Frank's cousin

True.. But was nice to think we had finally turned a corner and were no longer about 'survival' - yep the club will always survive no matter who comes and who goes, but for once it was nice to be envied as fans of a progressive and upwardly mobile club, rather hast another prem also ran happy to just feed off the scaps from the elite table....

Which is a fair and reasonable response. All the current mud slinging from both sides fails to see the reality of the situation as emotion leads the brain into meltdown... You cant blame Poch for going when the very reason for his joining us disappeared with NC. I dont hate or dislike RK or KL for not being NC, and I cant comment on whether they really know what they are doing or what they plan until we see how things unfold. However, I suspect it will be less that we are used to... maybe out of naivety rather than desire, but I do think i will be dissapointed that a squad that had so much potential under Poch and NC, is likely to be dessimated by August no matter who we bring in. Its all very well those fans who say "feck em the club will always be here no matter what' which is fine if your talent pool and resources restrict any progress. Watching potential never be realised is what is heartbreaking. And therein lies the problem as far as i am concerned... KL and RK whatevere they have tried, whatever they have offered, etc they have failed to hold onto a manager that was possibly able to keep this group together a little longer...

I'll make this quick before Turkish and CB Fry come along, accuse me of being drunk andi ignore what could bean interesting discussion to score a few playground points.... The question i would ask fans and wiser folk than me, is given that our turnover is getting close to 120 mil per annum, that this could grow a little more with improved commercial revenues (you promised us his Ralph), and that with such an excellent academy and potential of a young and developing squad, how far do you think that could take us with Poch at the helm, the style we play with a couple of experienced additions in the LOvren mould, luck and the wind in the right direction? See its my belief that we could in the next couple of years, with that revenue (eg without further cash injections from KL) do even better than we have to date... IF there is the desire to do so, and the appropriate use of the budget. I just dont think we need to spend any of her cash - we just need to spend what we earn and thus hold onto the likes of shaw for another couple of years and then sell him for 40mil when the next kid is ready. What I would see as such a waste, is if Kruger and Kat don't have the imagination to see that, or the ability to get the likes of Poch and the players to believe in it. NC may have proven to be full of sheidt with dreams of Champions league... who knows and who cares now, but if nothing else he got MP and the plying staff convinced to stay and believe it was possible.

"Help us Obi Les Kenobi' you're our only hope"

Couple of things, maybe we should reserve judgement until; a) more than 'sky sports understands in advanced talks headline is only followed up with spurs make him their main targe... b) we know his reasons for going.... Seems to me that if he goes it's less about loyalty and more about having the side broken up... We'll see what happens, but I dot currently have any faith in our board if they have even granted him permission to talk to spurs...

Only by a few over reactionaries... He came out and made a clear statement - he was surprised at the obsession he over contracts when he had over a year to go... He up tracked to the club and he would sit down and discuss the issue after the end of the season... He will want to know the plan before extending his contract which is common sense let alone fair given what happened at Espanyol. if he goes, tin will be because we cannot guarantee he will have the resources to progress from this season. And I for new could not blame him under those circumstances.

or its it's a sad state of affairs that we now seem to have a culture where everyone seems desperate to comment on everything in public .... Oh... ;-)

Of course could be that POCH actually spoke the truth and dismissed all the guff as he has another year to go so loads of time before he needs to think about his next step.... ? Feck knows own what's going on. No one on here, and no one at Spurs forum... I am just hoping now that we can all fawn over the path of righteousness displayed by Turkish, in being so wonderfully confident in our new Board (as I his posts dot contain any hint of sarcasm, or **** take, no sireee) and don't need to criticise them for any incompetence...

