SWLondon Saint

While I was trying to find that old article about rest defence, I also happened across this one. Although it's about Antonio Conte, there's an interesting bit about what happens when teams know what you're going to do and counter it. https://analyticsfc.co.uk/blog/2023/01/23/the-automatisms-of-tottenham-hotspur-under-antonio-conte/ Though it also makes me wonder why, when everyone and their dog knew what Everton would do with that free kick (long to back post, back across to Beto), we still managed to leave them both completely unmarked for free headers.

The playing style is not particularly relevant to what happens when you lose the ball as it's inevitable you will lose it at some point, you just need to have a clear plan - have a look at this old article about Ralph which explains 'rest defence'. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3581810/2022/09/22/explaining-southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttls-footballing-vocabulary/?redirected=1 I don't know if it's because the European managers are just more willing to talk in technical terms or the training in this country simply doesn't cover it in as much detail but I don't think I've heard Martin (or any English coach for that matter) talk with that level of specificity. Anyone done their UEFA A badge on here?

The problem here is you've cherry picked the crosses that scored - if you look at those games as a whole, there weren't that many other crosses! We simply don't get the ball in the red zone enough to create enough higher xG chances - it feels a lot like we're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Also, all three of those crosses came in transition situations rather than from our PB 'style' ie drawing players out of position keeping possession at the back then bypassing the press. I actually am a fan of PB football, I just don't think Martin is doing it well enough, as well as his well known failing to organise the defence. If you want to see a detailed analysis of a similar PB (though better!) team, read this about Ole Werner's Werder Bremen team: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/ole-werner-werder-bremen-202425-tactical-analysis-tactics I should add that our possession style is actually the most extreme in the PL - shorter passes and nearly always short goal kicks. So even the top teams and coaches you mention do not play PB like Martin. They mix it up more because if you do that, you create more attacking threat, which creates defensive uncertainty, which creates space and opportunities, etc etc. As I've said before, nothing personal against Martin, he's just out of his depth. He's never had experience of playing in or working with the manager of a top PB team - literally, how or when could he have when he started managing while still playing?!

MOTD had it as 5 goals in 75 Premier League appearances as he had 15 while at Newcastle.

Watching the highlights, we were really lucky not to lose to be honest. What is going on with the set piece defending - when they hit the bar the first volley back across was completely unmarked then same for Beto with the header? Keane totally unmarked when that cross came in for the Ramsdale worldie save too, that was after a corner had been half cleared if I remember right?

Bloody hell, glad you're back safe from Valencia, hope you weren't caught in the floods? And couldn't agree more on the shooting and I have to add crossing - just look at Liverpool's equaliser against Brighton today, Gakpo curls in a cross and it goes in. Simples. You don't cross or shoot, you don't score. Just saw on motd our xg was 0.67 Vs 1.47 for Everton so we just aren't creating enough.

I actually think if Martin is determined to keep playing Manning, which I think he probably is, it's better if KWP plays on the left as he can get forward and play as a winger to take on defenders. He's one of the best in our team for going past players and that's something we desperately need. Also, AA will be starting on the right for the foreseeable after scoring today and he tracks back well so I think Suga, who is still a bit off the pace defensively but good at crossing, is a worthwhile risk.

Phew. Did anyone else watching not think their disallowed one looked fairly comfortably onside? KWP looked a yard behind the others, I was mentally already in 'here we go again' mode. But then Arsenal's 2nd I thought Merino was clearly off and in Ramsdale's eyeline so happy to get the totally undeserved VAR boost for a change 🤣 Watched the whole thing, 2nd half we were definitely getting very disjointed after Manning went off for Dibling. They actually looked by far the likelier to score the whole half except for the goal! - AA is not ideal out wide, especially on the left. Absolutely zero threat to go past anyone and when we had the right footed Cap'n Jack and Fernandes out there too it was too predictable. But he closes down and tracks back really well so I can see the argument for him. - Dibling's decision making is still a bit hit and miss but at least he's direct and aggressive, and has the skill to go past people too. Think he may be better as a super sub this season so he can go at tired defenders. - Was tearing my hair out at AA's volley into the stand and then that bizarre header from KWP's excellent cross that he somehow got ahead of and then it looked like someone had just thrown the ball when he wasn't looking and smashed him on the side of the head. But great finish from Suga's excellent low pass into the box. Too many chances to hit the target once but it's not like that's news after all these years! - Several class saves from Ramsdale, MOTM for me for sure. Terrible defending though, totally free header for Keane?!? + Why is a f**king long ball over the top able to completely unlock our defence? Also, why was there absolutely f all pressure on the person playing the ball? Just can't let that happen at pretty much any level. We were lucky as hell not to concede. - Some hoofs clear from really dangerous positions - FINALLY! Don't know if this is a manager thing or the players deciding to go with their own instincts. Possibly the latter considering RM was going on about how proud he was wearing played out on the ground just prior to our goal. But after they hit the bar, they were distracted and it was definitely the right decision to run / pass out. One occasion I remember KWP was surrounded, would have been suicidal to try and pass out so he hoofed it. Sure, it came back quickly, but that's still much better than losing it in / near our area. - Our goal came, as most of our open play ones have this year, from a quick counter and attacking in transition! We just look so much better when we do this it's ridiculous. Archer has enough pace to be a real threat in behind. THB is actually really good playing those midrange passes. - I just don't understand why no-one on the staff can see that when Cap'n Jack has the ball in the inside left zone in midfield and turns back towards our goal, it is f**king RED ALERT every time. Other teams are clearly using it as a trigger to press because he plays some absolute hospital passes to the midfielders and fellow defenders. Also when he's under pressure near our area he is terrible at trying to play past the first line of the press. Couple of terrible giveaways luckily didn't lead to much, but against better teams... Anyway, happy we avoided the worst 10 game start in PL history 😅

