Frank's cousin

Nutshell: 1. Your opinion of Cortese will be based on how much faith you place in the rumours and gossip of him being vindictive vs expecting some greater amount of evidence to support it 2. Pretty much agreement on the fact that in terms of being good at dealing with the financial balance between spending enough and wisely to ensure steady progress within the now more constrained or finite budget, its perhaps still too early to say whether NC can deliver on that front.

Nope worng again - I would find it nice to hear, but would not take it as evidence that every thing is perfect - as it would be RUMOUR and thus not necessarily painting a true picture - you see there is a simple principle here which you seem unable to grasp....

All fair comments - and I totally agree - my only comment might be that I do think our Loan need has a reasonable explanation linked to not being able to spread this over the season eg when the sky monies come in... rather than a desperate need for cash for operational elements of the business - I could be wrong, but wont assume teh worst for now...

Seriously Kracken I do get what you are trying to say and you are right - the jury is still out on whether NC can and will be able to demonstrate a prudent financial policy that can achieve the ideal of stabilty and steady progress within a self sustaining model... fair enough. But you yourself state money does not guarrantee success - yet its not ridculous to assume that the important part to all this is achieving success with the BUDGET that has been set and agreed - I would hazzard a guess that our BUDGET was set in part by the 'provision' made by Markus that he hinted at before his death - which was why to all intents and purposes we were running within an agreed bdget that INCLUDED the revenue from this director loan both in L1 and the CCC. Assuming that pot is now empty, the trick will be to ensure we can live within our current means - and in football that does include spreading the investment in infrastructure and players over a number of years.

I would love to hear nothing but sweetness and light stroies comming from contented happy folk that work for him - seriously it would be great. Do I believe these rumours? Yes I fully believe there are some seriously hacked off folk who used to work for the club - what I am simply saying is that without knowing the details of their grievence, or why they are now ex employees of teh club, I cant comment on whether this is normal or abnormal and as a result it would be erong to assume one party or the other is at fault... I will also nevr get to know the facts, so if push comes to shove, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club, because they are not in a position to comment on individual cases.

Cant deny Pards is a good manager and I am sure he would have delivered for us as well. But for some reason the relationship broke down - whatever it was and its best not to speculate, he was replaced and it worked to a point - My take on Niges post Cov comments was less conspiracy theory and more pragmatic - I think he knew he had been given a job to do and that come the Prem he may well be replaced... yet somehow he has been given a chance, possibly also because of popular opinion that he deserved it... alternatively we can all hink its some sort of deep rooted issue...

see my respnse to SG -

Turkish was talking about EX employees who hardly have to worry about that :facepalm:

Thing is Steve, when making assumptions or insinuations its easy to quote 'examples' yet without the facts and details its impossible to determine whether this is someone being vindictive or part of the fairly normal process that goes with what is a difficult situation. The club was restructured, which would mean legally that in many cases they were not made redundant, but possibly needed to agree compromise agreements - which in many cases can also provide grounds for constructive dismissal claims - so its not surprizing at all that there were 'many more' cases. We dont know whether initial offers were reasonable or not and as such can only speculate on the reasons why the club took these claims through the longer and more painful process. Its the level of speculation and then assumption based on no more than 'at least one former employer who was sacked and took legal action' - which has very negative undertones, when the reality could be be 'at least one former employer who filaied to agree a compromise agreement and took it further' which is quite common, that I have an issue with. Yes NC 'might' actually be the complete bastard from hell some are painting him, but the evdience used to do so is vague, and fuelled by gossip and speculation - that is the point.

You are being a child and you know it... but to indulge you, I have never indicated that there are tons of happy clappy folk running around at SMS, now made a point out of it - so I dont see whay you demand examples. You have consistently suggested there is huge disharmony and used rumour and gossip - no names, no examples, just hints and gossip yet have never provided any evidence - It may be true that there are loads of disgruntlked unhappy folk - but as pointed out in my post this is is inconsistent with an envirnment that allowed the club to achieve great things - and if it was simply a case of money, why did others who spent more thenn us not get promoted instead?

