Gloucester Saint

It’s very difficult to compare between eras. Public services were definitely better previously - dentists, GPs, local authorities - the country has gone in the wrong direction there. However, our preventative knowledge is much better nowadays showing the value of investing in research and especially mental health, which is much better recognised than it ever was. Neurodiversity is way better recognised but we need to get the waiting lists on diagnosis now. Culturally it’s harder still to compare because of streaming, you don’t have 30m people watching the same programme, not even major Royal events but then the choice is good to have on the other hand. The climate is definitely more unpredictable though - the sun is at its most intense 5-8pm in the summer now and that was never the case. First noticed it in 2018 in the Lake District, road surface melting on Hardknott Pass (that was fun!). More intense spells of rainfall and storms with the costly damage to communities and properties, businesses that entails. Politically - the more things change the more they stay the same. In 1991, the USSR was no more and the end of history was proclaimed. Today, Putin is no different to many of the expansionist Soviet dictators, but America is potentially far less stable. China is recognised as more of threat today politically and on trade since Clinton let them into WTO. Something else - people have changed post-Brexit, which was toxic whichever side you were on, then really visible after the pandemic. More fractious, bad tempered and things flare off quicker. You see it in shops, the roads, sometimes at work. People are quicker to be aggressive and abusive. That said, the decline in customer service doesn’t help. I think society has become too fractionalised into groups, we’ve forgotten how to agree and disagree. People should also be able to mistakes and apologise without being cancelled or humiliated. Seen Duck’s post since and agree with much of that, late 90s-early 00s were probably the best I experienced. Saints were a darn sight better too!

The football itself was better I agree and far more in touch with working communities. However, for balance, the stadiums were awful. We forget this because the Dell was one of the tidiest and safest in that era but many were not - Bradford, Hillsborough, Heysel. There was a lot more trouble as well - on the same day as Bradford, a lad was killed by a falling wall at St Andrews as Brum and Leeds firms battled it out. Chelsea was 80% in the elements, away end at Ewood awful, and as for lower league grounds…compare it to now. If go to Whaddon Rd, only one stand is antiquated, the other three are safe, modern, clean and tidy.

Been there with Branfoot and Lowe already as separate examples. Tried to with Pellegrino as did others at SMS but we didn’t get buy-in until it was almost too late. Difference with Branfoot and Lowe was that the club had a fragmented ownership structure which had many drawbacks around attracting investment but it also meant that the protests would cause embarrassment and friction would build up across the different stakeholders. Even then, it was really the boycott in 08/09 and 9k gate v Ipswich which broke the board’s stubbornness. This time around, Dragan will only take notice that we want firstly Martin and Martinball gone, and then SR restructured with Rasmus and Kraft out of it with swathes of empty seats at SMS on the TV, given why SR bought us in the first place. This season it won’t hit financially, mainly reputationally, but next year when the gate revenue becomes far more of a factor in sustainability, their concerns will multiply.

Wouldn’t have done much better. Martin’s style of play isn’t suited to the PL full stop. 🛑

Lesley is a contender for our worst ever XI. What possessed Chelsea to spend £23m on him is anyone’s guess. Poor touch, lumbering, gives the ball away and a clumsy tackler. Not the Victor type DM we thought we were getting. To balance that a bit, not sure Russell’s training methods or style of play do him any favours either. Lavia would have struggled too and even Downes has this year, and he’s supposed to be Russell’s fulcrum. Cornet is a quality player who badly needed games but again, not suited to the testimonial pace, Burnley and Lyon play much quicker, and started ok at West Ham before that long-term muscle injury. Hard to judge him properly.

I’m long past being bothered this season, didn’t even bother to watch the highlights this weekend, but he needs to go by the festive period just to try and salvage some momentum for next season. Sheff Utd’s little revival under Wilder, although brief, has helped them.

If the internet were a thing in 92-94, you’d still have had a small minority supporting Branfoot. There were people standing on the Milton sneering ‘who are you going to replace him with then?’ even when 90-95% of us were protesting volubly.

You can - do something else with your weekends. Worked under Branfoot, got rid of Lowe with help from Leon Crouch. They can be as clever and innovative in how they spin things as they like when the club loses 0-2 to Plymouth in front of a gate of 14k 08/09 style with a boycott going on.

Sums up what Forkbeard the Swansea fan was saying about Martin and those around him saving their necks by giving easy access and copy to national media despite results and anyone with an IQ in double digits seeing things are not going well.

Rasmus - see Christophe’s post on the SR thread. Still doesn’t excuse the dreadful tactics but bear in mind that ‘Mr Football’ will have almost certainly have had a major hand in selecting him in the first place even if Wilcox sealed the deal.

Well there we have it from Henrik Kraft - Rasmus is Mr Football and in charge of transfers at all three clubs. Very clear where our ire needs to be directed.

It currently stands at 99-yes and 9-no. 999 - sums up where the club and SR is at. Might solve the financial barrier as Russell will hate that and walk.

On the SR thread I think, Master Bates posted them.

