Frank's cousin

i think the inference is that she could not get what she felt the club was worth.... We know she converted 38 mil to equity + it's been hinted there were additional loans from KL and BVI.... What we don't know is whether these were to cover overspend, or IMHO more likely covering cash flow for the infrastructure and transfers in advance of prem payments.... The last published accounts suggested we were in good financial health... What will be definitive is to see how how cash KL pays out to herself in dividend - whether this if the loans paid back or loans + equity return... Leaving a lean but 'debt free' asset. We like to assume the club was wither around 120mil before all the sales, but reality is if no one is willing to pay that it's not... I suspect any NC VC backed offer would not have been more than 50mil... So if Kat takes out 50-60mil and sells for 50, she gets her big investment return.... But who is going to buy a club with no players heading for relegation? yes it's her club to do with as she wants, but I doubt very much that her late father would have treated the club like this if he wanted out..... Sorry but some of us were worried when NC left.... Yet we were told it would be a new era and we would be better for it.... The club is fecked and ALL the board ate complicit. That is not bed wetting, it's realism. It's no longer about broken dreams of potential success, it's about a club with nothing left. The board have destroyed anti reason or desire for players to stay or Jin and there is nothing the few remaining idiotic sycophants can say that justifies what has happened

Fair and reasonable assessment Nick, but I think there is an issue that you may have overlooked. That of progression. Yes we may have enough with another couple to at least be safe as in the Adkins year. And had we just finished a couple of places above that last season, I don't think we would see anywhere near the levels of discontent with some of the sales we have seen. The problem IMHO is that given how much we improved and progressed with arguably only really Lovren and Wanyama providing any new impetus, with the rest coming from players improving and developing + coaching! the fact remains that now that experience! team ethic that took 5 years to build has gone in 5 minutes and it's that that can't be replaced in a few months no matter how good RK is. For the first time since the early 80s, we hay seempn consecutive years of genuine progress. I think we all acknowledged that we had not even reached the full potential of this squad, which could have gone on to even better things this season.... Had it stayed together. We will now never know what might have been possible, and for me and maybe others that loss is why it grates so much.... Especially when IMHO, we could have done more to keep it together.

Er.... This is fan forum... You know where different opinions are presented. One persons stfu, is another's head in the sand. jeez some of you are so sensitive to any expression of concern over what is happening... You on the fricken payroll or something? It can't be because you are that naive surely, or maybe it's denial ? The eh smart action is not to stfu, but to discuss the various opinions on a 'discussion' board. If you don't like what you read then surely the smart thing to do is provide a balance and intelligent reply to try and convince others that they are mistaken, of f*ck off and let folk debate without the childish and pathetic constant whinging about other folks opinions not being the same as your own... You just sound like a 5 year old who can't get their way....

Not quite. You are right in that we have no idea of why certain decisions have been made, be it the current appointments or not appointing Williams etc.. Indeed the current approach to selling and recruitment could very well be part of a master stroke strategy that none of s bed wetter saw coming that will yield amazing results... If it does, fair play and we I will be the first to shout about my misery and negativity being the rule of ignorance about anything to do with football. But... We can only comment on what we see. We can't judge KL and the board by the reasons for the decisions, as we do not know them and they are not communicated.... So we can only judge on what're actually se happening to the squad. 1. IMHO, a board we greater strength and conviction and belief in their ambition, would have Ben able to convince most of those who have left or are about to to stay one more season at least.. Maybe one or even two may have gone, but with the right communication of the hunger and belief in what could be achieved, I do think we could have seen an improvement this season... Some won't agree, fair enough, but for the likes of Shaw and chambers, age is on their side.... 2. Domino effect - think the board were naive in their thinking and not really aware that once two went the rest would want to follow. Lovren is best example, he IMHO would have stayed had we not lost all the others....chambers, Schneiderlin as well... 3. The mass sell off- can only speculate as to why given the premise that the accounts will be fine... With the cost incurred for Staplewood and transfers being affordable over 2-3 years spread, considering the revenue increases - so I won't, but I can't believe there is ANYBODY who thinks that even with a decent set of replacements (and we were all aware of a lack of squad depth last season, let alone for the coming one with the rate we are selling v aquiring) we will be competitive from the off...we won't. And yet we all know how unforgiving this league is... We will struggle. Some all that bed wetting ******.... Yet it's a realistic abscess meant of the squad at this time, irrespective of who else arrives between now and 1 Sept. .... REALISM, something we are told by the forum 'elite' is what is all important, and that dreams and ambition must be restricted by it.... KL and this board, COULD have done more to keep some of those who have left or are about to. It should be clear as daylight that the culture/ ambition or desire, is not enough to convince these players to stay. ..... But he it's OK, we must let them go if they want to play champions league.... So we had 6-7 players wanted by CL sides, yet for some we are still Too far away from such a 'mad dream' ....

