Saint_John

I forgot how much we were on top in last season's game :- Possession - Saints 59% v reading 41%. Shots - Saints 19 v reading 6. On Target - Saints 12 v reading 4. Corners - Saints 7 v reading 2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17637590 It looks like only Jose, Jack, Adam and Rickie will be the only 4 remaining from that starting lineup.

I would ignore the Echo, the same writer in the Pink on 27th Oct when there was lots of discussion about systems e.g. 4-4-2 or Nigel's 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3) wrote the following :- I think the change to 4-2-3-1 over the last few weeks shows that Dan knows nothing about football or the reasons Saints are doing things. The Echo should be more worried about their circulation figures dropping below 30,000 for the first time ever (29,973). http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2012/news/abc-figures-how-the-regional-dailies-performed-5/

Uncle Dave is CLUELESS, he just wants to play 4-4-2 and nothing else because they are the only tactics that he knows or understands. He spent the whole match saying we need to put a second player up front i.e. change from 4-2-3-1. He is a old dinosaur who's days have passed him by, no team in the PL plays 4-4-2 anymore they all play variations of 4-2-3-1 (some call it 4-3-3) because as the first half on Sunday showed the 3 in central midfield will outplay the central 2 in 442 and the wide players (in 4-2-3-1) either stop the fullbacks overlapping or allow them 1 on 1 with the full backs. Rather than listen to him (I turned off because he is like a stuck record -"must play a second striker"), as Nigel said post match we should be questioning the "fringe players" effort.

YES. We changed from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1 when Mayuka came on. JayR on the left wing and Mayuka on the right with Adam playing the 3rd attacking midfielder. Davis & Morgan were the holding midfielders. We looked like a side that could compete in the PL once we changed from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1.

I hope that puts a end to the calls for us to play 4-4-2. For the first hour we played 4-4-2 with NO SHOTS at goal in the 1st half and only a tame Jason effort early in the 2nd half. Then the change to 4-2-3-1 (or some call it 4-3-3) with Jason going off and JayR & Mayuka playing wide behind Rickie and suddenly it is all one way traffic, all because we had changed systems. imo we were very unluckly not to get a point from the game. The stats showed that we had 11 shots in totals and 6 on target, so 10 of those must have come in the last 35mins playing the 4-2-3-1 system.

When people refer to 4-3-3 it soon becomes 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 when the 2 wide players drop back. My thoughts on 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 ...... At the start of last season we played a very "flexible 4-4-2" against a number of teams that played a "fixed 4-4-2". This worked because it allowed our wide midfield players to come inside whenever they wanted to. (Adam and Guly played the system very well e.g. Guly making a run down the inside left channel (from right midfield) against Millwall to win the game etc.). When the opposition wide players tracked them our fullbacks used the space to overlap. The system worked very well in the first half of last season. However just before Xmas sides changed the way they played against us in that they changed to a 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3/4-5-1) system (or "4-2-diamond"), i.e. 2 anchors in midfield and a "diamond" up front (think blackpool with ince and phillips wide and dobie playing in a withdrawn role to support the front player or the 2 anchors in midfield). This change BY the oppositon caused us a lot of problems: when our wide players came inside there was always a player picking him up; it also meant that the opposition wide players could use the space to make runs between the fullbacks and centrehalves. The first side to use that system as I remember was bristol with their right winger playing the system very well and causing us lots of problems. I think Nigel could see it was causing us lots of problems and at first he tried to change our system to match the oppositions, i.e. after the bristol defeat we played 4-2-3-1 at donny, however Uncle Dave on the radio called it wrong in that he only see the "4-4-2" and TOLD EVERYONE that Morgan was playing as a second striker that day, whereas he was 1 of the 3 advanced midfield players. (imo Uncle Dave just does not understand any system that is not 4-4-2, he is an OLD DINOSAUR as far as tactics are concerned). A number of sides tried playing this system against us in the second half of the season with mixed success, blackpool had the wide players to make it work but others did not and we were able to get enough points from our "flexible 4-4-2" system to go up. Now if you look at PL teams most play some form of 4-2-3-1 (chelsea, spurs etc) or 4-4-1-1 (manure) etc. and they have players on their books who are as good if not better than blackpool or bristol players that caused us problems last season. I can not think of one team in the PL that plays a "fixed 4-4-2" system that we had such success against last year, perhaps qpr ?? Therefore staying with our system from last year was NOT going to work, we had to do something. However there was one big problem, the players we have are not comfortable playing 4-2-3-1 : the 1 up front needs to be MOBILE and run the whole line, have a bit of pace to run in the gaps between the centrebacks and the fullbacks etc.(imo this is not one of Rickie strengths); the 3 attacking midfield players need to be able to make "lung busting runs" beyond the front player (Adam, Jason NEVER run beyond the front player, they play in the space behind the front player). I am not sure what we should do. If we revert to 4-4-2, the oppositions will play 4-2-3-1 with players as good if not better than blackpool or bristol and we will struggle. However if we stay with 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3/4-5-1) some of the players MAY adapt with TIME but others will still look uncomfortable playing the system.