I am not saying he is a genius... but that as we have seen at other clubs with money to spend, its not always enough - you need something else, be it luck, graft hard work or a culture in which teh team is united and driven by the same desire... whatever we had, we had it and it worked - and that seems inconsistent with the 'rumours' and speculation that somehow we achieved all that despite NCs best intentions to feck everything up....

Not proven yet. We've regained some equilibrium but appear to be in a falsely high position thank's to Adkins' and the playing staff's outstanding last season. Cortese is talking about being established in the Prem, European competition and the academy providing the backbone of our team. None of that has happened yet. True, but the assumption being made by some is that it wont,cant etc and as such all teh trivial BS and rumour means he is crap...which is eqally naive and appears agenda driven...[/QUOTE]

The positive stories coming form teh club are quite simple and clearly differentiated form yours in that they are not rumour, they are FACT. we were promoted back to back... how much more positive do you want?

That is a fair point - given the funding that has been made available... but I strugle with the need by some to be so determined to see it fail, or assume it already has in order to drive home a message that basically they dont like him in charge...

you may be right you may be wrong - the point being that we can only speculate on whether he he will or wont achieve that stated ambition of being self sustaining - given the necessary cap ex, and the time needed to bring the 'model' in to reality eg get a stronger more consistent bunch of kids comming through, its not really surprizing that money was needed to bridge that gap - sure NCs vision may turn out to be a naive pipe dream, but it may not, and its just speculation to assume it wont.

You dont want to listen/read to anything that does not support your POV - fair enough, but kind of makes the point of mesage boards redundant - yet you have nearly 14000 posts, so you must be geeting something out of it... may I ask what exactly apart form a fairly poorly disguised way of pushing your own agenda?

Hnag on a minute Steve, if someone had been sacked for doing a job competently they would have appropriate redress... I am not advocating they should shut up and be quiet - but restructuring always has fall out and no one who has been effected by that (and that includes me) is ever happy with it. We are talking about MLT and his gripes being played out in the media. This is not someone who has no other option over a genuine grievance. Tell me what can MLT gain from thsi and how does it help the club? Tell me? I am obviously missing something.

Think that is a bit disengenuous Kracken - everyone knew that Money would need to be invested to get us up the league - Markus also stringly suggested that funds would be available o do this - not unlimited, but reasonable nonetheless - so instead of gifting those funds he 'loaned them' - dont know tax advantages here but I bet NC does - which following his death was converted to equity, not sure I see anything unusual here, especially as the accounts published to date do not factir in such funds as the Oxo money etc - and teh capital investmnet needed to upgrade Staplewood was aloways going be big chunk. As the the BVI Loan - faor enough we know not much about it, and it does seem in direct opposition to what NC indicated. Some will worry, others use it as a stick, but my take is that it was necessary simply because of the way the Ramieres deal was money up front rather than spread over 2+ years and aligned with th Sky cash hand outs... But w will see when its publsihed in the accounts. Do you honestly believe NC is raking up debts to fund the club in an uncontrolled fashion?

