Charlie Wayman

If players are 'getting away with it' in terms of work ethic then it is because Martin is getting too close to his players. There always needs to be distance and respect between management and employees, they cannot be best buddies. With all the cuddling and chuminess that goes on with Martin it is maybe not surprising that the players are starting to feel too comfortable with him around and taking the piss.

Top two sounds good but is not an automatic right and on the evidence of yesterday we are million miles away from being the irresistible force in this league. It will take time to build and settle the team whether we like to hear that or not. Although Wilcox and RM echo the SR mantra of promotion this year and whilst that certainly will be the ambition of several clubs including ours you have to question whether they really believe ("bet your house on it "level) that it's possible first time around with all the changes that have taken place. If it's a one year project then fine but the odds are that they know and as some of us sense that it will take a little longer than that. People don't always want to handle the truth, to paraphrase Jack Nicholson So No, RM will not be going anywhere this side of Christmas, as not being in the top two by then will not be regarded in any way, shape or form as an abysmal failure. That's why all of us should avoid ill thought through criticism so early in the season. Realism must temper optimism without pessimism!

We can see where this is heading but people need to be patient. First of all stop listening to the bullsh*t that we have the best squad of players in the league. We don't. We may have one or two gems and a few really promising prospects but the majority are at best average Championship players. There is a lot of work to do at the individual level to bring the best out of each player assuming they are all capable of taking the messages and coaching on-board and have the skills to apply those principles routinely day-to-day. Secondly, if there really is a definable system of play behind Martin's rhetoric it will take months to drill it into the heads of individual players and even longer to establish a best XI and hone it into an effective whole. So expect the period up to Christmas to be a bit hit and miss, probably more miss than hit. Yesterday was clearly a big miss, some of our results so far have been borderline but we have yet to see a big hit. It serves no useful purpose to ignite the blame game seconds after the result at the Stadium of Light - incidentally that should apply to Mr Martin as well, the players he has are only as good as the coaching they receive so he shouldn't really stand there after the match and imply an us and them responsibility.

Honeymoon over Russ! Welcome to the real world of football. Did we create one real chaance? If you think Smallbone / Armstrong is a better choice than Charles / Alcaraz in midfield then you deserve all you get. We were over-run in midfield and that's why. Poor old Baz will get the blame on here of course.

Alcaraz must start and not Adams. With you except AA up top and Alcaraz midfield or even possibly vice versa.

Come on Martin, KWP has proved beyond doubt his loyalty and commitment to the Club. Fantastic player and a decent man. Name him Captain today!

Everything is about transition. It will be good to have the older players around as the young blood settles down and gains consistency. Stephens is not a fool, he knows the Captaincy will not grant him a free pass to automatic starter.

This one is down to Wilcox. Why Man City are prepared to let him go and why Burnley haven't pursued him as they did Tella remain open questions. His England credentials are bound to promote optimism as indeed they do for Holgate. Wouldn't it be fantastic if these two develop into an irresistible partnership that also one day represents England at senior level. That's what dreams are made of, COYS

Yeah but looked what happened with Tella. Dangerous precedent.

Harry_SFC may have put his finger on it, our valuation of these players is probably far higher than other clubs want to pay. All of these players were part of the team that finished bottom of the PL last season so inevitably they will be seen as having some responsibility for that and therefore as damaged goods. So it is doubtful that any of them will be recruited this late in the window as first choice for their position by any PL club. If they were really wanted one can assume that their transfers would have gone through long ago. Interested clubs might take one or two of them as last minute panic buys as back-ups but that comes with a lower price ticket. If Saints dig in and stick to their own valuations then the transfers won't happen.

Please be more concise, nobody has time to read this amount of speculation.

I tend to agree with you; not deluding myself into thinking that our best interests are in safe hands. The whole bunch of them were out at Totton t'other night casting an eye over the U21's no doubt working out how much they could get for Dibling & Ballard before the window closes

Seeing as nobody was really interested in him, what other options did he have? He's no JWP and will struggle to get a starting place with Downes, Charles, 2 x Armstrongs and Alacaraz around. Maybe he can play full back?

Its a shame this thread has salivated at the scuttlebuck instead of focusing on Saints Women's table topping 4-0 demolition of Lewes.

Maybe take a look at the bottom of this year's PL table for guidance

Before you hail the arrival of the new Messi, most of Downes passes were short and safe, square and back.

Let's hope Saints have inserted a sell-on clause for Tella. If he has a successful season with BL and scores 15 goals, he will be hailed as the next Jude B Bellingham and the big clubs will be in for him. Start the bidding at £60m with Arsenal & Chelsea interested…. We need a share of that! On a different note, seems RM's optimism of players changing their minds about leaving since the changeover of coaching staff and style of play was a bit premature. As far as can be told only Stuart Armstrong & KWP might be in that group but judging by his post match hand shakes all round on Saturday, my suspicion is that KWP will be off this week as well. Hmmm!

I can see a new forum whipping boy emerging here. Why do these new posters come on here to create divide and unrest where non exists.

Nothing like that in real life at St Mary's. You should try it sometime.

Lots of passing mostly sideways and zero creativity about sums up our Saints this afternoon. Still relying on moments of individual inspiration for our goals, both of which were outstanding. Also the usual stupid errors in defence and gift goals. Manning, I think shoulders the blame for today's cock-up Downes looked useful rather than talented but did what he had to do. Fraser very busy and impatient to make things happen. Good to see. Colgate seems to have lucked in with Steven's injury. The absence of Tella and Adams speaks volumes, not a trace of Perraud either who was probably on the car ferry back to France. More worryingly, at the end of the match KWP was shaking hands with everyone on the staff including the tea lady. Defo looked like a farewell. Doubt we will see him again in a Saints shirt. All in all not a brilliant display but a win's a win even if we had to dig it out rather than stroll to victory.

Of course they will be, they're still Saints players.

Don't worry Russ says he has a very good character and Russ should know 'cos he knows him and has played with him. In my book that's a recipe for him getting away with murder. Still, so long as we do not lose Tella or Edozie, welcome on board ship Ryan.

Martin has got himself on a hook by putting his name to this alleged new contract offer. Most PL clubs are not stupid, Adams was the main striker for the team that ended up bottom of the PL last season. That surely tells them something and likely giving them very serious pause for thought. For clubs likely to be in the relegation fight this season signing Adams and relying on him to come up trumps with 20 goals would be a huge gamble and it is looking increasingly unlikely that any of them are prepared to take that level of risk. If he stays, gets an attractive new contract and then ends up scoring only 5 goals all season for us then Martin's judgement will be under serious scrutiny and we could be stuck with another player that isn't good enough and nobody else wants. At least if he stays without a new contract and he doesn't deliver this season we can get rid next. Of course the new contract offer could be all bluff and bluster to pacify fans, with no new striker even on the horizon let alone heading into port.

Waiting on Martin's PC when we should get an update on Smallbone. Can't see him making the squad this week as no picture of him in training. Agree, suddenly we seem to have a plethora of promising midfield options which can only be good news for a promotion push.

He won't start Downes as he's nowhere near match fit. Food poisoning will have knocked him sideways for a couple of weeks at least. I doubt he will start Alcaraz either, still in rehab. Both will need time to get up to speed. Probably give both of them 10 minutes later on. It'll be the same midfield as last week, he won't change a winning team. 4-0 to Saints looks attainable.