Depressed of Shirley

For all of us who have been schleping up and down the country for the last 30+ years following Saints, can I just say that this team, management, board and owner are all we ever dreamed of. Thank you to all of you, you are making some old cynics very, very happy.

Lots of misspelt c**p here, and a lack of understanding about how our recruitment system works. It may not be Moneyball, but it is about statistical analysis.

Well done, look forward to listening to the podcast on Monday morning.

Stats say he is better than Hart and De Gea this season, therefore our forum experts have deemed him to be a bit overpriced, and not as good as the previously constantly injured incumbent.

I think you might be wrong on the basic wage, but we don't really know. What I do know, however, is that like all MU's senior players, Wellbeck is on a percentage of the kit deal and other commercial revenue. I am assuming that Long is not earning quite as much from Hull's deal with Cash Converters.

But we can't buy Ings for £8m though can we? Because he is young English, doesn't want to move, has no PL experience, and Burnley won't sell. This is the point of the whole transfer window. If Liverpool want Ings they can get him, if we, or any of the other mid table clubs want him, he won't go.

Having read Moneyball as a holiday read many years ago, this blog really does seem to cover a lot of the issues raised this summer. For those who haven't read it, it is the analysis of how the Oakland A's baseball team outthought and out played all their much richer rivals by use of statistical analysis of what actually won games of baseball. They used a number of highly educated people to work out what a player was worth to the team and recruited players who would make the team better. If a really rich underachieving team wanted to sign one of their players for more than he was worth, then they let him go, and made the team stronger by recruiting lower paid players who actually would make a difference. The success of the operation, was and still is astonishing for a team with one of the lowest budgets in the league. Why this is important for us is that we have a strong team of analysts and coaches doing exactly this, but like the Oakland A's, we effectively have a salary cap, FFP. If you want to know why other teams aren't doing the same, it is because they often don't have the players to sell, or have buyers falling over themselves to buy them. I mean I'm not sure there are many CL scouts at West Ham v Stoke. A lot of the transfer talk around all clubs is about players moving from mid table teams to CL teams, there is little appetite for players to move from say Sunderland to Swansea, and this is because FFP means that the salary you get at one club is going to be pretty similar to that you get at another. The other issue is that Saints don't want to be the first team to fall foul of FFP in the PL. For anyone outside the top six, falling foul of this could be a real problem if we are faced with a punishment that serves as a warning to everyone else. Of course, if you are in the top six and breach it, there is likely to be no punishment whatsoever.

Why not give the clubs the same power as the players? A run of bad games, or a long term injury, and it could be " sorry we have cancelled your contract." Alternatively, as above, you sign a contract, and you stay for that contract, irrespective of whether you've always dreamt of playing for Liverpool.

I think what will make the European League a formality is the fact that in England 6 clubs think they should be in the CL every year, budget for it, and then find out only four can make it. Once there is a European League Man U, Real Madrid etc will then look to start a World League, and probably an intergalactic league, just to maintain that special status, and tw**s like Lovren will fall for it.

CL is a double edged sword in my opinion, because it is like getting promoted to the PL. Once you achieve it, you then realise you need to stay in it to be able to pay the wages of the people that got you there. A one season CL appearance probably causes as much damage as good, and therefore you then have to spend to keep getting the payments. Once you are established, the whole thing becomes self fulfilling, in terms of commercial deals etc, but looking at MUFC's stockmarket statement shows that a continued absence would hurt even them. A one season CL campaign would probably cause Saints a host of problems, and maybe the thinking behind Ralph's "natural" progress to playing in Europe.

In the interests of this post actually making sense, what I meant to say was the salary cap and no transfers of under 21's, + the re-introduction of gate receipt sharing and a ban on loans would make the league a bit more competitive.

On top of the team based salary cap, and the restrictions on signing U21's, there are two other things that have brought us to where we are now. The first was the obligation to pay the visiting team a proportion of the gate money. It was this that allowed many sides such as us, Watford, Derby, Forest etc to compete with Liverpool and Man U. This will never be undone now, but it was the catalyst for the big five and the PL. The second is to ban the loan system for all players over the age of 21. This would encourage players to think about who they are signing for, and whether they would actually get any game time. It is ridiculous for clubs to loan players out to different clubs for season after season, whilst continuing to buy other first team players.

as if by magic, he signs a new four year contract, what do I know? Well done Everton, he probably won't demand to go until next summer now.

Barkley will be at either Citeh or United before the end of August I think, and wouldn't be surprised if Stones has gone as well. Everton will be as powerless as us if the p[layers agent hears of a £120k per week deal for his client.