We must keep him, he is a good manager and will grow into a VERY GOOD Premier League Manager with time. The only minor issue is that he NEED A DEFENSIVE COACH to assist him, which means that he will have to "change his small club mentality" with hands on everywhere. Saints are a BIG club and in the Premier League, we should not be cutting corners on the coaching staff.

The problem Saints would have with man for man marking at corners/set plays is that we have 5 or 6 players who offer NOTHING defending , e.g. Adam, Jason, S Davis, Clyne, Fox, Ward-P and ? Morgan. Last year at least when we had Dean H and Guly (He plays the role at the near post VERY well - imo) it gave us the chance of playing man for man but when you have 5 or 6 players who offer nothing it makes it very difficult to man mark at corners. At least when Frazer came on yesterday we had an extra marker we could rely on. It really is time that players like Morgan and Adam STEPPED up a level with their defensive duties. For information I also don't like "Zonal Marking", it is second best to "man for man" (IMO). HOWEVER we current do not have the players to play man for man, and therefore must try the make the best of what we have, which is "zonal marking".

The Zonal Marking from corners is a problem because we do not have enough 6'+ markers in our team, imo we only have 3. As others have said their No20 was allowed to have a free run and header to at least 3 or their 4 corners, because our "zonal marker" has been left flat footed and was easily out-jumped. A midfield player really should be blocking his run to the ball or holding his shirt or giving him a very little push just as he starts his run. The alternative is to go "man for man" but the problem will then be that we do not have enough 6'+ markers and if all are pulled to the near post it will leave a situation like the skates game last year where thorpe outjumps Morgan at the far post and heads the ball back across goal. With the "man for man" setup it is also important that NO ONE switches off, and loses his man, for example imo in the past Rickie has been especially poor at man marking and is often caught ball watching at corners. Basically imo we do not have enough 6'+ markers in the team to play man for man (and p.s. moyes will have noticed that for next week and he has some big players.) and therefore we zone mark (3 on the 6 yard box, 1 near, 1 middle and 1 far) with the full backs/midfields players trying to block runs and fill in the spaces.

Those suggesting Arry as manager must have short memories. When he was here last time it was well known that the players just stood around on the training pitch waiting to be told what to do (e.g. practice set plays, fitness etc) and Arry spent all his time on the phone (either telephone banking for Rosie47 or calling Agents etc). The coaching of the players was NON EXISTENT. Also can you see him working with Reed acting as DoF ? or "signing up" to the modern Sports Sciences that the Don insists on ? or bring Youth Team players into the 1st Team ? NO CHANCE. What Saints need at the moment is NOT a change in manager but :- (a) the supporters to get behind Nigel and (b) IMO they need to bring in a Defensive Coach. As I've said before, AP brought in Wally Downes after a few weeks here, he is now at west ham (3 clean sheets in 4 games) so is not available, but there are others who could come in part or full time to get us to defend as a "unit" and not as "individuals". For example (a) 3rd goal on Sat either the full back or cb should be covering the space as soon as a cb is pulled out. (b) one of the midfield players at the near post should have "stepped in the path" of Van-P so that his run was BLOCKED for manure' 3rd goal and then Jose would have had a clear header away © headers out of our pen area against Skates (Jose), Boro (Hoover), Man City (Foxy) etc SHOULD NOT go out to the D of the pen area but to the wings. Prehaps wGS could come in 2 days a week to work with the defence, or what is Pendrey doing these days, or Joe Jordan or Tony Adams or the other Arsenal defender working for the BBC, or prehaps the Don knows of an Italian coach/defender etc. There are a number of good coaches around who could do a job for us at the moment to sort out the "Sunday Morning Parks League Defending" that I am seeing at the moment.

