Ken Tone

What I heard was that Gaydamak kept ownership of the (quite large) areas of ground nearby that would be needed for any redevelopment but that he sold the stadium itself and the club to the joke arab. Chainrai presumably holds the stadum (and the football club as an entity) as security for his loan to al-faraj and is now calling in that security because they've defaulted on the re-payments. His motive now is presumably to protect his loan. If they went into administration as it was, he'd just be another creditor in the queue. He'll want to avoid admin or winding up, cut costs when he can and get out when he can. The real question is what on earth possessed him to lend the money in the first place? Don't think he can even plan to build on the stadium site since I'd have thought gaydamak owns too much of the adjoining land to make that viable fiancially Km

And I've ignored any other on-costs such as any work-based pension scheme too. Not to mention premises costs and the far less expensive wages for non-playing staff. I know -- I can count beans as well! But then I also missed out home cup games, sales of replica shirts, sponsorship, etc from the income side. It was only meant as a very rough indication, that overall we are probably pretty much paying our way with 20 k crowds and (even generous) L1 wages. Herr Liebherr has in effect put £20 mill (again, only roughly) into the club, is getting no return, but is probably spending not much more on a regular basis, and if all goes well the club will eventually be worth rather more than £20 mill. What is an established mid -table premiership club, with own stadium and no major debt, worth? So if he ever intends to sell, he might lose most of his money if we fail, get a profit if we succeed, or maybe just recoup his investment if we succeed only modestly, say by becoming fixed in mid-table CCC. A sort of £20 million each way bet really! No crtitcism of Herr Liebherr intended in all that btw. Really glad he's here. K.

The bit of the article I don't get is >>The Hong Kong businessman Balram Chainrai, who has links with the Israeli businessmen connected to Faraj, has loaned what the club said amounted to £20m and has two mortgages over the club. One, registered on 6 October, gives Chainrai's company Portpin, which is registered in the British Virgin Islands tax haven, security over Fratton Park. The other, registered on 7 January, secures for Portpin "the whole of [Portmouth's] undertaking and all its property and assets". That means that if the club does fall into administration or liquidation, Chainrai will be able to take possession of the club itself, and Fratton Park, possibly leaving HMRC and the club's mounting list of other creditors unpaid. Why should Chainrai not just be another creditor, in the queue with HMRC ,Gaydamak et al? The tragedy of this and it is becoming a tragedy, is that no one who has the power to put the club into administration will do so ,because it would mean the end of their gravy train. Storre reportedly eanred over £2 million from the lcub last year. The minute an administrator takes over he will be sacked. Why would he put the cub into admin? Ditto the owners. Admin would mean losing their ownership in effect. So we end up with a club sliding inexorably into oblivion, with no one having both a motive and the power to stop it. I , even as a rabid Saints fan, don't want this. I'd rather see them painfully broke spending years gradually declining into L2! K.

Err. We already have the whole Chapel. It's just that hardly anyone chooses to sit there! K.

Can I just be in the squad on first team wages without playing for a couple of years please? K.

Not sure the cup of decaffeinated tea I just had will help you! ;-) But I stand by what I said. Someone (can't remember source) said we were going to pay one of the recent new players £6k a week, and this was substantially more than he was on at his old club. Squad of 40 in round numbers on average of say £4k? = £160K aweek. Income from home gates alone , say 20,000 crowd at average of £20 each allowing for kids and some expenses = £ 400,000 a game. £160k a week = approx £8.3 million a year. £400k a game for 23 games = £ 9.2 million, and that's ignoring cup games and any TV income, not to mention sponsorship. Now I know I've ignored lots of expenses and may have underestimated average wage etc --this is only a crude illustration -- but nonetheless, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that Saints are probably paying their way, or are close to doing so, on a day to day basis. Herr Liebherr is probably getting no return on his initial investment but I doubt he is having to subsidise much more at present, with the crowds we are getting. K.

Only way to deal with that is to say bad idea then in the comment section say but would be ok if moved to kingsland north --or whatever you feel K.

From guardian artilce >>>>Players and staff at the stricken south coast club have still to be paid wages for January, though the Premier League has earmarked £1.8m from the £6m Portsmouth received from the sale of Younes Kaboul back to Tottenham Hotspur. A further £2.5m of that amount will go directly to Chelsea and Watford as the latest tranche of the money owed on the transfers of Glen Johnson, Mike Williamson and Tommy Smith, with the remainder to be channeled directly to Her Majesty's *Revenue and Customs. The Premier League is aware that a further £12.5m in payments is due before the end of the season to clubs in relation to previous transfers, £4m of which is due to Udinese, Rennes and Lens in mid-March. A payment of £9m which the club's former owner, Sacha Gaydamak, claimed was due at the end of January has also apparently not been met as yet. So even if all the goalkeeper's fee goes to the club, and not to HMRC which seems more likely in fact, they've gained a bit less than 3 months' *players*wages in the transfer window, including January's. At best they can pay February and March, then they're back in schtuck again. At worst if they have to pay Gaydamak etc, they still haven't even got enough to pay even January's wages. Their ordinary income must be nowhere near enough to cover outgoings , or they wouldn't have got into this mess in the first place. Why on Earth didn't they sell more players? It seems as if this week's owners are acting with complete willful and reckless disregard for the future of the club. The only reasonng I can half believe may be behind ther actions is that their playing brinkmanship with Gaydamak etc , reckoning that he will not try to see them wound up, because if they cease trading he'll have even less chance of recovering his money. Thank god for what happened to us. And for those that worry how we'd fare if Markus dropped dead tomorrow. Even if there were no trust fund, we'd not be in all that bad a state. Remember that we now have no mortgage or bank loans to pay off, so our income must be at least close to covering our regular outgoings. Herr Liebherr has invested £15 -20 million as a lump sum in effect. I doubt he is having to subsidise wages and other regular costs much. He just isn't getting any return on his investment ...yet. K.