It will be interesting to see what the Chairman of the PFA has to say about players refusing to honour contracts, going on strike etc. Particularly interesting, as he always has so much to say if any club dares withhold any contracted payments from these over pampered w*****s. On a more general note, the clubs in the PL outside the top six must be very worried about what their own players are likely to do in the future if any of them are wanted by a "big club". Perhaps they would all like to chip in a million each for us to pay Lovren and Osvaldo youth team for a year or two.

You would be right if he hadn't proved to be a massive p***k over this. He must have really tried hard when we lost at home to Liverpool, seeing as the hairs stood up on the back of his neck as Suarez dived for the penalty. He deserves, and will get dogs abuse next season at St.Mary's.

A fee of £250k in League 2 is huge. I would suggest a nominal fee is a second class rail fare from Fratton to Three Bridges. Had to post on page 1963.

I think what annoys many fans is the rubbish players spout when they join and first play for us, you know " great stadium, training ground, fans, projects etc", we lap it up as the truth. Either they should say "I've come for the money, and will leave as soon as someone offers more", or perhaps we should just treat them as merely employees of the club, so no songs about them, don't ask them for autographs, don't buy shirts with their names on etc. I stopped having any respect for Lallana as soon as he started patting the badge every time he scored. I knew then that it would end in tears, and he was just taking the p88s.

I think it is a requirement for all PL clubs to have a Supporter Liaison Officer, and it is something they have had in Germany for some time. Whether it is of any use or not, depends of the attitude towards the SLO that the club has. Could be a really useful way of having dialogue on ticket prices, travel, stewarding etc, but will probably about Pies, Beer and Car Park charges.

My view of this is that FPP is in two parts. One for UEFA and one for the PL. The PL rules are the problem for us, because it puts us at disadvantage with the CL teams in terms of income. The UEFA rules are there to stop the City/Chelsea/PSG/Malaga/Monaco issues, but really wouldn't effect us unless we spent a couple of hundred million. The PL rules are a problem, because it entrenches the current top 4 plus Man U in those top five positions. If you look at Everton and Spurs, rather than us, they will lose players, as we will, because we they won't be able to pay the wages to keep the top players. The secret, is to sell say Shaw or Barkley for £30m, replace him with two academy graduates in the first team squad, and buy/acquire three players on fees or frees that improve the overall squad. Therefore, the key to FPP is good management, coaching, scouting allied to reasonable wages. The system puts pressure on the club at all levels, and there will be seasons where the players bought, promoted to the squad don't work out. In those years, avoiding relegation will be the target, in the good years, a cup or Europa League place will be the target. In fact, this is just as it is now. The key to FPP will be the penalties applied if you break the rules. If Man City fail the UEFA test, then they may get punished. If they break the PL rules, they won't, because it could damage the "brand" if they can't compete. Man U or Liverpool won't get any penalties for anything they do on the UEFA or PL rules, as they are just too big to take on. The FPP rules are no different to the last successful attempt to keep the big clubs in control. When the clubs voted to keep their own home gate receipts in full, it was a response to clubs like Saints, Watford, Notts Forest, Ipswich etc finishing above Man U and Arsenal. This worked until Jack Walker turned up and bought the title for Blackburn, and laid down the blueprint for Abramovic, Abu Dhabi etc. Finally, if they really wanted to make things fairer, then ban loans between clubs in the same division, and ban foreign loans. That way, clubs couldn't stockpile talent, and their wage bill would reflect all the players they sign, not just the successful buys. Martin Samuel also suggests this.

Think that Osvaldo and Ramirez will definitely go. Think Lallana will stay, but would not be surprised to see two of the others go. I think we want to keep them, but cannot see the hopeless Moyes accepting he can't have Shaw. If we sell two of the ones we want to keep, it should at least generate enough money to build a better side for next season. Really hope we don't end up with some half arsed swap deals that give us either the over the hill Evra, or the completely useless Cleverley.

The point is, that the punishment is not consistent across football. If they were a non league team, they would lose all points gained in the games he was played in. Also, with all the money in the PL, why are Sunderland farming out the admin duties to the YTS person!

So, since this thread started, how many managers have they had?, and what is the combined win percentage? And generally, on a scale of 1 to 1,000,000, how much entertainment have they provided for Saints fans in that period?

Whilst it looks bleak for the fish fiddlers, at least they don't have a mountain of debt to repay to ex-players over the next few years, or they would be right in the c**p. Shalala

Whilst it looks bleak for the fish fiddlers, at least they don't have a mountain of debt to repay to ex-players over the next few years, or they would be right in the c**p. ShaLaLa