dvaughanwilliams

I hope that we stay up, but I don't want the club to spend more than we can afford in the attempt. Football clubs in general get sucked into poor finances by spending next year's money this year or running a loss 'just for this season' to stay up and then end up running unsustainable losses every season. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TmWjyFaMFIEJ:www.ft.com/cms/s/0/94623760-b7af-11e0-8523-00144feabdc0.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a The link describes a game that economists play where they bid for a dollar bill. The catch is that the top 2 bidders both pay, but only the winner gets the cash. Logic makes it sensible to bid $1.01 if the current winning bid is $1, because it's only a loss of $0.01, rather than $0.99. According to the article, this can lead to stupid bids of up to $200. It's obvious that this is stupid, but where you draw the line isn't obvious: $2, $5, $50? It's easy for fans to demand that the club spend a bit too much money to stay up, running a small loss in the process. The financial failures of Portsmouth, Leeds, Saints and the massive debt in clubs like Bolton prove it's a bad policy. If running the club within its means results in relegation, so be it.

I don't think he even needs a bidder. All he needs is a couple of qualified surveyors to be able to lay out a case that supports his value of £17m. Things don't have a single, indisputable value.Imagine one of a pair of antiques is on sale. On its own worth £1k, but the pair is worth £10k. To someone who already owns the other it is worth £9k, if not only £1k. So, IF, the club were promoted to the Premier League and IF there was a Billionaire who wanted to buy the club, then the ground would be worth £17m.

The other problem is that if Birch takes the case to court and Chinny wins, with costs, then he might be able to sue PKF for inappropriate use of creditors funds.

For PKF and Birch, choosing Portpin was an easy choice. As a secured creditor, it is easy to justify the choice over the Trust. However, if Chinny is blocked from taking over by the Football League, he becomes a massive obstacle to the club's survival. Quotes from various people suggest that he remains optimistic on the valuation of his debenture, £17m now or £1m per year rent. If he can't get his money back through ownership and the Trust don't meet his valuation, he's going to be pushing very hard for liquidation, maybe after helping PKF to string things out until the next installment of the Parachute Payments.

The Football Creditors rule is a condition for being granted the Golden Share to play in the league. It does not apply in liquidation. If the club were to be liquidated Chinny and Birch get paid first. Unlikely to be anything left to pay anyone else. Also Chinny has a debenture which is a fixed and floating charge over all of the assets of the club. Admittedly, there's not much of any value except the ground.

Also love the reference to 'Nutjob-ella' I don't fancy wading back hundreds of pages, can someone explain the origins of the 'monkey-chicken petting zoo'?

More Nut Jobbery from the petition:

The fans can't sue. You have to have a financial interest to take a class action lawsuit. You also have to be in America or one of a few European countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action it doesn't apply to UK law. What grounds would it be? Being an owner who refused to fund their pet money pit? You can't sue a club for not applying the rules you want. It's like suing a private members club for having a no-trainers policy, but letting someone in wearing the wrong shoes. A judicial review is "the doctrine under which legislative and executive actions are subject to review (and possible invalidation) by the judiciary" so that wouldn't apply. The administrator is appointed by the courts to get the best deal for creditors. The only people who can question his decision in court is a creditor, not a customer of the business. Why would the creditors be qualified to make the decision, why have a dog and bark yourself?

The whole of that 'Mixed reactions' paragraph is just brilliant.

If that were true, surely they would be promoting their youth players, no? Or are they still refusing to play them in case they get counted in their squad limit of 20?

Ramirez, but it could have been Puncheon, Lallana, Lambert or Maya.

The psychological effect of going into negative points is going to crush their confidence yet more. Avoiding relegation would be an achievement.

Really pleased about the result and the second half performance. Yoshida was class, a cool head at the back. Ramirez was brilliant, whether he was up front playing through balls or retaining possession when he dropped a bit deeper late in the second half. Mayuka looked sharp. fast and willing to shoot from anywhere. He is the reason we let Billy Sharp go out on loan. Really pleased about the support shown by the fans for Adkins. I hope all the rumours are just paper talk and his position isn't under threat. However, Villa were poor. Their goal was a close range finish from a mis-kick. They looked disjointed at the back and once we got the first goal, their game plan fell apart. It's good to get points on the board and there were a lot of very encouraging performances, but let's not get too carried away.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19657230

If the Football League has cleared Chainrai, I don't understand why Birch hasn't let him take over the club. Clearly, his bid is worth more in cash to creditors than the PST. He has an obligation to look at the new bids, but I expect an announcement of the return of Chinny within a week or so. I don't know why there's a sudden interest in a club that's struggling to stay in the third tier with no real assets. Could these bidders be trying to buy a club they know little about or its myriad problems? 'Cause that's never happened before....

Threads and comments about how the team can improve are perfectly reasonable. However, all the threads are witch hunts writing players off entirely. This knee-jerk response by people who had unrealistic expectations for our prospects this year pushing the panic button won't help anyone. It will lead to a nervous atmosphere in the ground which will spread to the players.

I would be worried if we lost touch with 17th place. I expected this season to be a battle against relegation and our current position, whilst disappointing, isn't surprising. We've had a couple of poor performances: the Wigan game and the first half against Arsenal, but some decent ones against Man U and City. There are signs of hope there. If we stopped looking like an attacking threat or consistently put in poor performances, that would also be a worry. This club has a long history of last minute escapes from relegation. I fully expect this season to be the same, possibly going down to the last game to decide our fate.

If this is the best they can do whilst offering wages that their competitors in League 1 can't afford, imagine where they'd be if they'd been playing the kids? The question is, how long can this go on before the natives get restless and call for Appleton to go?

I'm suggesting that Chinny wants to hold more secured debt than the Football League stated they would allow under the conditions for the Golden Share. Chinny wants to hold on to as much as his secured debt as possible. He's got a proposal that the FL are frowning on. Chinny will say, "Accept my conditions, or I liquidate." Of course Chinny will be very happy to let someone else buy the club, as long as they meet his valuation. Ultimately, Chinny holds all the cards.

In liquidation, the first people to get paid are the courts and the insolvency practitioners. This is an insolvency law.

Are you suggesting that the Football League should allow Chainrai to drive a coach and horses through the conditions they laid down in granting them a Golden Share? Chinny's got them over a barrel. It's his terms or liquidation.

So a benefit recipient turns up to the office and tests positive for smack. They say, "No, more money." The guy still wants smack, but has no money. Wonder where they'll try and get the money? Go to more job interviews? The cost of the extra police reports and insurance claims is probably greater than the dole money you're saving. Addicts don't think rationally and change their behaviour based on whether they'll get their dole or not. It would cause more problems and solve none.

How much of the current unsecured debt is owed to HMRC? Do they have enough clout to push for liquidation? Major threat for liquidation is if the Football League don't give the green light for Chinny's terms. If he wants to pull the plug, the club's finished. Also, in liquidation, all of the proceeds would go to Chinny and Trev, HMRC would get nothing.

So, the PFA want the PST to pay the full amount on the compromise agreements and the Football League want Chainrai to hold less secured debt. How long have they had this deadline and they still can't sort out the most obvious problems with their bids?