I am surprised Turkish that you simply cannot grasp the points, which given your age/mental age you should be able to. If after 3 years we were still languishing in L1, having failed, then you could well use your 'insider knowldge' of deep seated unrest and Cortese being some sort of Stalin as a valid point in suggesting it was a root cause of our failure. But you cant - we have progressed and whilst in your rose tinted 'have your cake and eat it' world it might be nice to think that it should have been achieved whilst keeping everyone in some sort of hedonistically crazed state of smiley ecstasy, the reality is that those who could deliver both are few and far between - if not mythical. So lets forget the past achievments you might say, look at the problems now FFS - well we are struggling on the pitch as ALL at the club are confronted with a steep learning curve - now most rational folk will accept that with the performance to date, the steep learning cureve and the presure that puts everyone under, its bound to be les sthan harmonious - indeed some will use it to drive home their deep seated prejudices and try and divide as its a great oportunity to do so.... others will suggest its at times like this where pulling together and trying to work something out would be better for the club they love, but hey that might sound too rational. Cortese and NA have sat down and the writing may well be on the wall, as no matter what the issues are personality wise, clashes, spats, ultimately it comes down to points and when they dont come, something has to give. Ultimately the spats with ex players, ex employees (and FFS at leats acknowledge that as they are EX employees, they are hardly going to a balanced perspective), are distractions, but they are not part of the bigger and more important picture - this is not trivializing, what appears to be important on a personal level, but its needs to be put in some sort of perspective - which you seem incapable of accepting. The only grip with MLT is that its a shame he cant see the bigger picture either - a club he loves and dedicated his career to, yet he is comfortable in fuelling division over what is a personal issue - which is not in the clubs best interests - which is reflected in your own constant need to undermine NC or others that believe its not in the clubs best interests to do so. You accuse others of having tehir heads in teh sand over this... yet there is nothing to date that suggests whatever is happening at the club, the way its run is causing some sort of melt down as you like to suggest and insinuate...constantly. I suggest if we have our heads in teh sand, then you must have yours well and truely up your arse, because I cant see what you get from all this determination to divide.

'Cortese lovers' - next we will have Cortese Luvvies..... like the dark days of few years back - do some of you want that? A All these articles do is divide, which is why there is no value in them and you have to question the motivation behind them. As with his predecessors Cortese is not infallable or without fault, nor will he be able to appeal to all fans all of the time. The only TRUE way anyone can and should be judged is not on his personality, his spats, his opinions, even his approaches or attitude (as we will all have different opinions on those), but on whether the club progress within the caveats of the usual financial restrictions - so far the answer has to be yes to that so far. We cant predict the future and that will play out as it will.... I cant figure out what possible motivation some of you have for encourgaing further divsions and taking sides in spats that are silly and have no baring on the bigger picture...pathetic really

True, yet this can be to the advantage of fans - because that ego will only ever be satisfied if their achieve that success - the problem is never ego, or any of the other superficial guff often spouted as important by fans, but whether the 'ego' has the finances, the strategy and ability to deliver that success. So far its our 'ego' has delivered - now we are in a testing time - a new experinec whereeveryone needs to learn fricken fast if that success is not to be haulted. Time will tell, but we cant say its not been a successful few years and that we have not been able to enjoy the rollercoaster.

neither - the adult thing is to speak one-to one and sort it out, out side of the media spotlight - if nothing is resolved you move on and let it go, especially if you know taht speaking out in public could harm the very thing you love or divide those that also love it... Its not as if the spat was ever something major that would impact on the success of the club - it was a personal thing... immature behaviour to use media connections to try and get public/fan support for your argument over something like this...

Sorry Alps for any confusion - the two points were seperate; 1) its possible people dislike NC because when you look PAST the public face and compare the business strategies and operations, there are more similarities than differences - maybe makes some uncomfortable, depsite it being clear that NC is obviously ambitious and demanding of on the field success - some see it as naivity - I see it as a wonderful naiviety, a positive thing, sure we may fail, it may be unrealistic, but far better to have positive dreams than Lowe's acceptance of medicocrity. 2) When people judge individuals, its often done by looking at the public face, rather than digging deaper into the important things - what is the strategy, operational effectiveness etc - eg teh things that matter - where Lowe and NC are far more simililar - its why some hated Lowe yet seem comfortable with NC... despite the similarities in approach

? confused DP - was not putting any words in your Gub matey - not sure how you see that.... - you made a point that no one cares now about Lowe's attempts at cash injection/investmnet etc - which is true and valid - I merely suggested that this maybe part of the reason why there is dislike for NC is that some are uncomfortable with the similarities between the two as a follow on point...so dont get your chastising comment? FMDP burn yor toast this morning?

Thats the point though Alps - Lowe was disliked in most part because was so crap in public... but I am talking about the way the club is set up - the emphasis on youth development to try and avoid having to spend huge sums on players, the wage structure, the desire to be self sustaining etc and if believed the control. Problem to often how someone comes across in public often carries more weight on opinion of them that the stratgey or tactical operations behind the scene