Johnny Bognor

Centre for Social Justice press release.. http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/UserStorage/pdf/Press%20Releases%202016/CSJ-48_52_pressrelease.pdf

Absolutely spot on. You can't moan about the referendum not being democratic when the biggest change to our standing in the world got done by the back door. Whilst we are on the subject of democracy, you can hardly hold the EU up as a shining example either. The French and Dutch rejected what was, in essence, the Lisbon Constitution. So the EU changed a couple of paragraphs and changed the name to the Lisbon Treaty and the French and Dutch were signed up without consultation. Our demorcracy might not be perfect, but it's a damn site better than the shambles otherwise known as the EU.

Total eligible voters = 44 million https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration Don't know how you could disagree unless you are proposing that babies, toddlers and children should have the vote???

15 million of the population are under the age of 18. There is no way of telling the voting intentions of those who didn't vote. So the majority of those who were old enough to vote and wanted to express an opinion, did. That is how democracy works. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The German chap also said (in relation to hard Brexit) .... "It's better to have a hard Brexit that works than to have a fudge in the middle that has to be renegotiated or doesn't politically work and you have uncertainty lingering on," Markus Kerber of the German BDI group - the equivalent of the CBI - told the Today programme this morning. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37500140

I think you're reading it wrong... I'm not angry... far from it. I'm an optimistic and hopeful Brexiter looking forward to the future. I view the remoaners as negative and pessimistic at heart, wishing that everything will come crashing down, just so that they say I told you so. I would suggest a higher proportion of remoaners on here don't appear to be laughing at all and are in fact 'angry'. It's even been suggested that my parents were born in Portsmouth. It doesn't get lower than that and shows the desperation of remoaners to get a rise. Ironically, my mum is an Irish immigrant and my dad a northerner, although I was born in Southampton General, so I guess I am a scummer by birth.

But this chap has climbed to the very top of the career ladder... chief executive of a multi billion pound company that employs 15,000 people...., whilst your bloke has spent 25 years of his life climbing the ladder to reach the giddy heights of a project manager LOL

I guess it depends on whether you attach more credence to one of Germany's most prominent business leaders - a CEO of a company employing 15,000 people with €3 billion worth of revenues - or go on the musings of an IBM project manager (with an impressive 25 years of managing software projects) or a history graduate who has risen beyond the heights of a comments editor.... hmmm now let me think about that one for a minute.!!!

Yes Wes, but a German publisher could not possibly be more authoritative than a history graduate or an IBM project manager (of 25 years I'll have you know), therefore your post will be ignored

Errrr my point being that a leader doesn't need to have the plan detailed down to each and every specific point. Thats the job of other people in the organisation. There was no plan for remain, there was no plan for brexit. Now we know where we are, a plan can be (and is being) formulated. But I'm glad you place your faith in a very experienced IBM project manager. I guess it is a step up from a history graduate who's edited the comments section of the independent. Anyway, as for the hurdles, talk about looking for problems... It's akin to me wanting to cook a sunday roast, when the shops are shut. Here are my hurdles: 1. Can't make a roast, because the shop is shut As for your blogger mate, his issues are: 1. Can't buy potatoes because the shop is shut 2. Can't buy beef because the shop is shut 3. Can't buy parsnips because the shop is shut 4. Can't buy brussels because the shop is shut 5. Cant buy carrots becuase the shop is shut 6. Can't buy gravy because the shop is shut 7. Can't buy swede because the shop is shut 8. Can't buy cabbage because the shop is shut 9. Can't buy cauliflour because the shop is shut 10. Can't buy cheese sauce because the shop is shut.

LOL so i could have picked a better example, but the point being made remains the same. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Hmmm.... Richard Branson says, I want to offer space travel to consumers... His CTO will look at the technical requirements... His CFO will look at the cost implications... His CSO will look to draw up a strategy... His CMO will look at getting messaging and pricing right... His COO will look at the logistics involved... His CHRO will look at people requirements... ... and so on and so on. Richard Branson doesn't have a detailed plan. He doesn't need to. This is a far more realistic view of where we are ...

Have to disagree For some remainers, it was staying in the single market at all costs For some remainers, they want to be part of a federalist Europe For some socialist remainers, they see the EU as keeping tabs on the tories to hold them back from unfettered toryism For some (myself included originally), reasons included better the devil you know, play it safe, don't rock the boat etc For others, free movement between countries, cheap flights, cheap fags etc etc. The list goes on... In fact there were as many different issues for remain as there were for leave, if not more. ..

Well Brown thought he had abolished boom and bust which lefties lapped up.. and he ended up running the country... Sorry, ruining the country

LOL grammar and spelling is a nice diversion from the main points. Whilst we are on the basics, the pound fell on fears of leaving the EU. Yes exchange rates vary all the time, but the past norm doesn't really apply now. Not in the short or the medium term. The pound may fall further after article 50 is triggered. EU components are only part of the cost in building a car. The overheads do not go up, labour does not go up. A 15% corporate tax rate will help suppliers to plants. My point being is that in isolation tariffs might be an issue but the are many more things to consider. It's not as simple as your average history graduate would have you believe. .. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Errrr not all parts are imported from the EU ... But also factor in that our labour costs are also 12% cheaper relatively speaking.. offsetting much of the tarrifs element. Not to mention that a car makers general overhead in the UK is also 12% cheaper relatively speaking. .. .. add in a corporation tax rate of 15%, which has already been mooted and the change in the cost of exporting could be minimal. (Perhaps we could use the tarrifs placed on EU goods to fund a more attractive corporation tax rate ) But I guess if you get your economic advice from a history graduate that's spent most of his time editing comments in the independent, then you won't be able to look at wider economic implications... .. and there is nothing to stop us having zero tarrifs on EU automotive parts. Apart from that, you make a good point lol....

So with a 12% drop in the pound, they'll still be 2% cheaper than they were in June. Result Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

That's not total control of the EU though is it. One area of it, granted. But total in my world means everything Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Total control of what? Isn't the triggering of article 50 the veto of all vetos?

So whitey's concern that by leaving, we'll lose control is unfounded. Thought so Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Great. So can you now explain how we lose control of these things if we leave?????

That's influence. Influence (which doesn't seem to be much based on your article) is very different to control. It has been claimed that we lose control by leaving. In reality, the only 'control' we have in regards to Europe, are things we have opted out of

OK then you will be able to enlighten me as to where we have control, as suggested earlier. What specific 'control' aside from a 1/28th say in things have we lost?

Before we had control... lol... carry on taking the pills. Can you remind me what happened when the UK, France, Netherlands, Sweden and a host of other nations played the yellow card (only for the 2nd time) to block unwanted legislation?? Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

OK I do get where you're coming from... there is a 'but' after his statement. However, remainers seem to be at odds with each other. We're told that it is better to be in a club where all nations work together for the benefit of all. When brexiters cite that an undemocratic EU is controlled by non elected, corrupt politiicans and nation states have no real say or influence, we are told that the nation states do hold the real power. You seem to be intimating that it is a few fundamentalist nutjobs in fact have the real power?? If it is the nutjobs, then we are better off out as who knows where they will lead us. If it is the nutjobs, then the EU will be acting in its own self interest as opposed to the best interests of the citizens of member states. it could lead to an even greater power struggle between the EU and elected national heads of state. However, If it is the democratically elected leaders of nation states that hold the power, then we have less to worry about as it will be in their interests to strike some kind of deal and the nutjobs (who dont hold the real power according to most remainers) will have to tow the line. Perhaps a remainer can clarify where the power really lies...