WTF? Have you been drinking? .... So hilarious is it not? Oh and Buctootim, surely even you can appreciate its difficult to get to home games 500 miles away?

haha that response suggests you would might struggle to compete with Luke Shaw in the brains department; Which of the following is it: 1. You did not bother to read the post, and are just making crap up base don innate prejudices and preconceived ideals 2. You read it, but failed to understand it - as indicated by your suggestion that 'Kat should spunk a load a cash' which was never even remotely suggested - suggesting you failed miserable in comprehension classes 3. You read it, understood it, but simply chose to ignore what was said and responded with Bol lox anyway 4. You can't read because seriously, what a tool. Not agreeing with my opinion is fair enough, many on here don't, but chose to enter a reasonable discussion and debate... You, Fry, Turks and VTTT et al, seem to find joy in your idiotic responses. Utterly pathetic really. I hope your kids do t read the Sh*t you write! because trust me! it's not an example you should be proud of...

So what's happened? You were adamant we would be better off under Kat and her merry band.... This place is like Max Frisch's 'Beidermann und die Brandstifter' - an utter refusal to believe the sh it that is happening despite the blatantly obvious signs. We are not selling because we have to... Kat is selling because she wants to...

Haha, a, you need to peddle a new myth matey, that one is getting a bit stale...was a crappy slur to start with mind. Surely someone of your vast intellect could have come up with something a little better? All we need now is the 30 something, going on 68 Fry to turn up with own cantankerous growl and the evening will be complete.... Right, hot summers evening, a maybe a cold beer is called for, if that's OK with you, just throne mind hey?

'Bingo' you our never fail ;-) top man

Gotta bite, , I know I shouldn't, but you need feeding. First up, let's put the CoC junkies bit to bed - let's see if you can get this first time... Yes I know it can be a struggle, but try, go on... You will feel so much better for it, I promise you. So that we can not get side tracked let's get the Cup thing out of the way. POCH fecked up. If you want to suggest deliberately to get knocked out, that's your opinion - personally, if think he underestimated the opponent and stuck out a side he thought would win... But let's agree to disagree and move on... Cortese... Ah yes the arch villain of the piece. Such a devious Machiavellian chancre he'll bet on CL by spending Dear Katharina's hard earned inheritance - what a filthy blagard he be.... Evil to the core as not only was he wanting to turn poor Kat into a pauper, but he made us play in red as well.... But no, these were not the worst of his crimes .... His real serious evil was his stated ambition.... One that you, Fry and a few of your little possy seem to struggle with because you seem to be unable to look at ambition objectively, or understand what it means. Ambition - a desire to achieve something - the setting of a goal or series of goals and if circumstances allow, doing what you can to achieve said aims.... Now, surely we can agree that ambition is a good thing? Yes? ...tell me, what were your thoughts when in 2003 our dear chairman Lowe refused young Mr Strachan 12mil for Saha and Malbranque? Did you also dislike that nasty man for telling a fib and suggesting he declined as he did not want Fulham as a rival to have 12 mil? Or were you one of a handful of 'Lowe Luvvies' such as myself who knew the real reason was quite simply that we did not have the cash, we're being run within our means and did not want to build debt even if only to pay for those transfers over a number of years? .... Please tel me you were a Lowe Luvvie deep down, so that your current stance is consistent with the past.... At that time us 'luvvies' who surprisingly were indifferent to Lowe as a man, but supportive of the debt free, living within our means culture were thin on the ground and subject to a fair bit of 'banter'.... Oh how times have changed. It must have been an epiphany, a change of heart of seismic proportions as now, suddenly everyone is says they like our stance and support dear Kat as she squares the circle and pays the builders and other clubs today, rather than tomorrow which was Nasty Nics stance... But hey, we have kinda covered that in the past Let's come back to the evil short arse's despicable desire to share his lofty 'ambition' - something that obviously causes you such offence, as you can go a post without mentioning its innate evil... Hats off to you for persistence, but suggest you need to think about ambition a little more. Here is an interesting concept for you; ambition and having one not restricted to the relative probability of success. Stop and digest that for a moment. Try and understand it and what it means.... To help you here, it means that if you restrict you ambition to what is likely, probable etc, it's not ambition. It's an achievable target... Which is the very least we should include in out yearly goals... The more challenging, the more difficult , in some ways the more improbable your ambition is, the better. It drives people to chemise more than they felt capable of. It's a classic story: to paraphrase an old fable, it's not reaching the top that is important, it's the trying and what you learn from the process... If you do t find that a worthwhile objective, then now to can say, but it will resonate with many. It you set low ambition, say happy with 10th, don't be surprised if we never achieve better. I have yet to meet anyone face to face who has met NC and liked him as a person. I doubt I would like him as a person, as these types of driven business types do tend to be arseholes. But I admire what he achieved and admire his desire to aim high, irrespective of what was probable or not. A culture of delivering home grown talent combined with some experience is nothing new, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it... We did. The evil shortages going was never the a problem. It's the seemingly lack of desire of those who took over to have equally challenging, difficult and yes lofty ambition and drive us beyond our 'natural place' that I have an issue with... Nothing more, nothing less. They show that, they drive this club forward, then great.

