VectisSaint

Unfortunately the whole premise of your post is based on fiction not fact. The season does not end here, we have another half season to go. We could of course have another half season where the results end up exactly the same, the likelihood of that is remote to say the least. History and form, and informed opinion would suggest that at least one of the Clubs in the bottom three will improve sufficiently over the second half of the season to escape the drop. It has been clear in the last few games that Forest and Doncaster are both showing signs of improvement. However, Charlton are the most likely to escape, bearing in mind that they do at least still have parachute payments to help them in the January transfer window. Of course, you can argue quite legitimately that Saints can also improve. I agree. But it is unlikely while we still have JP in charge, since he has shown no signs yet of understanding what it takes to regularly win games in this division, or even win at all (almost) at home. Nice bloke, completely out of his depth. As well as that, we are almost guaranteed to lose at least one of our better players in January for financial reasons, and in addition most of our loans come to an end. There is a way for our situation to be changed, but it requires Lowe to accept that he has made a mistake in his appointment of JP and his much-hailed experiment. Past experience suggests that hell will freeze over before Lowe admits he was wrong. There you have the nub of the problem, we could improve even with th existing players given a proper manager, but we will not while Lowe is around, and Lowe is not about to walk out. hence the negativity. At least one of Charlton, Forest or Donny will not be relegated this season, I will almost guarantee. On the other point that you made, "Lowe is our best option", how so? Why do you imagine that the people who are almost entirely responsible for our financial mess, namely Wilde and Lowe, are the best options to get us out of this mess? In any other walk of life, you do not entrust a rescue to the same people who caused the problem in the first place. We had a better option, namely Lee Hoos with the backing of Leon Crouch. This team had already put in place some of the financial changes that Lowe now claims were his ideas (closing the corners, reducing transport costs, loaning out high earners Rasiak and Skacel). They had also put in place a young British manager, much respected in this country (by football people) for his abilities to work with young players together with a dollop of experience and no money. The pair of them (Hoos and Pearson) seem to be doing quite well at Leicester so far, despite everone thinking that Mad Milan would have sacked them by now, after all with your thinking if the season ended now they would be champions of League One and be guaranteed to be playing in the CCC next season, which is more than canbe said for Saints. So please don't trot out this continued nonsense that Lowe is the best option. It is clear that if Wilde had a spine and could have buried the hatchet with Crouch for the good of the club, as he has done with Lowe, that Crouch and Hoos could have been backed by Wilde and, with the backing of the bank which they had, would probably have had us slightly higher in the League than the curent regime has managed with basically the same players, the difference being that NP would get more out of the current squad than JP is able to do so.

We are good when we are 2 or 3 down. Thats reasonably simple to understand. The opposition take their foot off the gas, and let us play, sit back and counter attack. Sometimes it makes us look very good, and we do indeed have a rousing comeback. Occassionally the opposition get so nervous they collapse a la Preston. But its no good waiting until the game has got away from us. We have to be good from the start, as we somehow managed to be at Reading. JP has no idea why this is, and is not able to motivate the players to play well from the off, that is why he is out of his depth, and why a different manager would be able to get more out of this squad. We are clearly not crap, we just lack someone decent to motivate and manage the team.

:weedman::weedman: I'll have some of that weed, man

Nice bloke, but not suited to the job, don't blame him, blame Lowe, but in the end I have no confidence that he can turn this around, never have, never will.

But that is patently rubbish, our only home-grown players are Surman, Lallana and James, and Surman is experienced enough to be in any team. I don't count McG (Notts County transfer) or BWP, and all the others are loans or experienced pros. People fall for the spin time and again. We are crap because Lowe put an inexperienced coach in charge of these lads when an experienced one that knows and understands the CCC is what is really needed. I din't blame JP, he is part of the cause, but while he is in charge we will not succeed.

