revolution saint

This is ridiculous and beside the point. Atheism actually isn't about believing in "nothing" anyway. It's about believing in science and what can be proved and disproved, about testing statements for validity. Why is it that we can have tolerate people believing that the world was created in seven days, that evolution doesn't exist, that jesus was risen from the dead, that he created water from wine and other miracles and yet the moment people say "actually that's a bit far fetched and I don't believe it" people get worked up? If I'm being honest then the whole idea of religion seems far fetched and ridiculous. If people choose to believe it then fine but is it so wrong to suggest an altogether more plausible assessment? Anyway, getting back to the point this is about toleration and it seems that Christians are far less tolerant than their precious bible teaches them to be.

There you go, intolerance to another point of view in a single sentence. If only it were as simple as films yet as far as I'm aware no one has justified a war or jihad in the name of "Iron Man" or "Star Wars". Not believing in a supreme creator is as equally valid as choosing to believe in one. Why should atheists be denied free speech when it comes to denying the existence of "god"?

So if I formed an advertising campaign to promote the idea that a teapot circled the earth and that teapot is the one true god, though we should call him Trevor, then that would be OK? After all I'm promoting the idea of something? But if someone promotes the idea of "No God" then that's antagonistic and argumentative? Hmmm, that makes sense.

But it's not reasonable to refuse to drive a bus just because you disagree with what's written on it. The slogan was a legitimate point of view and he's not being asked to endorse any view contrary to his beliefs. Everyone has to do things in their job they disagree with. I work for the government and don't particularly like the conservatives - can I refuse to work for them if they are elected? When I worked behind the bar I had to listen to people spout the most outrageous twaddle - could I refuse to serve them just because I disagreed with them?

I wouldn't pretend to like it but I'd still do the job. Interesting you draw a parallel with the BNP and atheism though. Is atheism as abhorrent as the BNP for Christians? Or is it a question of degree. To further your example would it be OK to not drive a bus with Conservative Party advertisements if you were a Labour Party member? Could you refuse to drive the bus if you particularly dislike a film that was being advertised on it? Thing is the bus company says it doesn't endorse any of the adverts on it's bus and neither do it's employees. In this case no one is suggesting the bus driver is supporting atheistic beliefs by driving it but by refusing to drive it (unless another isn't available) the bus driver is displaying intolerance for the atheistic point of view. To take your example of the BNP - yes, I fundamentally disagree with them but I do respect their right to hold their views and beliefs (as long as those views remain within the law). It's up to people to make compelling counter arguments and not flat out refuse to listen to those views. My point exactly.

Yes I'm aware of that, as probably most people are. I'm not sure what your point is?

No, he's not particularly reasonable at all. He'll only drive a bus with the advert on if there's no other available. Well how very gracious of him. I'm sure we could all learn a lesson off him eh? What he's displaying is religious intolerance for any view counter to his own.

No complaining except for the guy who walked out then? What's he doing if not complaining?

Any views? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm Personally it's live and let live with me but imagine the outcry if atheists decided to boycott Christmas, Easter and any other religious festival/slogan etc. I have to confess I quite like the idea of challenging the idea of god...seems like religious types can tolerate the idea of other faiths but not the idea that there may not actually be a god. Discuss.

Branfoot for me. We had a decent squad, played good football and he ruined it. I've no doubt he was well meaning but his football philosophy produced the worst football I've seen. It was terrible. Look at the squad he inherited - it was a very good one. Think about if he'd kept Case instead of getting rid because he was perceived to be a threat and how on earth could he drop Le Tissier? I don't blame him for the sale of Shearer because that was always on the cards but buying Speedie and Dixon? About the only thing in his credit is buying Ken Monkou.

5 episodes in on series 1 of The Wire and the sodding DVD player packs up! It's good so far though. I got it on based on recommendations (and the lack of decent ideas for a christmas present for me) and it hasn't disappointed. It's good in that it doesn't go for the easy crime drama cliches and is still very very good.

Or you could read this http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/programs/atmosphere-energy/climate-change/ten-myths.html - you won't like the answer either. Let's be honest though - we could trade websites forever and it won't change anything. You can argue about the cause I guess but no one is disputing that it's actually happening. You'll probably find a website to blame Obama though right?

Bloody joke, that's what it is. Matt Smith????????? What a rubbish choice.

I read "Unforgivable Blackness" a couple of years ago and it's a biography of Johnson. He really should have been heavyweight champion long before he did but many white fighters refused to box him. As social history it's pretty good too - he couldn't travel across state lines with a white woman. It's true he's a flawed character but he was also someone who stuck two fingers up to the establishment and did exactly as he pleased despite the massive prejudice he faced. Incidentally by the time he fought for the title Jefferies was a washed up drunk who needed the money - he wouldn't fight Johnson in his prime because he (Johnson) was a negro.

Ha ha, another thread on how it's the fans fault we're in this predicament (be that die hard STH or plastics). That's ********. Fans don't pick the team, don't play and don't pick the manager either. Fans support their team for entertainment and enjoyment - I didn't see any of that on offer yesterday. As for STH's having a laugh at "plastic fan" expense. That's fine - I thought it was funny. Frankly though it's a pretty poor state of affairs when one section of the crowd has only the point of being "better" fans than the others to sing about. I'd rather they had a decent performance to cheer but sadly they didn't.

Cheers Pancake, What prize do I get for getting all of round 12 correct?

I've just re-read his speech too. I'm not going to call him a racist - he's careful enough to argue against all immigration. I would call his argument fundamentally flawed though but that's with the benefit of hindsight. I guess Michael Howard and Portillo would also disagree on the benefits of allowing immigration too.....

Cheers Sister! I'll get to work on a 5 year plan....everyone needs a five year plan.

I'm not a tree hugger, I'm a commie. Can Commies join?

Finish on 23rd and back on the 5th Jan. Have to use 4 days leave for that though.

This is the best way and sensible way to do it. Incidentally when's the best day to take a sickie? You'll need to consider it's got to be at least 3 days duration to make it worthwhile and realistic. Monday is too obvious despite the benefit of not looking like you're coming down with something on previous days. Personally I'm swayed by going off on Friday and then taking Monday and Tuesday off. Sick days that straddle a weekend have the bonus of being the best days of the week with new added authenticity!

I don't expect a win every week but maybe a bit more than we're averaging at the moment! This season has been my worst for attendance for nearly twenty years (for a variety of reasons) but the two times I've been we've played well. We haven't won them though. I always used to say I'd rather see a good team play exciting football but lose than a boring team draw but there are limits. Anyway, honestly? No, none of the players that might return would tempt me back unless we start climbing the league a bit or more importantly scoring goals. I think I'd be happier if we lost 3-4 than what's happening at the moment. I wish I could remember the last time I saw a saints goal (actually I can, it was against Birmingham). That's my view from the armchair...cue the abuse!

Since when has winning the majority vote bothered republicans? Wasn't much of an impediment in 2000 was it?

I saw two shooting stars last night, I wished on them but they were only satellites, it's wrong to wish on space hardware...... Sorry couldn't resist.

And branfoot had to be the only manager to be booed by his own fans before a cup final. ah the football was crap back then.....but at least we won some games.