The Left Back

Longest thread title ever? And it's turned into a bit of a meander through the familiar and occasionally the new. Here's my take on it... Agreed, I think it is a healthy sign that the club is even looking at this. Staplewood is brilliant but needs updating to stay cutting edge. I agree with this, but have to say it's pretty marginal. I think we may lose one or two lads to Chelsea/Cobham but don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure I buy this. If you were saying Bristol I'd say that was a fair comparison. Brighton is a seaside resort so should be compared to Bournemouth. Southampton is a working port, and so I think Bristol is the template, or Liverpool (which I haven't been to in many years). Southampton has work to do, but I love it. Whoosh with the sweeping generalisations. I am from here so does that make me a fucking prick? And does that make you, family, friends and girlfriend one too? Or are you the exception? An oasis of decent people in a city of pricks? I think you need to row back with this, as it doesn't show you in a great light. It sounds bitter actually; perhaps you should move. If there are fucking pricks in this city could they be the people who don't take pride in the place or care of it. As for shopping, it's not a yardstick I'd personally use to compare cities but of the ones I've been to recently I'd say it was better than Norwich, Brighton and Cardiff. What is causing you to describe it as the worst in the country?

I'd vote for Land of Hope and Glory for the England anthem. Land of hope and glory Mother of the free How shall we extol thee Who are born of thee Wider still and wider Shall thy bounds be set God who made thee mighty Make thee mightier God who made thee mighty Make thee mightier yet Obviously I'm thinking god in the universal sense to encompass religious and theological diversity. In the words of Dave Allen, "may your god go with you". I don't mind GSTQ but it is a bit of a dirge. And I'll not feel so enthusiastic when it becomes GSTK.

...and that we only got promoted from league 1 cos we had 3/4 top premier league players in the team

Just watched the highlights. Adams looked to have a brilliant game and is clearly in good form. His hold up play, coolness and work rate were brilliant, but what I really liked was his finish for the goal. We've said he's not as good at Broja or Ings at finishing but that was their quality and against a fine goalkeeper. Have to say thought that Vesty's 'defending' for that move was criminal. After playing Adams onside he needed to bust a gut to make up for the error. Instead he engages in a slow jog toward the ball, and then puts up his arm when there goal goes in. It's truly bewildering for an international footballer to offer so little - made me think he must have had a few Krona on 2-0. Anyway back to Adams, he'll be buzzing for the Norwich match (as will both Armstrongs) and I can see him scoring there too.

Have I just woken up in a parallel universe? Is Mane about to replace Ralph? Or it at least is Ralph to blame for selling Mane too cheap? Page 99 and 100 on a thread named after our manager and I can’t find him anywhere? Could be just my OCD kicking in I guess but how did we get here?

Agree - this is the way I can imagine it turning out too. The only thing is there is a group of clubs (Villa, Everton, Newcastle, possibly Leeds, West Ham) whose supporters are never going to be happy unless they are there or thereabouts for Europe every year. The mindset comes from an outdated and over inflated opinion of their clubs' status. And they can't all do it. So they spend their time in various states of disgruntlement.

I think you are probably right about this. and I think it's also probably fair to say that not many other managers would have got away with it at Saints. Which begs the question, how did he get away with it? My mate and I have been failing to answer this question since the first 9-0. I remember walking home in the rain that night miserable and shell shocked (I only made it to 7 before I left). But I didn't want Ralph to go. And I didn't want him to go after the second one (which I turned off after we went 3-0 down). Why is that? It doesn't really make sense. And yet he's still here and the majority of fans still support him. It's kind of bonkers if you think about it that way. The only sense I can make of it is what I've posted before (probably on this thread but can't be arsed to look). There is something about both him and the way he gets us playing that is really appealing for us as a club. I think when he arrived we were in dire needed of his positivity, and chest-out passion. He then got us playing football with energy and identity. And we've had spells since where it's been similar. I also like the way he comes across as a person. Yes the Liverpool sob was a bit cringy but he does seem wholeheartedly passionate and optimistic, with out cynicism or meanness. WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get. I also think he is still developing as a manager. and I think we are as a team. So I hope we get to see how that plays out. I know he'll either get poached or sacked - its the way of the game - but I'd like us to complete this chapter rather than have it cut short like it was with Poch and Koeman. He's already been here longer but he's had more to do and had to move slower - so it doesn't feel like it's the end yet.

