West end Saints

I get the different views on Martin but I liked him, and felt he was naive this season, played some decent football but wasn't good enough for this level. At the spurs game it was clear he had to go. Juric is worse. I'm sure we would still be bottom but I'm convinced Martin would have beaten the Derby points target. Juric won't. The players are not good enough. I would need convincing that any of our team would be a starter at any other team. Fernandes maybe, KWP possibly another bottom 6 side, Ramsdale. The others not close. There has been a lack of ability, effort and organisation. Juric has sucked any hope or enthusiasm out of the club. Pointless keeping him, no one would do worse. Any other coach at the club, Lallana, Stephens, I don't care but what is the point of Juric? If there was any doubt his treatment of Fernandes today was disgraceful. The only player who has looked interested, or had the ability or made an effort this season. Probably the only player every fan wants to stay. The only midfielder who has looked close to prem level this season. Taking him off at half time. Then after the game saying you didn't like how he played when the rest were shit. Currently put him level alongside Jones as someone I want to forget was ever anything to do with this club.

Sorry that's not right. Fernandes has had more starts and more minutes than all except KWP since he arrived. Immediately made his mark. He has been our best player since we signed him, and that's as a 20 year old new to the league. His effort and positivity have been amazing considering the results and the team around him, again as a new young player. The old favourites you mentioned had it easy compared to what he has dealt with! If he stays, and we prove the team around him, he would be an absolute star in the championship. But he will have other options.

I put on another thread, Juric questioned how could a well run club at this level, be reliant on its two best players being only 18 (Dibling although think turned 19) and 20 (Fernandes), neither ever played in the prem. I think we are particularly weak in CM We have Downes (played more in league 1 or 2 at age of 26) not close to prem level at all, very poor and poor attitude Ugochuckwu 20, inexperienced and a poor passer Compare that with Everton -Gueye , Mangala, Garner, Whu - JWP, Soucek, Rodriguez, Alvarez, Palquetta Wolves, Traore, Andre, Gomez Palace, Dacoure, Wharton, will Hughes, Even Leicester have Winks and Ndidi, plus Soumare who have prem experience Only players with experience are ones who were bad enough to get us relegated. Keep Fernandes other than that couldn't care about any of them Edit - just seen Man U are losing so should include them as a low prem side, think they have Ugarte, Erikson, Casimiro, Fernandes, Mainoo.

Juric made the point that how can a club have it's best players and 18 year old (assume Dibling who is now 19) and an 20 year old (assume Fernandes). He has made us worse than Martin and we play with no hope. But the players are awful

I don't want him next season. Get rid. Half decent championship / league 1 level player, nothing special, poor character. Easily improved upon

I heard on the radio (not read articles or watched video as not that interested!) that she wasn't investigated, a complaint was made and registered (as it would have to be) and she was informed and told police did not seem it needed investigation/ action. No idea if this is right and fits with other info

It is still very achievable to have a decent season next season IF we improve on recruitment ( manager and players). There are very few I would not want to go (I appreciate we cannot force players to leave or sell a whole squad). But of our current first team I would only miss Fernandes. Literally one player! Others could do a job in the championship but not that fussed. Dibling clearly has potential and although it would good to see him grow into a solid consistent performer, the figures quoted would finance a decent championship team. If Dibling, THB, Ramsdale, Downes, ABK, Paul O, Aribo, Sulemana all went, we would have a big budget to build a strong team. New additions, plus Sugawara, Wood, Edwards, Wellington (Manning) Charles, Fernandes, Edozie, Armstrong, Archer I don't know about likes of Matsuki, Juan, Fraser, Bree, Joachim Kayi Sandra Add a bit of athletism and experience and a decent manager (Rohl?) we would easily win more than we lose

Doubt any (many) of them would be genuine first 11 players at any other team at the moment. Dibling will be, but would be sub getting minutes for experience. Ramsdale's current performances wouldn't get him into many teams. KWP has now had two indifferent prem seasons, clearly has ability but wouldn't be regular starter based on this season for many teams. Sulemana wouldn't be regular starter anywhere else at the moment.

The manager has made it clear: it is resolvable, and he would like it resolved but the ball is in Downes court and he isn't trying to resolve it.

He was decent / good last season, not amazing - in the championship. I think we overpaid for him as he was key to how RM wanted to play and someone who knew him well. He isn't premier league level, not close to people like JWP, Lavia and Romeu (and we finished bottom with that level!) When you are 26 and played more in league 1 than prem league and have been one of our worst players this season it is time to be humble not strop!

I don't think it was the strongest endorsement, left me thinking it was far from definite, and even if I chairman backed a manager that isn't worth much a week later, let alone several months

26 years old. Played more in league 1 than prem. Looked out of his depth in prem league Hasn't earned the right to strop. Paid too much for him.

Plus think Juric sees Dibling (poss even Fernandes ) in a more advanced role, wasn't it Swansea where he played in pretty much as CF?

I didn't pick up the backing of Juric as strongly as you did. I felt he said 18 month contract, whichever division - not there is no way he won't leave

Our players are so poor. Not Re-opening RM debate, but to take the team that was bottom, replace about 9 of them with worse players and expect anything other than being worse was ridiculous. Downes is not premier league level - so to base a team around him is just wrong. To totally rely on an 18 year old as your only goal threat... I pity anyone managing this lack of quality.