Absolute twaddle. We have no money, boo hoo, lets just accept us being crap. We have no money so lets employ a no-hope coach, when we could get someone who can get these youngsters playing well. But no, Lowe and the poddle couldn't do that. I really detest the people who think we could not do better with what we have, we could if we had a proper manager!!! FFS people start to see what is happening and that we can do better.

Hammill? Don't remember the legendary goals Oh you must mean that other guy, don't remember his name, foreign sounding, thought he was mainly more central, playing behind the strikers. I think the obvious candidate is Terry Paine, having discounted Paul Telfer and Fabrice The trouble is the different formations played over the years. If you are talking an out and out winger (the original #7) then it has to be Paine. But in a 4-4-2, I'm not so sure, would Steve Williams fit there, or would he be better in CM? Anyway I will go with Terry. There are certain players for SFC over the years that have to be included, whatever position, Paine, Channon, Davies, Ball, Tiss.

Lowey, Wildey, Ottery, Ponty. Irony

I thought this was good news until I actually read the article. While still good news, it actually says he wants to stay "a bit longer", not that he wants to stay at Saints long term. So some good news, he is prepared to stay and fight to the end of the season, but nothing to suggest he sees Saints as a long term option.

His loan deal ends before the game anyway I believe as does Cork's. So either they won'be here, or a new deal till the end of the season will have been agreed.

Don't worry we won't be playing many of the team on show tonight. It will be their reserves against our youth

50 years ago we were in the 3rd Division (not 3rd Division South, this was the first year after the regionals were scrapped). We were being managed by Ted Bates, and we had Derek Reeves banging in goals for fun. At the end of the season 59-60 we gained promotion back to Div 2, and soon after appeared in a Cup SF against Man U. Within 8 years we gained promotion to the top flight. Quite honestly 50 years ago things were actually looking very bright and little did we know how good things were going to get just around the corner.

I'll repeat my point from yesterday. This idea that this is a team of Saints youngsters just starting out is patently nonsense. There are only 3 players in the regular starting line-up that are effectively in their first season and are Saints players, James, Lallana and McG. Even with these Lallana and McG made appearances last season, and McG is 21, not a real youngster. All the other youngsters are loans, and probably will not be with us for much longer. This team will not be kept together, however much you wish for it, even if Lowe somehow miraculously hangs on to Lallana and Surman in January. So whats to be patient about, we will not see this team develop, what we will see unless things are changed soon is League 1. We have a coach who has no idea how to change tactics to suit opponents or changes during a game (like Burley but in a totally different way), we have no cutting edge and a frail defence and thankfully a keeper who is working miracles this season. We have players on our books who could help to change this. If just one of John, Saga or Rasiak were actually playing for us instead of for our rivals (in 2 cases) we would have more chance of scoring, and perhaps helping McG to be a better player, and hence we could actually be thinking about survival this season. Make no mistake, we may be 4 points above the drop zone, but 2 of the 3 below us are improving, and the other has parachute payments that will help them strengthen in January to avoid the drop. We have time to stop the rot, but in Lowe we do not have the inclination.

I deleted your guesses of incomes because it is just that. The bit I wanted to highlight was the bit about pearson working with the kids. Pearson is very experienced working with the kids, actually much more so than JP. Please check out NP's credentials working with the England youth set ups, he has worked with England at every age group, up to and including u21. He is highly regarded in this area, and that is what really ****es people off who know his background. He was the absolutely ideal man for the job, working on small budgets, understanding the English game, great working with kids, winning mentality, and a young(ish) English manager. But RL had to have his experiment, and couldn't work with someone he had not appointed, so we got a 3rd rate Dutch lower league coach with no experience of the English game, and no real experience of how to work with kids in a competitive environment.

The problem is that he has shown flashes in the past, and it has gone to his head. He has been bigged up by the Club, making out he is some sort of superstar, and like many other youngsters he has taken his eye off th ball, donned the flashy boots and thought he had it made, job done. Sadly our wonderful coaching set up that is so experienced working with young players don't see this and continue to make him an automatic choice, instead of taking him aside, giving him a right bollocking and dropping him to the reserves for a while until he gets a sense of perspective.