Exactly why why fans should have NO say in running football clubs - emotion ruling decisions. The club like any 'company' will recognise the value of MP. Both in terms of his ability, and importantly the signals it sends to others if he is left to go. Companies won't treat good employees like that, as they recognise good employees are sort after and there will be offers from competitors. Without any emotion, the club will weigh up all the factors ; what they need to offer to match or better offers from else where, relative to what they believe him to be worth/ impact of his departure..... And quite within his rights, MP will have to decide whether he development and ability to do his job is better here or elsewhere... All that is normal in the 'real world' where fan emotion is not part of the decision making process. The question we should be asking is how much to the board really rate him or care? If he is too greedy then, yes he should leave as there will be a limit to what is affordable and sensible.... But, I don't think it's his personal remuneration that is an issue. More about what resources he has available in playing staff staff and funding to deliver what he believes is an appropriate level of success. The 'working environment' plays a big part, and I am hoping RK and KL both recognise what they have, it's sporting potential and the financial benefits of supporting this group, as that potential does no come arpund that often for a club of our size that can not simply go and buy it. Its not that fans are not realistic, or that they demand success all the time and expect KL to waste 100s of mils a year... Despite what some on here believe - the disappointment would come from not supporting MP when we have such obviously potential to do even better next season, and throwing away that rare opportunity.

hah just shows what a dumb feck you are, once again responding in your rather bitter and twisted angy way without haing bothered to read, comprehend or absorb anything from the post.... 46mil? The 33 mill equity conversion INCLUDED the original 13mil that Marcus was paying creditors.... The ONL reason why KL was involved in that equity conversion so much later was because of the length probate period following Markus's sad early death. There is nothing blasé about pointing out that Markus would have intended this to bespectacled as he always hinted the appropriate budget would be made available.... Markus was a man of means who considered his 13mil takeover a 'rather modest investment' .... you can't just wind it in can you? , obsessed with steamrolling your sarcastic, bitter opinion over all... Without even bothering to actually read what anyone else thinks or understand why they hold differing views to your own....

Dont you know? If Turkish keeps repeating it on any thread that the 'dwarf' bottled it, it will become fact no matter what.... I am just interested to know why he thinks a CEO leaving a company because the shareholder will not agree either to fund or support the business strategy is such a weird and 'bottling' thing... When it's common in business. But then this is a perrson who is most happy making up pathetic insults about 'drunk' posters and thinks it's funny, as opposed to just showing what a rather nasty piece of work he is... Its loke the the 'bankrolled by KL myth' that he also pedals and hopes becomes 'fact' (well gullible followers of his like Hypo believe it to be the case ...) when to date it's only been the 33 mil equity conversion including the 13 mil originally paid to creditors - the money most would accept Markus put aside for the promotion push... Since then it's been budgeted from the clubs revenue.... But hey when Turks says it's fact, there is no need to produce any balance sheets or accounts to show capital injections from KL...