I've only seen the briefest of highlights but Small looks like the real deal to me. He's got pace, power, technical ability and a fearless Tino swagger. Looking forward to seeing him get a chance in the first team soon. As you may have guessed from my user name I've got a soft spot for left backs having played there myself. And I've been privileged to watch more than my fair share of excellent ones bred and bought by Saints. The first in my time was David Peach and since then it's been pretty much an endless supply of quality and character. Personal favourites since then include Dennis, Kenna, Bridge and Bertrand. I haven't even mentioned Bale and Shaw, and Benali is a legend (though not as good at football as these others). Let's hope Small keeps the tradition going. I've run out of posts for the day @spyinthesky but yes I liked Statham too - the others you mentioned were before my time I think

Yes he does! Thanks for giving me another excuse to watch it. And I don't believe that "the first few seconds" stuff - you just wanted to watch it again and who can blame you!

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I love the pitch side unseen videos the club make. The footage is unconventional and the editing is sparky and engaging. The sound gives you a much better sense of what it's like there than the anodyne noise reduction that you get with TV coverage. For the Villa game it was the nearest I came to feeling how I did at the ground. The chaos of 30k people, the noise of the band, the feel of players up close, the piss-poor fire/light show, the tingling silence during the last post, the eruption at a goal and the oohs and has of misses, the indignation at cheating El Ghazi. I don't know how to embed it here, so you'll have to settle for a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUbKZhu19ls

I'm surprised this thread has still got any momentum. But seeing as it has I'm feeling the need to counter the so-called 'balance/sanity check' put forward by @Red. You say you are not calling for his head - but then you say who dares wins. So I think if it was down to you, and thankfully it is not, Ralph would be gone. It's ok to admit it. You say 4 games ago 'most on here were calling for his head'. If you look back to before four matches ago (about page 84-88 I think) you will see that relatively few on here were calling for his head. And most of those were people who were have been calling for his head like some sort of hobby on and off for most of his tenure. You ask if we have improved since Ralph joined in a way that suggests you don't think we have. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Mine is more aligned with @stevy777_xabove. I accept we've had a very unusual ride over the three years (going top, getting thrashed x2, struggling on long poor runs, going on good runs) so it's hard to know but it just feels to me like we have. There is no secret sauce. It's hard work, skill, inspiration, perspiration, innovation, resilience and luck. You say Pahars would be a great story. But why? MLT, Benali, Dodd, Case, all loved their time here and would make a great story. Is that really the criteria you want to use? I agree with you that Ralph is not the best thing since sliced bread. I don't see many on here who do say that. I just happen to believe that it would be madness to get rid of him now, at this stage of the season, especially on the basis that "who dares wins" and "it would be a great story"

So happy for Jack (and us) that he's is back in training. From my memory it's not often that long term injuries heal quicker than predictions. It will be interesting to see how he is phased back in and whether he'll end up replacing Bednarek. It will be good to have him as an option over the busy period.

Mods please can we re-title this thread to something like; "Place to go for an argument" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. The official attendance was 30k, meaning 2k gaps. There were lots of small gaps but nothing that added up to more than 2k. To say it was 20-22k is delusional. That's a third of the stadium. In order to have that, we would need whole sections to be empty, which was clearly not the case. Sorry to be so confrontational but have you ever seen us play with 20k crowd @Charlie Wayman, it looks and sounds nothing like last night? If anything I though the gaps added up to less than 2k.

Thanks for the appreciation of my earlier note. I was on a real high when I got home last night. Just loved the whole evening (apart from the lack of goals 2 and 3 early on - oh and I thought the fire and light show before the game was embarrassing). There was a sort of raucous mayhem vibe all evening - not sure if it was the alcohol, fireworks or the clear night but chaos reigned. Brilliant banter between rival fans on the way to the game. So much positivity and black humour. As for the individual performances I've read some of this thread now which showed me how differently we see performances. I thought everyone played well and that's the point about a proper team performance. Having said that I thought KWP, JWP and Adams stood out and could all be motm. Salisu and Tino have been head and shoulders our best players this season but they both had their worst game last night in my opinion. They weren't bad, just both had many more mistakes in them than we are used to. Everyone else was in between. I thought Bednarek was much stronger than recent games. Moi was excellent first half when we had the ball, but is a bit lightweight when we don't. McCarthy continues to spread calm - apart from one terrible clearance. His distribution is good unless he tries to go long. It was really the ultimate game of two halves. So much changed in the second half that it seemed like a different match. One example. First half all our goal kicks were played short. Second half all played long. It seemed like a premeditated decision, not sure why we would do that. Last season I would have called it panic and fear but last night it looked like a tactical change. Anyway onward and upward. Thats 10 from 12 in our 5-game mini season. Norwich away to come so plenty to be upbeat about