Generally pretty poor quality match on both sides. - Our best chance was from a corner. Very little from open play. - I assumed Cap'n Jack would fill the LB role in possession but it appears he's been given licence to roam in midfield where he's done... Absolutely nothing good. Nearly played other people in trouble a couple of times. We don't need the extra centre back, we need some pace wide left. He feels like a safety blanket for the manager. - Downes has played some terrible wall passes and passes in general putting other players in bad situations. He really should have figured out some of those don't work in the PL by now. Where is the development? Better to take a touch like Lallana and Fernandes do and draw a player before releasing it. Or he doesn't trust his own 1st touch enough.

Honestly, we've reached a point where I'd be happy with him instead of Martin. He couldn't do much worse and has worked with better coaches / in much higher level environments.

On the silver lining side, lose this and it will officially be the worst PL start in history after 10 games! Draw and we're in a 3-way tie for worst start. Woohoo! - Sunderland 2016-17 and Man City 1995-96 if you were wondering, 2 points, both relegated.

It's not just the players, we also don't play anything like City. Our line is nowhere near as high, and we don't counter press like they do when they lose the ball. They play direct long passes a LOT more than we do too. Also, their defensive organisation is superb, Pep drops people who don't do their defensive jobs. Basically if you gave RM the City team he would still concede an absolute shit ton of goals.

Also, no idea why BBD is on the bench. I was vaguely optimistic for him at the start of the season but he has looked completely lost out there on the left. He seems to be OK battling defenders physically and is a pro shithouser so funnily enough I think he could do a job in the middle, but we've never seen him anywhere other than our in no man's land on the left...

Fraser has looked completely rubbish the whole season tbh. I guess he doesn't trust Sam AA there or Archer with Tall Paul up front which would be my answers, but he does love Manning and Cap'n Jack so this is the most sensible way to Shoehorn them in.

Don't forget Dibling is only 18 - he's not fully grown and his body likely can't cope with PL intensity matches week in week out. Having him come off the bench is sensible tbf

It's the same team as for City but given Everton don't usually press as hard, expect it to look like a 4-3-3 as for Stoke when we're in possession with Stephens in the Bree position and Manning in place of Fraser / Cornet. Why? Who knows, Manning isn't particularly creative there but I guess it is defensively more sound? I guess the theory on the right is AA can run around a lot and defend to let KWP attack on the overlap? As AA presents zero threat to take on and beat people, at least that was the case against Stoke.

I mean, I hate to say I told you so, but... 😅

Maresca also had a much better playing career than Martin don't forget, he played in Serie A / La liga for years and won the UEFA cup with Sevilla.

Why on earth are people writing team lists without Cap'n Jack as the first name on? Have you learned nothing! 🤯

I do wonder how much scouting is done in person now, you could easily just watch every match in most leagues back in the office.

Well, yes and no - the article clearly states that this is on average, over multiple leagues and a long timeframe. It also says that experienced but not very high achieving coaches are generally favoured over less known coaches with potential. So your analogy is dead wrong - for there to be on average no effect, for every Unai Emery, there are not multiple Nathan Joneses, there is just one! And anyway, when you have 1 point from 27, isn't it kind of academic whether a new manager will be worse? You literally can't get much worse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq6l2mq23nyo Obviously I know we're not going to get Amorim, but just read this article about him - humble, always trying to learn and improve, and most importantly, with the same squad and players, overachieves. We should be trying to find the next Amorim, not sticking with someone who does none of the above.

100% this. Wall passes are the right pass sometimes, but we play them far too often and actually play ourselves into trouble with them a lot of the time. It's bad habits players have got into from the level below where the tactical side is more lax and the press isn't as well structured. As Convict Colony said above, the players receiving after the first line of the press have to be able to play on the half turn, and Downes isn't that great at it. It has to be Fernandes or Lallana as they're the only 2 in our team who can play that way.

Had another look at the goals we conceded. The first one we absolutely have to compete better on the first ball, it's absolutely criminal. Then Suga had to be more aware there's noone outside him and can let it go. Still no clue what he's trying to do, think a chest to keeper most likely... The 2nd there is clearly not enough defensive communication after the ball is lost. THB starts on Cannon but drifts off him, then Suga is out of position. They did get lucky the deflection on the shot takes it straight to Cannon but still, no-one is near him. The one off the line is a pretty suicidal pass back from ?Cornet? on the right touchline, however THB maybe could be braver to get his body or head in there which would have won a free kick. After that I thought Ramsdale should have claimed it easily as their player took a heavy touch, but somehow it bounces off his chest and nearly in off their guy. Good clearance by Suga.

Yep, seen absolutely nothing from those 3 that justifies them over Sam A-A. Sure he'll make mistakes, he's a kid, but that's how you learn. Not like he could've lost us any more points!