Problem I have is that football is a pastime, something fun and enjoyable that we should be able to connect with. It takes over a bit because of innate tribalism and can let us become 'obsessed' - frankly, if we are crap, and get relegated what does it matter? - well it does. Supporting a provincial side is never going to give you the joy of regular success, let alone silverware... That is accepted and understood.... But there does come a time, maybe once in a blue moon/30 years that you can do better. the saddest thing is how poorly KL appears to be being advised (IMHO) - I fully understand that if her heart/ desire is not there she is under no obligation to spend her money - and we all know football is notorious for losing money, but in our case I do think value of her investment return should be judged on the amount invested compared to the value of the assert. We can estimate that her investment to date is probably around 50-60 mil, but some of that may be refundable loans as teh only equity value stated to date is 38mil... Yet the company now has a turnover in excess of 100mil and had a value of in excess of that.... Yet we seem to have decided on a policy of selling to cover costs normal clubs would be comfortable spreading over a number of years.... Further support to have let that squad develop with the addition of no more than 2 players could have seen the value of that investment increase even further.... If she wants out, and has no interest, fair enough, I would thank her for supporting her fathers plan for these past five years and appreciate all she had done. But to in effect let it go backwards, potentially struggle, or get related is just daft... Why are experienced football business folks not advising that there is potential here to do even better? its just sad, that's all. We will go on , survive and return to our natural place... For some conditioned to the 'modern game' that seems enough, and ultimately, for supporters we continue, whatever.... But without any ambition or desire to be better, quite frankly what is the point .... It's accepting that thee is no true sporting contest possible, and that is depressing.

"Punched above their weight last season and now settling back into their natural position" .... And other such patronizing Bo lox "over spent and paid the price so needed to sell many key players" - and other such misinformed and frankly wrong Bo lox

Seems like it... Admire Guans positivity, but he is starting to sound like he is 'presenting the party line'.... Personally, think we are fecked,... We ARE a club in crisis until things happen to change that perception... Right now, our best players have gone or will be going, and have been replaced by good,yet unproven players in this league... Yet last season we were already moaning that our squad was too thin.... When we had injuries and suspensions we were poor and beaten frequently...heaven help us this year! Lose our best players and replace with less in number and quality.... So tell me exactly how this translates as faith in the board t deliver a progressive and ambitious 'project'?

Thinking of striking when you are earning £30k plus a week because you can't go earn £80k a week else where because of your contract is pretty disgusting. Striking because the wages you earn for 50 hours a week can't feed your family, as was the case 100 years ago, is what that RIGHT is all about! not for some greedy, pampered ****wits mostly too thick to do anything else. These players have agents and advisors who they pay. If these advisors let them down by getting them to sign a contract they want to get out of within 12 months, they should be sacking their agents, not threatening to strike. Any prem footballer throwing their dummy out the pram and threatening to strike to get a move is a just a despicable c**t. There is simply no justification - if you think you might improve and want a better deal, sine a shorter contract for less money... It's not as if this sort of thing has not been happening for years.... Seriously these players are thick as shi*t and yet kids and sadly some adults idolise them..... Jeez

more to do with hoping to get some value from a transfer - sack him and his registration is available, don't, and he is stuck with us as much as we are stick with him.

