SWLondon Saint

Feel a bit sorry for RM as the referee was bent as a nine bob note. Missed everything, bookings were a joke. VAR should have looked at the Vardy foul on Suga as let's face it, he has previous with injuring people. BUT also RM made some of the worst subs ever. Noone who could defend on the left side. We put zero pressure on crosses into our box. And as multiple people have pointed out, we have a huge problem at the top of our box on set pieces. Our defensive set up is a mess. It's tough, as going forward we did look better and he has compromised on going short all the time. But our defensive mess is a huge problem and I think that's on him.

We've actually played some counter-press today and had success and chances with it - somewhat speculative longer ball to where we have an overload or at least equal numbers then heavy pressure to win the 2nd ball. Winning the ball high up the pitch then trying to score in transition. It's the return of Ralph-ball!

Goals have been very heavily about KWP and he's been outstanding, definitely our key attacking player. Defensively our low block looks a bit of a mess though like with their shot off the post. Too open in our own box, no-one seems to know who is supposed to be engaging / making contact with who. I guess it's zonal, but you really need outstanding communication to make that work imo and not sure we have it.

Well, ironically after saying he's not changing his style, we have been way more direct and hit far more long passes this game and it's worked! The players seem to have a bit more license to get rid which they have when under heavy pressure.

That basically says he puts his ego and his 'method' above results, the club, and the players. It also just shows how...well, limited he is in imagination and intellect frankly. I imagine most of us on here have worked for a variety of managers and many have also managed. Who on earth goes into any project / job saying this is the way we have to do it, regardless of the budget, personnel, facts on the ground or difficulties on the way? He's just out of his depth and posturing when he should be studying and learning from the best. It's actually pretty sad.

If you want to see how much we're underperforming, have a look at the Opta predictions for now compared to the start of the season. https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/10/premier-league-predictions-2024-25-opta-supercomputer-october Back in August before the Premier League 2024-25 season had kicked off, the Opta supercomputer made Saints favourites for the drop to the Championship (66.7%) and based on their performances so far, it’s now even more confident in that decision (90.7%). The prediction pre-season is based largely on squad strength / player profile. We've underperformed our predicted points up to now by NINE points. Looking at other teams, we're 1.5x as bad as Ipswich and 2x as bad as Leicester (based on relegation odds). You can't still think the manager has nothing to do with this?

Well yes, all fixtures are hard given we have one of the weaker squads, but our fixtures were still way easier than Ipswich or Leicester. I think we had the 4th easiest schedule to date and the 2nd hardest over the next 5-6 games or something. So it gets harder not easier. I'd also add that one of the best ways to stay up is for an established PL team or 2 to implode during the season. That happened when we went down 2 years ago for 3 teams, it didn't at all last year. It looks like possibly Wolves, Palace, Everton could be in trouble this year so it's a huge opportunity to stay up with a weak / mediocre squad and one Martin hasn't shown he's up to yet. Can't help but think even a decent manager like Ralph would have us more competitive.

Well sure, but then you can't ignore that against the teams that actually did get promoted, he had a less than stellar record of 4 losses out of 4. And do you honestly think Ipswich's squad was better than ours last year? I think where RM looks particularly bad is that Ipswich and Leicester, with squads of a similar quality to ours, have been much more competitive in their games this season. They've looked close to getting results a number of times and actually have done. Other than Ipswich, did we? Against Forest we were utterly helpless against their press, our xG was a miserable 0.2 goals for the whole game. Brentford was similar though we had a couple chances, more so when they sat back at the end though. You could argue Arsenal was a step in the right direction - but the goal we scored was nothing to do with Russ' possession-based style, it was pure counter-press - lose ball in midfield, win it back, quick pass forward, score in transition. Prior to that we'd mostly defended in a low block. The attempted short passing out did absolutely nothing for us except give the ball away in our defensive third. So for me, if Russ can adapt and get results, then fair play to him. But if he continues to play to our weaknesses and the oppositions' strengths, which will result in loss after loss, then he has to go.

Just on the whole 'No decent English coaches' thing, saw this article came up again - good read if you're at all interested in the technical and coaching side of the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach I've heard the ex-pros get an easy ride through the system here as well. Not to mention as this guy found, if you're not an ex-pro you'll find it hard even to get on the UEFA B course ...

I think most managers would be wary of taking over a team in such a bad position, unless you have something else to offer like a greater amount of control or a project to sell them. If I recall, that was part of the pitch to Ralph when he took over, that we'd play his way through all the age groups. That doesn't seem to be the case / plan anymore? But perhaps we could tempt someone like Edin Terzic who apparently fell out with the club leadership over control issues I think.

