pap

That's ok mate. My activities are not confined to this forum. So you want me to trawl all your posts looking for specific evidence of where you might have done this? That is going to happen. For the sake of brevity, let's just assume that you're totally in the right and that I have to face the collective anger of the forum for jumping to such insane conclusions. Personally, I'd just like to judge posts on a post-by-post basis and see a little less entrenchment in viewpoints. Things are rarely simple, rarely black and white, rarely left or right.

"Waaaah!" "What is it, Turkish?" "Waaah!" "Is it that Liberal Elite again?" "Waaah!" "Have they been hitting you again?" "Sniff. Ye-ye-yes. With well reasoned arguments!"

You haven't said you're a victim, but whenever you use the term, particularly when you bizarrely paint the 'Liberal Elite' as some kind of all-powerful autocracy who cannot be challenged, you look like one.

Completely agree. And agree with this too. The form is generally like this:- "Er?! You just made a well-reasoned point. I have no response. Liberal Elite!!!!" And how does that tally with you labelling other people as the Liberal Elite? Speaking only for myself, I actually try to debate the points rather than exercise an agenda against certain posters. I'm more than guilty of being a sarcastic sod on a couple of occasions, but that's normally after I've been witnessed tears and toys flowing out of a pram. FWIW, no-one is on my ignore list and I try to read threads before I post. Again, not always 100% on that one. Still, whenever I see the likes of yourself and Dune playing the victim and crying 'Liberal Elite', pretty much anything else you have to say in that post becomes null and void. If you're a victim of anything, it's your own limited capacity to respond. Don't think it's an intelligence thing either. Just think that a lot of people on here are used to saying whatever they like and not having it robustly challenged. If the so-called Liberal Elite are upsetting you that much, I'd suggest setting up your own forum and spending all day posting and agreeing with yourselves. Firstly, you might not feel as victimised. Second, you won't look like tubes when you post that crap on here.

The pair of you could enjoy tea and biscuits together.

I thought so too. Irrespective on what your views are on this, its an interesting viewpoint on the debate.

I think you should ask for this to be published in the poetry section of the Echo. Brilliant, barmy post.

When I got assaulted, it was two white dudes. I stopped someone nicking a car. He was white. I stopped a girl being assaulted on the back of a bus. They were white. Oh, and five teenagers tried to mug me once. They were white too. So add another ten caucasians to the SaintsWeb personal crime stats. Send 'em back, I say.

Nice cricket box qualifier

So do your mates get stopped and searched a lot? Not fishing. Just curious.

Are you Jack Bauer? I didn't know he was a Saints fan.

Or they're not trying hard enough. All of us have to deal with changes in the way we do our jobs. I do work for a big corporate client, heavy on process, taking on an ever increasing burden of red tape. It slows me down, but its got to be done. Not denying that stop and search is useful, but its not the only rabbit in a copper's hat. Whatever happened to gathering evidence and building a case? The Met needs the black community to feel that justice works for them. Unfortunately, previous blunders are going to make that difficult. Regardless, the Met needs some wins that demonstrate, not pay lip service to, a proper commitment to giving the black community equal treatment in London. It has taken an inquiry to get close to the facts on the Stephen Lawrence case. That's something that should be happening as a matter-of-course through the usual judicial channels. The relationship goes both ways. If the stats quoted on here are accurate, and people are fairly convicted through the judicial system, and they happen to be black - that's fair enough, isn't it? Equal treatment. While I have faith in our judicial system as a whole, jury trials in particular, pretty much everything that hits the courts through the prism of the Police. Problem is, the Met have bent the light of justice away from community too many times. Stop and search is politically sensitive, opening the wound a little whenever it happens. I'll cede that the stats may make it effective in a crime prevention sense, might be quicker, easier and I'll admit, statistically better for public safety - but everytime a law abiding kid who wants to be part of this country gets stopped, a little bit of respect for it vanishes. If the Met can demonstrate even-handedness, stop and search might become a more readily available tactic - but right now, it's a no-no, and they shouldn't make excuses because their job description has changed.

You get a replay from a different angle in slow mo too. I cracked up.

Yeah, I had the Benny Hill song going through my head when I saw that.

Just finished watching, and obviously not at the game. Lee Holmes and De Ridder looked excellent in the highlights. Holmes looks like a proper handful. De Ridder looked good all round, his goal was quality. Bart's save was really good - instinctive - good quality for a goalie. Torquay looked like they gave us a good game, but both sides had good chances that didn't happen. Footy, innit. I know it's only highlights, but some of our attacking is beautiful at the moment. Can't wait for the next game.

It's one of them All Angles Covered sets. 17mins 21 seconds. Nice.

That is all. Comments to follow.

I have to admit, I haven't finished any Zelda except Link To The Past.

Given that the story became much bigger than Tottenham, would anyone object to a thread title change?

HOW COULD YOU?!! (Random insult here) (Call for ban around here) (Comment aimed at ostracising fellow forum member with rest of forum members here) Er, wait a minute. I'm not that angry. And er, I got where OldNick was coming from. Sadly coming to the realisation that'll I've never be a member of the SaintsWeb Throatjumping Club - but I think I'll manage. Somehow. Carry on...

Maybe it'll be like when the kids home in Home & Away gets a little toerag. They behave badly until they're beaten into docile submission by tender loving care and the pleasant environment of Summer Bay. In our case, it'd be the somewhat less pleasant environment of Turd Bay, but the principle holds, I feel.

What a narrow definition that is. Surely it's "everyone who is not like us in skin tone, political persuasions and shoe size" that is responsible for all of our problems? BASTADS!

The EDL were up for defending Liverpool. Unfortunately, lack of transport prevented them from travelling :- TwitPic

Completely agree. Verbal actually reads posts before responding to them. Verbal : bit more knee-jerk reaction and name calling please, and ffs, try not to think too much.

Nice points, Phil. Looks like we have a bit of a job on our hands, but in reality, your last point is probably how this will play out.