Hahaahhahhaha - good attempt

its all about perspective.... in life the whole episode is meaningless, its just football and no one should get themselves all worked up about it... but when discussing Saints and what as happened, its only reasonable to be critical, that even with decent new players, bedding in, settling etc and the risk that not all will work out, i think we will be weaker.... and yet we must pick up points early given the way the fixtures have fallen... ultimately saints go on whatever....

Wes, again I admire your pragmatism and positivity on this one, and like all hope you are right ad that we spend well and can get a decent squad together before the start of the season. However, I do unfortunately feel that; a) we will spend less on squad additions than we have brought in through sales b) there will certainly be non 'extra'- our net spend will be negative c) from what we saw last season, some of those academy kids have a long way to go - great that we have them and great to slowly bring them in early, but a big difference between using an 18. Year old because they are ready and using them because you have to d) transfers tend to be always have risk attached and most clubs are happy to get a 'lovren' in 2.... Some of the additions we get will fail.... So it is always better having players who you know can deliver, rather than selling and HOPING they can e) Simply dont believe we will see players who are better than what we sold.... If we do, the scouting will have been exceptional, they will all need to settle in quick luck will have been on our side..... Better internationals of the quality of Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, and potentially Schneiderlin.... Simply won't go to a 'mid table side that. Selling it's better players and won't be paying the 80k a week +. Are you really hopeful that we will get 5-6 better than that? Sorry I don't see it happening f) Finally, most argued last season that we lacked squad depth and this restricted us in terms of our progress. Not only have we so far seen these departures and more likely, they are our BEST players, we would need 8 or 9 of the 10-12mil quality and hope they all become decent squad members, with 5 or 6 being able to replace our best for us to be improved on last season... All in all we can only live in hope, rather than expectation. Sure this is what football and players have become for clubs of our size - any relative success will always sadly mean best players are gone before we see what we could really achieve.... Life goes on and in the grand scheme of things it is 'only football' and therefore not that important....

Dont think there was ever any intention to deceive, but it was certainly naive to come out with such things given that most fans knew key players would be off... Sorry but think that was inevitable the moment NC left/ packed it in/sacked/done a bunk (delete based on what you chose to believe) We lost the glue. The one person who managed to convince these players that we had a future better than the past, however realistic or otherwise you consider his 'project', fact remains players did buy in to it... And given the fact we have now lost 3 internationals, probably at least two more... In fact our 5 best players.... Does anyone really still believe ewe wI'll get as good in and be able to build on last season? Ralph was never going to be able to make that sound palatable... But maybe some honesty abut what our new 'ambition' really is would have helped with credibility ...if not popularity. And there in lies his problem...much to Wilde...focused more on popularity than honesty. Saints fans have seen them all and can spot BS at 200 paces. There is still no sign of the 'ambition' he was promising... So for those who like to ridicule NC for his ambition being a load of BS, what can you say about Ralph's 'promises'?

Er.. Manning up is stating he is not for sale end of... We have already sold too many.... Manning up is not rejecting 20 in the hope of accepting 25.....

Oh stop with the patronizing pompous attitude.... Nearly everyone knows this all means nothing in the grand scheme of real life.. It's football and we are just the mugs who pay for obscene wages out of some misguided and juvenile need for belonging and tribalism. Football is just game, and anyone who seriously lets it take over needs help of a medical kind. ..BUt this is a football club forum, so getting emotional, OTT and expressing anger and vitriol is what these things are all about - and the current situation demands a decent level of unashamed over emotive board slagging if ever there was one. Provincial club with ambition selling a key player for 30 mi to big club - fair enough Provincial club with ambition selling the best 5-6 players has not happened before and it's happening under KL and Ralf. Krugers watch - we don't know how Cortese would have handled it but he is not here, so these guys need to explain or deliver - right now these departures are deterring any chance Koeman has of getting a squad together that is capable of ensuring we make a fight of it... finally how can anyone be satisfied with a club NOT doing all it could to build and progress on what we did last season... Which we could have done with say a 20mil spend on a decent CB and a LB cover? Yet we are told by the uber board members that rebuilding is fine....we should just accept mediocrity is what you are really saying... We have gone backwards .. And without any indication that it's part of any succession plan that has ambitions to be more than our previous prem league bottom feeders....