The biggest problem with your argument is that when you look at how Martin asks his team to play and his teams' strengths and weaknesses, those simply have not changed over his managerial career. If he was learning and adapting, you'd expect to have seen defensive improvement at some point - he'd figure out how to structure and prepare the team to get most of what he wants at lower risk. But no. Last season he unquestionably had some of the best defensive resources in the Championship but our defensive record was mid-table standard. He never springs a surprise with playing style, for example going direct into the channels or fast on the counter. Pretty much just says 'it is what it is, live with it' and carries on regardless. The fact is he started as a player-manager, hasn't stopped since then, and while he clearly has some strengths in keeping players happy and team building, he also clearly has never seen a top-class manager at work - when could he have? He's reached the limits of his current ability and he needs to reflect and learn. I don't think that will happen when he's here.

Come on, this team is clearly better than anything in the Championship right now. You can argue it's one of the worst PL teams, sure, but it would piss all over the Championship. Even our relegation team from 2 years ago was a level above the best Championship teams.

I think Downes is a decent player who can play as a single pivot in the Championship, but let's be honest - he is being asked to do the same in probably the hardest league in the world, against some of the best managers in the world, by a manager who is giving him (and the rest of the back 6/7) absolutely zero help out there. There's a reason it's pretty much just Rodri who does that for Man City. It needs a world class player. The closest comparison for Downes is Declan Rice - both of them are more an aggressive pressing, ball-winning 8 than a solo pivot 6, and need someone alongside them in a double pivot at this level. They can't shield the defense adequately on their own, and they can't play that crucial link role just getting, giving, retaining on the half turn. It's just not their game.

I mean, sometimes you just need to whack it to your #9 and hope he holds it up. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and Arsenal did it plenty. You could see when the ball went into Stewart or Tall Paul and it stuck everything gets easier, you're further up the pitch with more space and options.

What is incredibly frustrating about all this is I think there is a decent side in there somewhere, but the manager is actually making them perform worse than they probably could. It's just bloody vanity. Even Pep's teams don't try and pass it around their own area after just getting it back off the opposition, they're perfectly happy to move quickly onto the counter. But we don't! On the counter, on transition is the best way to score for ANY team. Yes, we are seeing a lot of individual mistakes. But when it's costing us an average of 2 goals a game, and coming from nearly every single member of the back 4+2 midfielders, it's very clear the problem is either the system or how it's being communicated. Too much scrambled thinking, too much 'extreme possession' indoctrination has the players doubting their instincts to sometimes get rid of the ball long or medium distance.

Archer was actually playing wide left when Tall Paul came on and looked perfectly fine.

Just put your foot through it 😑😑😑😑

It's ridiculous how much better we look with a proper centre forward on and pace on the flanks. Just makes TPs long exile before this seem all the more ridiculous.

Sorry, but that VAR is complete bollocks. The player in the centre is clearly involved in play.

To be fair to RM, he has set up to try not to get beat. A low block with KWP as a 2nd left back when it's with Saka, then he has a kind of free defensive role when it goes left and KWP has actually mopped up quite a lot of potential danger. The problem right now is we have literally 0 threat. Stewart was clearly on to try to hold up the ball which he was doing OK at up against 2 class CBs. So why the heck replace him with Archer, who is clearly a channel runner / ball in behind type?! Would make more sense to have BBD or Tall Paul in surely?

The Arsenal line up clearly says they don't believe we have any threat in behind so they're going to be a 3-3-4 and press hard onto our back 4. Unless we're going to play mid length passes into Stewart be prepared to see us lose the ball a LOT in the danger zone.

I can only assume he wants Manning and KWP to double up on Saka or he is actually trying to lose by double figures and get the boot.

Absolutely, who wouldn't enjoy watching the opposition cough up the ball for some easy goals!! 😂 The way they pressed with 5/6 against PSG, they could pretty much score at will if Russ does his usual amount of homework / prep as evidenced so far. If they're serious about the title they ought to be thinking they have a huge chance for a cricket score and then hopefully the manager gets changed before we play their title rivals.

Interestingly, the thing that turned Spain from possession kings who never won anything into the title winning juggernaut they are now was actually adding what you've just described to their traditional PB game. The work out of possession is arguably Pep's hallmark, I don't get why everyone focuses on the tiki taka bit when actually they probably score more in transition than after long periods in possession. The whole point of the 'counter press' thing is kind of choosing the areas where you take risks and lose possession, then winning it back in those danger areas and scoring very soon after. It's basic stuff and I just don't get why someone with a UEFA Pro license like Russ is getting flat-out schooled in it by all the other PL managers so far.

Honestly, with world-class players I'm sure Martin would still be shipping goals. That's a question of defensive organisation and he just can't do it, he never has. What I don't get is what bloody metric anyone involved in the hiring process was looking at? The fact his teams concede so many surely should have been a red flag?