I think you may be right with the first part of your statement, unlike the second part where you are so wide of the mark it is untrue. Sadly, McG could become a good player. What he needs is a coach that understands how he could become a good player, to play in a system that suits his style, and to play alongside an experienced player who can take some of the heat off him and help him score goals. He will get none of that at Southampton under the present regime. Meanwhile we have to put up with his ego, and with him being played continually even though he is playing poorly, and if we soldier on with him regardless as seems to be the plan, we plummet to League 1. For another player that has no loyalty to us, and is strictly not a product of our youth system I don't see why we persist. Finally, he also needs an enormous kick up his lardy arse before he fritters away a promising career.

In short "we're crap", there thats even shorter than your "in short".

On the other hand the latter 3 are all able to score goals, which in turn changes draws into wins and defeats into draws, so lets say one of them cost 8k (and I 'm not sure I believe your maths), an increase in 1000 through the gates (modest, since a few wins would probably bring back 2-3k) would more than pay for at least one of them to be here. sadly the plank is unable to see things that way.

I would guess that we would have about 20 serious applications to take the job on. There are many good young managers out there looking for an opportunity like Saints. They may not necessarily know what they are letting themselves in for, but I don't seriously believe there would be any shortage of applicants for the job. Just hope against hope that Lowe doesn't make his usual mistake and promote from within. I hear that theres an irish bloke keane to get back into management (I know I'm joking, would be great fun to see Roy and Rupert head to head though)

At start of season I thought relegation was quite likely. But that was before I really understood JP and his tactical ability. Now I think relegation is nailed-on. UNLESS, something is doen pdq to replace a 3rd rate coach who has no idea how to manage a team in the CC (cue pathetic replies about us having no money so he's the best we can afford ****** rubbish)

Bugger everything else, I want us to beat Forest because I hate them. I hate them for being our bogey team in the late 70s/80s, and beating us twice at Wembley. Oh and 3 points would be nice

Jonah, thanks for clarifying, once I had picked my way through your bile your answers were just what I was looking for in my original post. I have been given options many times as incentives in my business, sad really that I have never been able to exercise one due to the continued decline of the share price, if only business had boomed I would be quids in now

Thing is, we were actually playing only 4 of our own youngsters last night, and thats counting Surman, who is 21 or so I believe. There are other youngsters in the team but they are loans, so we are gaining nothing from it. The youngest player on the pitch last night was playing for Palace. Palace had three of their academy youngsters on the pitch, all playing effectively. Difference is Warnock understands how to use the young guys effectively, blending them into a team with some experience. The crap that is being talked about by the club about blooding our youngsters as the future of the club is just that, crap. On close inspection we are only really blooding 3 true SFC youngsters, Lallana, James and McG. The other youngsters that are in the team are loans and so are being used because they are cheap, not becauise they are young. Incidentally the remark of the inpexperienced JP last night that older players such as Euell are not on the same wavelength speasks volumes for how out of his depth JP really is. If he really believes that why did he use Euell in the 3 games up to and including his sending-off? He demonstrated in those 1 and 2-bit games that he formed an effective partnership up front. Blaming Euell for not being on the same wavelength of the kids is a total joke. Problem is no-one is on the same wavelength of the ego that is McG.

I know, I just wanted to say something controversial I don't really think its the answer. Although actually, Hoddle has been a failure recently, as I have said many many times in the past, he is a failure when he is not working with Gorman. They only work effectively as a partnership.

You can only create chances for strikers if they are prepared to work, and get into positions where they can make a difference. McG and Robertson had no idea what do last night, how to work the channels, how to get in behind the defenders. Thats what makes it look as though the MF were not creative. Poor, totally ineffective strikers will make MF look poor. No point having wingers crossing from the byline when we have two powder puffs up front.