its a shame that so many posters seem to be basing their opinions on Myths.... So maybe we should bust a few. 1. We have NOT just landed an 83 mil bonus. We have had an in crease of about 33 mil in TV nd broadcaster ing rights due to our position and the increased levels of the contracts for the 13/14 season. Not sure what we budgeted for, but suspect we will be close to that given the expectation of NC at the start of the season. Not sure exactly how and when this sis paid out, but I think we will already have had a chunk of this which has been used as part of this seasons budgets , but not sure... In effect out Turnover for 13/14 will be around 110mil when all revenue streams are included. 2. 'Prem years bankrolled by a billionaire' - er not really very accurate. As far as I am aware from official exported figures the total investment of Liebherr cash to date is still 33 mil which was the equity conversion and INCLUDED the original 12-13 mil Markus paid the creditors to take control. It would be fair to assume this was a reasonable amount Markus would have allocated for the prem push. KL to her credit has honoured this. however, since then, the money spent has been money the club has earned, or had advanced from the BVI etc and we see that because of the need for BVI short term loans, and like all other clubs we have spread the transfer fees over a number of years.... Why the need for loans if KL was bankrolling us.... If someone knows more fair enough, but I was not aware of any additional capital injection.... of course NC may have requested some additional capital injection, especially as he voted against the new prem finance restrictions etc... On the grounds that it prejudiced clubs who had means but not yet benefitted from such financial investment, when the top clubs already had... But requesting or expecting investment to complete a progress plan, is not some ridiculous 'demand' - all businesses look for capital investment from various sauces, many from shareholders.... And if used tofu d infrastructure freeing revenue streams for improved contracts and transfer budget, then is it really such a crime for NC. To have requested such support? Quite rightly it is KLs prerogative what she does with her money, and therefore she is perfectly entitled to say no, and it's also then quite normal for a CEO to resign or leave if it means the development plans can not be implemented... There is no moral right or wrong here, just different desires from NC and KL. Neither are devils or saints, just different desires both equally valid. But I would suggest that KL should recognise that a football club needs to progress.. It can't stagnate and even worse, when a club has potential to get better, something that does not come about every season, ( for a club of our size) to waste it through a lack of investment would be painful. I suspect KL is stuck in a difficult place. She may not want to invest more as it's not her real passion, can understand this, and she might even want to sell, but I suspect she is also torn emotionally since it was her father's desire to see the club progress, and that is quite an emotional tie. I hope that rather than simply dismiss NCs words as someone here have done, she recognizes that there is a fair amount of truth in what he has said, and adopts some of those approaches and lest this generation reach its full potential - if she does, it may well also prove an astute business decision as WE get the full value when our stars are eventually sold, and not someone else. PS. Hypo - if you are going to try and insult me, try and be original. Trotting out FRY's and. Turks fable led 'comedy' myth of being a drunk, as pathetic, as it is pretty despicable.. You must be really proud of yourself with that effort, so just go f*** yourself.

depends what he says to be honest. I have no issue if 'correcting' issues around finance.. Thing he at least deserves a right of reply on that front... Just hope he is not going postal and starting g a public slanging. Not wrongful if he is just disappointed that he was unable to continue what had been started ( and like most is suspect it was more financial than anything else - although not in the 'I want to spend 100s of millions ' way that some seem keen to spread). will be disappointed in him if we start getting dirty laundry, but let's wait and see when all is revealed...

Always find it amazing how some folk can bottle up so much bitterness and hate red for people they don't know.... Or maybe I should go and dig up some of your more measured posts on Rupert Lowe, before you joined the forum 'gang' and lost all ability to actually form or hold your own opinion...?

It may well be the case, that it is indeed a load of PR guff, but I would suggest you actually wait and read it first and then ask some intelligent questions for a change rather than simply jumping into an immature and frankly Juvenile mud slinging irrespective of what it actually says. Given that we all know it will be a bit of PR mouthpiece and in terms of responding to the financial criticisms (if he does), then he is entitled and both sides of the story tend to be better before jumping to conclusions... BUT the question I ask is WHY is he still interested in playing the game, unless he is planning something else in football? That would be the question Ben should be asking - even if offended by the criticisms, I doubt he would lose any sleep over it unless it impacts on his next plans.

Indeed... Incredible the ignorance shown on here... all large deals tend to be structured over 2-3 years, sometimes longer - and as has been pointed out already it's why we still have fees to pay from previous transfers etc.... Jeez... As to it being a done deal... Well we do not know if Manchester United have even been granted permission to speak to Luke... Normally when that happens it announced ... So odds are it could not be more more boll of if it came wrapped in soft leather sack and was swinging between the hind legs of a donkey...

Why? It's nothing like that at all, more like a load of unknown folks have spread gossip about your Mrs, and you have refused to listen to her side yet... There might be nothing in it as she says you guys are married, so why the lack of Trust? MP is understand contract for another 12 months. Quite rightly he is probably wanting to see what is happening with the squad this summer before committing to a new longer term contract. Take away the tools to see progress next season, then you take away the motivation to continue. Only fair he might consider alternatives if we can't offer any guarantees yet on who will stay.