Just got back. Absolutely buzzing. great atmosphere, proper match under lights. The walk back after a win is a joy. So proud of the team tonight. Three things. 1. In the first half we were as fluid as I've seen us. Everyone was on the move, we just played them off the park. Not a huge amount of clearcut chances but the quality of the play with the ball was exceptional 2. Second half much expected backlash from Villa. But we weathered it and played without the ball with strength, resilience and heart. The game got messy and Villa really are an ugly Wimbledon-style team to defend against but we had the character to stand up to them. We've been moaning about the lack of leadership, courage, identity, organisation, strength and character in holding on to a lead. We showed it tonight. 3. There's a togetherness and spirit among the players that is very encouraging. There's no stars out there, they play for each other. They are problem-solving together and constantly talking. They adapted to Villa's changes and Ralph's and they just look like a really tight group now. That's all I can ask for from my club. But seeing as it's near Christmas perhaps I can ask for more goals because these 1-0s are hard on the nerves.

Since relegation they've received £108m in transfers out, while spending £4m, so I think that should come off the total to make it more meaningful. That takes their net spending down to about average for a team coming up to the division and spending to stay. When they first came up they had (something like) 5 or 6 players who's journeyed all the way from league 2 with them. For me it's a great story and almost unparalleled. Sure they lost their way after the first couple of years in the Premier league and spent poorly - but we shouldn't be the ones to judge; that would be hypocritical. We just got lucky by selling assets while not getting relegated. My cousin is mad Bournemouth and he is the first to concede that the fairytale ended sourly, Howe probably should have gone a year or two before when he could have got a really good job and their recruitment needed someone like Crocker. But what Howe did for the club is written in the history books and I think its wrong to disparage it.'

I'm really looking forward to this game. Although whenever I feel this good about a game I then get really nervous that we'll blow it (in a sort of 'its the hope that kills you' sort of way. I think I would start with the same 11 as last week. Possibly Stu in for Moi if he's fit enough. No need to rush Broja back in after an injury, he's a great option off the bench. I'm really pleased Ings isn't playing. As well as the ex-player-come-back-to-haunt-us thing, he is a class striker. Also it can be distracting for the fans, who should be focused on supporting our team. Also happy Konsa is suspended. My mate who's a season ticket holder reckons he's much better than Mings and is the main reason for their (previous) defensive strength. Someone might be able to help here, but I'm sure we must have a great record of being the last team managers face when they get sacked. Something to do with losing to us being the last straw. Can see Smith going the same way if they are outplayed and beaten well.

I've got my doubts about Dave's honesty. Luckily there's a way to prove whether we can trust his word. @Pilchardsyou are going to take the wall down to see if there is a scarf I'm sorry @Dmanbut I can't just bring myself to believe what you write. There's a pattern to your contribution which has me questioning your motivation. If Ralph wasn't here I can imagine Howe being one of the favourites for the job, and it wouldn't surprise me if we went for him. I don't believe this revisionist history that has him labelled a poor manager who bought his way to success and then failed at the top level. He undoubtedly had a major role in what was an extraordinary story, both to get to the premier league and then stay there much longer than expected. He wouldn't personally be my choice but we could do, and have done, worse.

I think you are on to something here, so I'll try to build. I think he's added more than "a bit of bite and tackling technique" - for me it's more like a lot rather than a bit. I agree that his instinct is for the safer pass. I wonder if it's more psychological than anything. When I've seen him play well for England and on his best games for Saints, he is more dynamic on the ball, more progressive in his intention and prepared to take a risk. He gets beyond the ball, influences play in and around the box and makes and scores goals. So I think he has the ability. But too often for us, when we are struggling, our psychology is for safety over risk taking and it's frustrating to watch, particularly when we are chasing a game. I'd apply the same criticism to Redmond and wonder if it is a more systemic issue than one of ability. For that reason I could actually see JWP doing well in a better side than us. For example, I think he could replace Fred at United or, at a push, Kovacic at Chelsea or Henderson at Liverpool - not that I think he'll end up at any of those places. What he also has, that doesn't often get a mention, is 9 years premier league experience and the hard graft that entails. Not many just 27 year olds (happy birthday for yesterday) can say that. So arguably he is yet to peak.