I know alot on here want to pick on certain individuals for every goal we concede but as a TEAM we are defending poorly and are getting caught out in lots of ONE-on-ONE battles, (winger against Clyde or Fox, midfield runner etc.) which at best we will only win 90% and with the other 10%+ the PL players are making us pay with a goal. Rather than letting the boo-boys picking on one player after another perhaps a better idea IMO is to employ a Defensive Coach. When AP took over in 2009, a month or so later he appointed Wally Downes (now west ham) to work specifically with the defenders. From what I remember until then we had been conceeding sloppy individual goals like now, however within a few weeks we started defending better as a UNIT. Around that time there had an open training session at SMS, where for a period of about half an hour, Wally took the defenders (Perry, Mills, Thomas etc) down the Northam and they practiced where each defender should be to COVER for each other when balls were played into the box from different positions. I love the one touch pass and move Football (going forward) that Nigel has got us playing over the last couple of years and I wouldn't want to lose that but I feel that now we are in the PL we need to employ a Defensive Coach to work UNDER Nigel, either fulltime or say 2 days a week. After all we already have a GK coach, Fitness Coach, a number of bods that look after the Computers etc so why not a Defensive Coach.

ANOTHER bedwetting thread. We have an UNBALANCED fixture list this season. The important fixtures are the eight Home games this year :- Villa, Fulham, Spurs (3 days after away Europa game), Swansea, Newcastle (3 days after Europa game), Norwich, Reading and Sunderland. All 8 are winnable, but I will go for 5-2-1 (17pts) plus a few from away games should leave us in mid table.

No need for any bedwetting threads or posts yet. The important fixtures are the eight Home games this year :- Villa, Fulham, Spurs (3 days after away Europa game), Swansea, Newcastle (3 days after Europa game), Norwich, Reading and Sunderland. All 8 are winable, but I will go for 5-2-1 (17pts) plus a few from away games should leave us in mid table.

Groves was on Radio Solent last night and said something like ...he was injured against the Cheats on Tuesday and was back at Southampton to be assessed by their medical people. He had gone for a scan which had just shown a strain to a knee ligament and would be out for 2 weeks.

They were 3-0 down before he came on. Here are some of the quotes from the FIFA web site http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/matchcast/index.html?matchid=300170265

That the same Wigan side who in there last 10-12 matches have gone to Arsenal and Liverpool and won 2-1. Beaten Manure 1-0 & Toon 4-0 at home etc. In case you didn't see the way they played it was recorded as 3-4-3 but for long periods they played 3-6-1, their 6 in midfield were very good at shutting down our passing game and from what I heard they did a similar job at the other sides mentioned above who tried to pass through midfield. When we changed from our 4-5-1 (4-3-3) to a 4-4-2 (so that our 2 could try and get at their back 3), all there 6 in midfield did was pass the ball around among themselves so that our 4 in midfield ended up chasing shadows. It took them three quarters of a season to get those tactics working but they will stop alot of sides passing through midfield this season. Wet Spam / Stoke tactics might be the way to play against them but I cannot see Nigel changing his ways. Back to the thread there are alot of "points games" before Xmas (Home games against villa,fulham,spurs,swansea,toon,norwich,reading,sunderland) for anyone to panic yet, play the way we know we can and we could win all of them.

There is another section in the FL rules that no one has quoted that says the Football League BOARD have "absolute discretion" to decide on Player Registrations, namely Section 57. Which I read as saying the FL Board can make any decision they want.