Interesting, but nothing we have not really been saying before. The key has always been how to hold onto prized talent long enough to get some benefit from it on the pitch and also ensure we get the full value... Eg, the Spurs level of renumeration for a Bale etc. I would much rather Kreuger and KL spent whatever they might this summer, ( if there is any net spend) on improved contracts that shows we are fighting to keep everyone for just a little while longer, than bring in new players... Despite the talent we have, I still think we have improved because we are a gelled side, and yet also have the potential to get better over the next few seasons as the youngsters get more experience and the squad depth increase she's with addition youngsters such as Reed etc coming through. Contrary to what the likes of CB. Fry or Turkish think, I am not after 6th place or mega success. BUt I do not think it's too much to expect for a club to recognise it has a unique crop, that with potential, that won't come around very often, and to do everything in its power to try and keep it tog there long enough for is to see some benefit - improvement is not about what place we end up, but for me a points target. 62-65 is not beyond this side if they stay together and with luck maybe a few more... Loose a few key players and we could be struggling again to reach 45 or so or worse... Unrealistic expectations when we have no talent or have been struggling with journeymen is one thing - nowt wrong with wanting to see the board recognise what we have any seeing what we can do .

not only are you quite simply the most unpleasant arrogant tw a t left on here, you are obviously the most stupid as well.... You obviously can't read or understand, yet like most ignorant fools jump in and spout your opinionated patronizing garbage at every opportunity. 1. No where have I demanded we spend an extra 40% on wages you daft prat, I merely estimated the 13/14 wage bill as up to 30-40 % more that 12/13, the last season we have official figures for.... Which would give us a current wage bill of around 60mil against a forecast revenue of approx 110mil... Which at a 55% ration is not worrying. as for 'drunk old Franco' well if that's the best you can come up with, it makes you an ever sadder individual. I am simply astonished that anyone can get so caught up in themselves over opinions on football that they are so unpleasant and miserable bitter human beings. Seriously you need help if you find such comment either amusing or satisfying.

Nobody is demanding she spend her money. Several are, however, interested in what strategy there is to with respect to investing the Clubs commercial and TV money, and how this might impact on whether we continue to progress, or stagnate. There is an inconsistency between what the club have said re-finance and what the released accounts suggest etc. so it's difficult to know what our reals situation is, and thus what as fans we might think is the best direction to take. My take is that we are in OK shape. Yes we have probably some 40mil in liabilities on transfers and the academy to be spread over the next couple of years. Given that that 13/14 revenue will be I excess of 100mil, I believe the club could self sustain these payments, nits contractual obligations and still have funding available for transfers and contract improvements without the need to sell... I could be wrong, but that's going on the accounts from last year and assuming some 30-40% wage increases fir this season (which may be overkill) So no need for KL to spend her money... Unless you are suggesting you would be comfortable for the clubs cash to be taken out of the club and as fans we have no right to think that would be a bad thing?

Great post, clear opinion and argument that deserves a measured response from one of the 'visionistas' ;-) Some have suspect deliberately failed to see the difference between supporting a man, and being supportive of a strategy/ approach to progress. I am unashamedly supportive of the ambition and direction NC was trying to deliver. The REAL version, which was always about sustainable growth based on a foundation of developing talent via a top academy. Not sure anyone can really disagree with that. But for that to we effective in ensuring progress, things need to happen; 1) we need to have a stable financial background so that we can resist advances for our talent until it's that little bit older so we get the max value and benefit from them whilst they are here, 2) we need to resist the 'cash in now' approach, and c) understand that we will need some additions as you win nothing with kids etc.... To me that is a sound approach and achievable. It's not a pep dream, unrealistic or ridiculous that any of that is not possible. All NC did was be 100% behind that and in his personal belief that it could yield spectacular results and make us more competitive - everyone quite rightly has their own opinion on the relative probability of achieving and success through that approach and this forum seems to have the full spectrum form the extreme cynics to the Barry optimists. I just happened to like the philosophy of not simply accepting our place, and enjoyed the infectious enthusiasm and belief that it was possible. - again some find that 'ridiculous' , I would suggest it's just a more Positive frame of mind aligned to the fact that no matter how much you support a club, the ultimate aim has to be about progress and success - it's what sporting competition is all about... If some just want to take part, that's up to them, but the thought that there is a ceiling for most clubs, is depressing and will only see the prem eventually lose it's appeal. So despite the **** take over my previous post, I stand by it. KL and her late father should always have EVERY fans respect for what they have done. But the jury is out whether I can be supportive of the direction and approach they will take. Gemma's or should I call you Betty? , I expected a bit more humour/better from you. CB Fry is simply a sword namer and as such no longer dignified with any response.