You don't get it do you... We do NOT need to spend 100mil of her own money... But ensure we used the 120 mil turnover effectively.... No one is insisting she spend HER money, but we were told we do NOT end to sell for financial reasons! REED went on video to say so.... So if not financial it's because we have taken the money as we are UNABLE to convince any of these players to stay... The drive and determination is gone, the culture has changed. Yes most clubs would have struggled to turn down a 30 mil offer for Shaw, fair enough, but had we been Everton, he would have been all that had gone... No one else... Not possibly 4-6 key players, who by their leaving make I impossible for Korean no matter how much of the cash is reinvested. 1. Reed said sales whee not necessary 2. One or even two is understandable given that clubs of our size always face these situations 3. Tell me of another Prem club who has finished 8th and then sold the best players, not one or two, but all of them? 4. We have no idea how Cortese would have dealt with this summer, but he is NOT here, this is happening under KL and Kruegers watch, no one else's so they have to explain, or deliver. 5. I cannot understand anyone who thinks it's fine after such an excellent season, accepting that we need to 'rebuild' .. As if expecting the club to build on what we had achieved and progress, was something impossible without spending 100million.... That is Bol lox, we maybe needed to spend 20 or so max... With extra years experience, and a couple more youngsters coming through, and a new CB and cover for LB, we would have Ben in a great position.... Why has that not been possible? Sure maybe Shaw goes.... But this exodus?

sorry but you are missing a huge chunk of what all this was about - whoosh over the head of those who have become so obsessed with the 'realities' of the modern game, they have lost all sense of what it means to have aspiration.... First up, do YOU really think players could be sold a scam? That Cortese sat them down and they all of a sudden believed he would take them to the promised land? Seriously do you think they have not seen what the premier league is all about these last 20 years? Secondly, is there some new rule made up by the zealots of realism, that states fans can no longer have hope, have dreams and that in doing so they need to be laughedat ? Football used to always be about dreams, supporting about a collective spirit and and a unity that together more was achievable than individually... Sure the odds of everything coming together in such a way so that top four was possible without huge capital investment are minuscule.... But so what? The fact that there was a collective belief amongst the side that we were NOT yet at our full potential yet finished 8th, is a huge positive. The fact that this belief and unity, drive, promoting youth, good coaching etc was seeing results showed a lot of folks what was possible if we we put our mind to it. Cortese was not some innovative guru, no NEW ideas, why even Lowe had the same approach to save money, - he was about obsessive details , small advances, and advantages that collectively gave us a improved chance of more consistent performances.. It was ALL about an attitude to be better than we were - improve and progress and not be limited by the rather limited imagination and negativity that the media, others in football and by the looks of things plenty of fans seem he'll bent on spouting. A positive attitude, spirit and belief that we can be better.... Tell me that is such a bad thing? the current board are not getting flack because of KLs investment choices - I have always stated since Lowe's day that we should never rely on owners gifting huge wedges of cash to the club... And she is entitled to her own management of the finances. However, I would suggest that it was NOT some pipe dream of CL that was shattered, but that we lost that driving force when we lost Cortese, then MO, Shaw, Lallana, and our talisman in Lambert.. Plus who ever else will go. No the grief they board get is not about money, but because when took 5 years to build and and delivered 5 years of progress, has taken 5 minutes to dismantle - and whilst players agents and even Cortese and MP are partly to blame, as with Lowe, the buck stops with those in control... Or are they only responsible for the the good things like stripes? Now,we may see a new start, a new era of progress under KL and RK.. Great if we do, but why the need to start again from scratch? One thing is clear to anyone who knows their football. That side of held together would have been even better this year with maybe only another decent CB to add and some LB cover... And that is the biggest shame in all this. Our board gets flack because for whatever reason, we won't ever see how good we could have been... Because it was under their watch this all happened... Where it might have taken us is not the point, others around us will also improve, but it would have been nice to see.... Given that for a club of our size, getting a crop of talent together like that is not going to happen that often....

Nothing you pillock, its called association - one that others have also picked up on - yet like some obsessed wee child, you simply could not resist responding to my post - pathetic, yet actually quite amusing in a sort of 'pet' like way.

yup... i appreciate how much some love the stripes, but do have this nagging doubt, that it marks the end of our upward journey, and back to the grim reality of relegation scraps and mediocrity.... hopefully will get proven wrong, but how many of you will be happy if our future is as bland as a homemade kit?