Unlikely - no ponies to be found on Mars

It wouldn’t surprise me, although the stories this morning about a new SR DoF you’d hope are a clear sign Dragan as the one signing the cheques is fed up with Rasmus and sees how far out of his depth he is. Last night’s puff piece on the BBC suggests otherwise though and that Rasmus is doubling down on Phil Giles’s hard work operationally at Brentford (his political sort always take the credit for others’ work). Hence Carsley would not be a surprise at all. The fans will clearly see it’s another Rasmus folly and unless Carsley pulls off some FA Cup type shock victories at Anfield, Old Trafford etc in the PL, the very frustrated fans will be gunning for him straight away as he will just be a continuation of Jones and Martin so Rasmus keeps the train set despite all of the derailments. Agree that we need a no-nonsense figure but fat chance until Dragan restructures SR to dissolve the Danish duo out of it.

It’s why there needs to be a restructure within SR, then a new SR DoF and a SFC DoF, then we will have a recruitment approach focused on pace, power and raw attributes like we used to, working to a first team manager playing the type of press/pass and counter attacking football SFC plays at it’s best. No more left field manager appointments like Jones or Martin either. Pick the best your budget can take. Even Gao managed that. SFC at its worst is when it thinks it knows better than everyone else. Lowe, Les Reed, Semmens, Rasmus all guilty of it, although at least Lowe and Reed had some success beforehand. The same mistakes on contract extensions were being made well before SR by Reed and Semmens, which Ralph nipped in the bud somewhat, but with the extra investment, they are more costly and dangerous to fix. Livramento was a good deal but there’s no way a strategy should develop around one deal. You’ve got to consider what’s needed around the team and what the first team manager wants to do. I don’t rate Russell Martin but the players bought in over this summer, only Fernandes and Downes work with the way he wants to play, horrible as it is.

Unless the DoF has 100% football control and neutralises completely the ineptitude of the blond bloke on the right of the picture, nothing will change. Rupert Lowe knew far more about football than Rasmus does, and that is not any kind of bar to clear. Personally I think SR should be restructured with Rasmus and Kraft bought out but that seems unlikely. The DoF needs to be a global big hitter - Henry, Vieira, if SR is to start being taken seriously. And Dragan needs some other high worth investors to pull off a multi club model.

I’d argue 1975-85 - was a young supporter for the later part of that period and it was fab. 2009-17 was brilliant to be part of and ran the 70s/80s quite close, but our folks were very fortunate to see what they did as Saints fans. My dad got to watch Keegan as Dell STH. 1986-91 was good, attacking football under Nicholl, decent cup side and young exciting players. The promotion to the first division under Bates was probably excellent as well but before my time.

I think there’s only two ways out of this: - SR sells the club (unlikely with 4 years of parachute payments coming up) - Dragan restructures SR. Depends how much will he had to do it, because it will be toxic, complex, not instant and people won’t want to easily give up the train set, but personally I’d be getting the best legal advice I could on how to dissolve the current structure as the financial underwriter/main investor and get Rasmus and his mates off the SR board and start afresh with some football industry ops experience. You can buy recruitment software but not good leaders with industry track record. Preferably for what they want to create as a multi-club set up, further high worth investors on board as well. I think option 2 is fairly unlikely as well unless Dragan is an activated owner, so the future is Watford lite, given the other clubs in their group are Udinese and Granada IIRC. Gates of 18-20k and bobbing around 8th-20th places in the Champ selling the odd gem to stay afloat. Probably why Martin feels so safe.

Quite. If SR appointed Slaven Bilic, or a younger Neil Warnock or Harry Redknapp with a long record from promotions, that’s what they’d expect. But Russell Martin admitted himself post-match at Wembley he was a gamble. Dragan needs to dissolve SR as currently constituted, get some other high worth investors on board and definitely a proper DoF for the umbrella. He might think he’d be stuffed without Rasmus’s data and systems but a high profile agent like Mendez would have access to similar kit whilst the scouting network was rebuilt (which has been needed at SFC since Mitchell left). Wolves did well in their promotion season with a strategic recruitment to an agent. Why not try it? Rasmus and his mate/s are killing Dragan’s investments at all three clubs.

It’s not unusual in contracts but I agree that given Martin’s modest record that it was too generous and didn’t reward genuine high performance. Finishing 4th was what was expected. McKenna in 2nd, that was over and above. But look at how SR handled the Jones saga as well. There’s a huge chasm of commercial acumen and experience. A lot of us have got someone like Rasmus at work - a leader with the ‘ideas’ but no practical experience or ability to make them work in real life. Not a surprise that they can’t get basics like contracts and recognition right.

Know what you mean. I loved it when Leicester came to SMS in WGS’s first season, rock bottom, and were singing ‘we’re shit and we’re 2-0 up’. These days it would go ‘how shit must you, we’re winning 2-0’. I think it did come out in the Leicester home game tbf.

Unless Dragan grows a pair and deals with the fact his organ grinder is out of his depth so far that it makes the old Southampton Central Baths feel like the Atlantic Ocean, little chance of that. In his shoes, I’d be heading to a top sports partnerships law firm and seeing how I could dissolve his and Kraft’s shares, and get some practical football industry experience on the SR board. Dragan hasn’t shown much chance that will happen though or he’s got the backbone to execute it and restructure SR.

What if it was gallows humour or songs which were critical of the manager or club instead in the second half? I can understand why people aren’t in the mood to belt out OWTS with the most turgid football since Pellegrino and arguably Branfoot. If the style of play quickened beyond testimonial pace and we actually got shots and crosses in, that’s what helps sustain the visiting supporters.