Good question. Normally would have to pay if we sign a player of his age ... IF Reading offered him a contract at the end of the season. But then Reading only signed him from non-league over the summer, so they have hardly developed him, have they? He'll have been here more than there. Presumably the rules must involve some element relating to length of time on books? Anyone sure of the rules? K.

In fact now I come to think of it if Mr Cortese's plan is to create a whole home end why doesn't he just try to persuade those who currently sit in the northam to move to the Chapel next year by a) a publicity campaign and more importntly b) offering a one off discount (say 10 or 20%) to anyone with a northam ST this year on a chapel ST next year? Such a discount would probably cost less than all the physical buoilding alterations needed to move the away fans K.

I think what you are overlookng is that presumably whoever designed the arragements for St Mary's DID plan for a full home end -- The Chapel stand.Had the main noisy supprt gone there, there wouldn't have been any problem. However those fans CHOSE to go into the northam rather than to form a whole home end. As said before if the away fans are moved many of the noisiest fans will follow them, leaving a diluted half empty Northam and a smallet 'new northam' in half of the chapel. K.

And presumably there will be fans with tickets printed 7pm. Surprised this change wasnt publicised more And btw the announcer today made a complete mess of the pompey ticketing arrangements! Jusst baclk from game. 3 poionts buit not a good display K

Am at stockport game (ht -- we're paying crap) Programme says MK dons ko time is 7.45 Is that right? Ot was 7pm. Has it been changed? K

Yes but that tends to be the case in grounds with a long history, where main noisy home ends were established for years before many away fans travelled at all ,and long before segregation of away fans. (I know there are exceptions) St Mary's is still new and volatile. Many Northam and Itchen North fans will move IMO. K.

I take it you gave them the impression at the meeting that you thought most fans would like this idea? How would those currently with STs in Kingsland South or the Chapel be winners? I don't know what sort of age you are or how long you've been going to matches. I'm 56 and have been a very regular match-going football fan for 39 years. Part of the pleasure for me is meeting the same regulars sitting around me. Moving fans around in a major way like this will upset all sorts of casual friendships. It will be like starting at St Mary's from the Dell all over again.... and for what .. a bit more noise. Is the atmospherer now so rubbish? K.

Exactly. Why do they think the northam end became the noisiest one in the first place? Supporters went there when St Mary's opened *because* it was next to the away fans. Moving away fans will just move home fans too. If away fans are moved to the chapel/kingsland it will upset a lot of the ST holders in the Kingsland (and say what you like about the kingsland, I reckon it is where the majority of ST holders sit) Boring old farts like me, with a ST currently in Kingsland South, will not want to be next to the away fans, especially as seats around me will gradually fill up with younger, noisier fans who will want to stand throughout the game, blocking my view or forcing me to stand too etc. Eventual result -- Chapel/ Kingsland South become as the Northam and Itchen North are now. No net change, no solid end of home singing support, just a lot of loyal fans upset. Meanwhile the police control room/viewing point above the current away fans would need to be moved (HOW?) and the arrangements for away coaches changed. Where would they park? There's far less room near the kingsland than there is by the northam. Away fans will be further from the station, making it harder for the police to control and shepherd away any large stroppy groups if there is troub;le. I'm sorry. It sounds lke a really half-baked idea to me, with little understanding of how English football crowds work. K.

If it weren't for that 'pen-pusher', we might well not have a club now. K.

If they are paying Utaka £80k a week as reported , and bearing in mind that a year or 2 ago their wage bill was reported as being the 4th highest in the premiership, I doubt that £1.6million will even cover a month's wages. £1.6 million for a month is approx £400k a week = only 5 Utakas. Or to put it another way, squad of 40(?), £1.6 million a month = average wage of 'only' £10k a week, and they are clearly paying way above that. And that ignores all other monthly costs such as Storrie's £2 million a year salary, interest on all those 'short term loans', etc. Which of course is both how they 'bought' the FA cup and stayed in the premiership, and also why they are skint. K.

Well if Gillett recovers the form he had with us last season, when at times he was our best player, there could be worse news TBH. Let's face it if we signed a new midfielder, apparently on form, currently playing regularly in the CCC, most of us would be pleased, and that does describe Gillett. He did ok for us when he came on against Ipswich .. nothing special I know, but ok. K.

If the media's latest rumour is to be believed perhaps we all need to wear Libyan army uniform? K.

Once again, Minty, you post sense. But I fear your hope may be forlorn. K.

Maybe it isn't just that the income is better than expected (though I am sure that is so.) Maybe Liebherr is also finding that he enjoys playing with his new football team more than he expected to? After all this is apparently his first venture into the game. Perhaps he's enjoyed the matches at St Mary's and is now prepared to put in more money, more quickly, than he was at first? K.

You do realise that 'home-grown' does not mean bythat individual club? Just means English or Welsh ---or more likely foreign , but bought by Arsenal when they were 14! "The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system." The only weird thing is Scots excluded, presumably because they have a separate league. k.

Perfectly valid argument, but personally I think there is a slim chance that Patterson will make it that high .. admittedly maybe only a 1 in 20 chance, but a chance. To put that in perspective, I never thought that highly of Cranie, Blackstock or Best who are already better than I thought they'd get! Mills I did rate. K.

I know very little about Barnard other than he's scored goals this season, but not really in previous seasons , and he is 25. Sounds like a good signing for the short to mid- term. Patterson on the other could just, maybe, perhaps, with a following wind, really be the deal of the decade for southend. k.