Fat Manure fan in the Chapel behind the goal (3 or 4 rows from the front), lasted all of 3 or 4 mins after their first goal. Pointed out to stewards after he celebrated their goal. Marched out by stewards.

The Premier League published the list of all clubs squads within a day of the close of the January window, so I would expect this seasons list to be out early next week. The 2nd Feb List is here:- http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/squad-lists/squad-lists-february-2012.pdf The pdf is made up of 2 parts : the "25 man squad" and then a list of "U21 Players (Contract & Scholars)" where every player under 21 is named. If you are interested it is good way to find out players middle names i.e. AOC - Alex Mark David or Surman Andrew Ronald Edward or Best Leon Julian Brendan. Equally the entry for SG at Liverpool say "Gerrard MBE" p.s. I tried changing the url to "Sept-2012" and "September-2012" but I get 404 so this season's is not available yet.

I think alot of supporters unestimate Wigan and their system. The papers report it as a 3-4-3 system but for long periods yesterday I viewed it as 3-6-1, where they swamp the midfield (not unlike spain) and always have 2or3 players pressing the opposition player with the ball. The 3 at the back is unusual in England and I have always thought as a system it has a weakness with runners running behind the wingbacks. However yesterday we could not get enough "good-ball" high enough up the pitch to hurt them. The few times we did we caused them problems, i.e. Hoover header, Adam shot etc., but in general they wanted us play in our own half and to hit long hopeful balls from deep, which we did. Since the middle of April their results have been :- liverpool (a) W 2-1; STOKE (h) W 2-0; chelsea (a) L 1-2; MANURE (h) W 1-0; arsenal (a) W 2-1; fulham (a) L 1-2; NEWCASTLE (H) W 4-0; blackburn (a) W 1-0; WOLVES (h) W 3-2; and CHELSEA (h) L 0-2. I.e. they have won at liverpool, arsenal and blackburn and have beaten Manure,Toon and Stoke playing that SYSTEM, and after yesterday I can see how. It is difficult to "play through" a 3-6-1 system.

IMO when I hear a silly story like this it means to me we have made an offer for one of their players, and they don't want to sell and our offer is nowhere near their valuation. So they leak a story like this to the press to tell us to f off.

Well said, pretty much how I saw the game. In general ALL the players moved to ball at "walking pace" around the pitch it was as if they were still in "pre-season mode" or unsure of the system they were meant to play. On the Guly subject I have somebody who sits behind me in the Chapel who was slating him within 30 seconds of the kicked off even before he touched the ball. I wonder WHY some of the Guly-haters bother going to games, because they don't seem to watch it. On another subject I didn't see Nicola in his usual seat, which in the past has meant that the Liebherr family were over and he was in a Box with them. Does anybody know whether they were here to see that (non)performance ?

Reading up on Bologna FC they appear to need cash or a buyout every few years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_F.C._1909 When the largest shareholder (Zanetti) took over he said http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/coffee-king-zanetti-explains-bologna-buyout-1333341#CZTbikLWt6SmQW27.99 Also I also wonder if Nicola knows Giovanni Consorte or knows of him ?

This probably is the correct thread but rather than start a new one I've added it here. The Times today said that the Premier League have stated that Pitch Sizes must be the same size this year i.e. 105m by 68m (if possible i.e. no stands). The biggest losers will be Stoke who's pitch size was only 100m x 64m last season for league games. The Premier League site says that St Marys was only 102.41m by 65.84m last season so it appears there may be a change in some of the lines for this season. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/profile.stadium.html/southampton This might be a reason that sides are looking to "smaller players who can hold and run with the ball" rather than "big physical players". The PL have also said that all sides must use the Nike's Maxim ball. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/nike-unveils-new-maxim-ball.html

Fat Sam was on TalkDrivel this morning and said they had FAILED with 95% of their targets this window. http://inagist.com/all/235389254799343617/?utm_source=inagist&utm_medium=rss It was rumoured they were interested in Jay R and Nathaniel C, but that is alot of players to miss out on. It just shows that alot of Clubs are chasing a few players.