don't blame him for that, just wish he would be more honest and not treat his customers as idiots.

I never said the Final was silly and pointless, those are your words made up because you can't read and misinterpret what you thought you were reading. But if you think it would have been silly and pointless thats up to you. Fact remains however that we didn't reach the final, we were knocked out by bad luck before that. Too many people seem to forget this, and seem to want to rewrite history by thinking because we lost to Derby in the semis that we would have won the final. Maybe we would have and maybe we wouldn't, who knows.

People still don't get it about Burley do they (1) Burley only ever looked good when he had Snodin as assistant (2) Beating Derby would not have gained us promotion, it would only have taken us to the play-off final (which would have been nice and better than losing to Derby)

It makes our strikers look good as well, even BWP can score against our defenders from a corner LOL

OK, forgot he was on loan, not purchase (though I think its a loan with option to buy). But anyway, you sort of answered my point that there is no basis for this rumour, only that it was somewhere on a forum. Believe it or not, forums are not official, nor are they often accurate (witness this one). My opinion is that this is an unsubstantiated rumour, nothing more, made up in the absence of any facts in an attempt to justify that this guy has been with the Club for over 5 weeks now and has not even been seen at SMS, and does not even appear to be in the squad (no picture, no number). It really does make you wonder whether we have signed him or not, after all there was no need to complete a loan on transfer deadline day.

As a MF so would I, but the thread is about African Centre Backs. Actually I would have Pele back as a CB, but he doesn't fit into the sterotype that the OP was portraying. I still think he was a cultured CB, more in the Claus role than the Killer role, and alongside the right partner (a big bruising CB) he would have been a top player. Trouble was our dozy coaches thought the two of them could play together...

On the other hand as we don't actually have a game to sell tickets for for nearly 2 weeks it probably is about the best time to do it (assuming for some reason it couldn't be done during the close season).

One word, Pele