First up, there can be no doubt that KL and her family have done great things for the club. However, I am not sure 'support' is the right word though because one can support some decisions made and not be happy with others... A better word is 'respect' - she will have that from me whatever decisions are made now or in the future, simply because she has earned that through the honouring of her father's legacy. That does not mean though that as a fan I can't be unhappy or disillusioned at the strategies or approaches the board now takes, should they move to 'comfortable' with a prem place without any real vision to see year on year progress, which is surely the aim of any sporting individual or club. And it's year on year progress that should be the aim. For that means targeting 62-65 points next season. To achieve that we need consistency, and to keep the majority of talent we have and ensure we find adequate replacement for the talent we lose. The start has to be retaining MP. Not because he is some god like irreplaceable football genius, but because of the consistency he brings and in retaining the squad as much as possible. It really should be a no brainer... And I suspect that the only delays in ensuring MP extends his contract is that until now, the right noises have not been been made re squad retention or re-investment. I don't believe those who suggest MP wants assurance to spend huge amounts; he took the Job on knowing it was always about youth and being through talent... But probably had assurances that we would not do an espanyol on him and sell it all the moment it showed any promise.. Once bitten etc. This is where KL and the new board can show their intentions and commitment to the next 5 years. Not by providing millions, but by resisting the advances to cash in, and recognising that we can only progress if we let MP and this squad realise their potential. It will also unite and cement the fan base in support of the direction they are taking. So, I can say I support KL, have respect for her, but the jury is still out on whether I can/should support her plans or strategy.

You old forum din you, how much of a dimwit you must be faro falling for this Guff... They won't catch CBFry out that easy you know 'don't tell em your name Pike' .... Being ever so slightly self important and serious for a moment, the Truth is we simply do. It know what KLs long term ambitions are, nor what strategy they wish to adopt in order to achieve it. There are circumstances and strategies wher selling two players and raising close 60mil would be necessary and potentially positive and allow us to build on where we are... But without knowing, it looks depressing, as we can predict others wishing to go, and manager instability. Yes we have wonderful 'open' communication from the board about the really important stuff such as the kit, but nothing on direction, focus or strategy for the next few years. If we really need to raise 60mil to pay for the academy, and 20mil for new players, fair enough, most would see the logic in that.... But I don't believe we do, and I don't believe we need to sell if we don't want to....not yet anyway. So the article does resonate with me as well, but being a din in CBFry's opinion is a badge of honour I wear with pride.

Just so you know, I am playing the post and not the poster.... The OP was not vey good... Because it does not contain any of the reasoning you subsequently go on to use in its defence. As such it comes across as at best naive, and at worst a wind up attempt. Had the post focused on the issue that the manager/coaching had not yet found the best solution in how to ensure Adam was most effective, or that his return from injury was likely to have has an impact on his most recent performances, then the post may have Ben less subject to some of the abuse... But I suspect the post was keen to encourage this much more rigorous and robust debate no?

Sadly I think we just might be... And we will go from 3 players in the England Team to one, despite Luke and Adam not having played for their new clubs... Real shame.. Not least their value increasing.. Our board will deny stupidity by claiming it gives us more time to find the right replacements... And then sign nobody before the World Cup. I am so desperate to be wrong, laughed at and will be more than happy to have the **** taken out of me as some bed wetting paranoid arse if so.... come on KL and Krueger, show us that you know about this business and how to really do what is best for SFC.