We could be conflating several issues here. Older v younger, pro-stats v anti-stats, progressive v traditionalist, player v non-player. I'm 57. I've been in the Kingsland stand since the stadium was built. We've had a core of about 15 people round us that whole time, and have got to know them all pretty well. (during the dark times it's one of the things that keeps me renewing). I say this because the cross-section of the group I sit with does not conform to the stereotypes above. There is plenty of disagreement, particularly over the merits of Redmond, keep ball v more direct, Stephens v Bednarek, leaving a man up when we defend a corner - the list goes on. But the stereotypes are different. There's a young lad who's views on the game I imagine line up pretty will with someone like @Turkish. And there is a granddad who talks about Paine and Davies, but considers comparison between eras meaningless and so is rooted in the game today. We've got a guy my age who seems to know all the stats - a sort of John Motson type and a woman who swears like a trooper and loves to see fisticuffs. I guess what I'm saying is that it's risky to make generalisations and can often end up in a fairly pointless debate. Oh and I guess, to bang this old drum again, it safe to say that although we have disagreements in the stadium we never end up finding the need to disrespect those we disagree with. There's often banter, but we realise we have to sit next to each other every match, and besides we actually quite like each other and share the ups and downs of the club. There is a truism that we feel able to insult people when we are on-line in a way that most of us wouldn't in real life. Sorry for a second post today having a go at people's behaviour on here. I must be in that sort of mood. PS forgot to say. I don't see Broja as a poacher at all. The word I would use is a finisher. I think I understand the suggestion that he doesn't create goals for others in the way that someone like Lambert was good at. But I just haven't seen enough of him to know. But he does look like someone who will be an excellent finisher.

Blimey it's all kicked off on here since I last checked. The question posed in the thread title is a simple one. I could choose to answer it with an opinion based on my experience of watching. If I was doing that I would say yes we definitely a better team with JWP playing. I didn't always think that but since Ralph took over he has developed considerably from being a technically strong but physically weak squad filler to one of the first names on the team sheet. He is our captain, our engine, an all-rounder with excellent dead-ball skills. He was outstanding over the last two years, so anyone judging him purely on 8 games this year is being myopic in my view. Diallo has been brought into this debate I guess because he came in when JWP got suspended. For me he has definitely got something about him and I hope he stays and develops. I've seen hime play I guess about 20 times and he's been a bit of a mixed bag. When we are playing well he is fluid and dynamic. When we are not playing so well I wonder if he isn't a bit lightweight and not yet able to impose himself on a game the way JWP and Oriol can? I'd need to look again but am struggling to think of a stand-out performance when others were below par. Not sure if this has been said elsewhere but it's not a binary choice in my view between JWP and Diallo. I could easily imagine them playing in the same team, either when Romeu is out or as part of a three. I think there will be some games where a 4-3-3 would be a good option and I'd definitely have all three in, with Oriol central and slightly deeper, JWP right and Diallo left. As for the stats, if any more proof is needed that their primary function is to validate something that you already believe to be true than look no further than this thread. For me the only stat that would help is no use in this case. Points per game when JWP plays versus when he doesn't would statistically answer the question if it was not for the fact that he's played virtually every game since Ralph joined and comparing to previous regimes would render the data unrepresentative. And finally, do you actually enjoy resorting to "I'm right, you're wrong" tit for tat trench digging with personal insults being lobbed about? If you do then fine and it's just me that finds it all rather pathetic. But if you don't then please find a way to shake hands at the end of the match. From my years of stalking on here I would say that @eggand @Minskare both passionate Saints fans who've contributed a great deal to the sum of thinking on here but we are on the same team FFS.

I agree with this. The header was not great (given Adams missed one too I can imagine they'll be practising a bit more this week). But Armstrong's first touch, pace, movement, awareness of space and team play are better than I imagined. I could see him getting a lot of goals for us once he settles.

Fair point and I'm enjoying the challenge to my thinking. My first saints hero was David Peach, and since then we've been blessed with some of the best penalty takers in the league. But I would still draw a distinction between penalties during a game and shoot outs. And it is the latter I have a problem with. I realise of course they are not actually a lottery, I simply don't believe they are worthy of the analysis and and post-mortems they get.

I don't think it's hate, and certainly not jealousy. If there's a criticism of fans (not just this forum) is that we tend to rush to binary judgements about players. So players can be written off far too quickly (in the current squad without breaking sweat I'm thinking both keepers, all four central defenders, all midfielders and several strikers). My instinct is that Theo is done and is unlikely to add much value on the pitch from here on. On the other hand he got a contract from the club and gets picked by the manager and so there's possibly something I'm not seeing. I realise a moderate view sounds like sitting on the fence. I'm hoping he doesn't get picked this weekend because I've seen nothing this season to warrant a place in the team. But I wouldn't write his footballing obituary just yet. Even Shane Long had a decent cameo on Tuesday!