Frank's cousin

Think you are on safe ground there... tis merely an mater of tas... I mean opinion

THis is cracking me up, cant follow a thing, Mike's probably getting loads of new material with this wonderful thread... Jeez.... NO one knows why it was cancelled and it looks like its between Mike and Sky - but either way not sure its really any of our business....

True, but the key premise of teh PTS is that they consistently fail to live within tehir means to fund greater competitiveness... we could argue that Boltons 136mil was spent for the same reasons... how else would they have survived for so long in the prem with a 20k gate?

Alps, the point is that the Human Rights ACT has feck all to do with the EU - it predates it and we were part instigators - something of which we should be proud. Don't get this confused with the the EU. Yes, folk can appeal to the ECHR if they want to after a national judgement, which is good but in this case as Badger has frequently pointed out, the reason this guy is still here is because the Governments Lawyers could not prove that evidence obtained by torture would not be used agaisnt him if sent back. A judgement made by a British Judge based on British legislation that WE devised. If you dont like the EU, fine, but it has feck all to do with this case. Too often things like this are used to batter the EU, when it has feck all to do with it - its symptomatic of teh the anti-EU press ofetn deliberatly relating or confusing the issue. Its why a referendum in this country on EU memebership would be a farce, as too many cant differentiate between these things hcih are often highly emotive...

THIS. Problem seems to be that some simply cant distinguish between legislation that is designed to protect anyone from being sent to countries in which a fair trial would not happen something that we can be proud of in that it was our legal system that most of the world has adopted which preserves teh right to a fair trial etc, and mistakes made by Government laywers that allow for this evil ****'s successful appeal. ...however, on a point of principle, even if it was not mistakes, if we have a system that preserves an individual's rights to a fair trial, we need to be prepared that now and again this will mean nasty characters such as this will not be sent to places where this can not be guarranteed -ss difficult as that is to reconcile, still believe its part of what makes Britain great - we have a civilised and robust system that does not simply give in to public opinion when it suits and offers the same standard of leagl protection to all.

Thing is these are quality players... where as down the road....

Given accusations that our motivation for the PTS is simply based on our rivalry and schardenfreude with our neighbours plight (is if), its perhaps appropriate to have a thread where we also comment on the situation at Bolton - OK so slightly different in that 122 mil of their 136 mil debt is now a long term 'loan' from their owner, rather than owed to players, banks, child maimers, gun runners, local businessses and charities etc.... but its clear that Eddie Davies has funded their stint in the prem, - although you would have thought that with taht support they might at least to have tried to play some decent football, but then Fat Sam was in charge for most of it... In theory, the FFP rules should in future prevent this sort of debt accumulation, which will require, If I understand it correctly, this to be written off as equity? - what are your thoughts on how this obvious distortion of a clubs 'status' based on owners funding losses, (as Markus did for us to 33 mil)? Can there ever be a more level playing field where how you chose to spend the money has a far greater impact on performance and success than how much you spend?

Indeed, but this is why they have been in admin 2 times in 2 years... because they simply dont understand that principle....

This, same for me, in that the now Mrs C was treated for ALL when we were going out, back in 1994.... been married for 16 years... NHS was brilliant. I appreciate there is a lot of wasted money on the so called red tape and management costs that many always complian about, and yes this is a problem, but teh biggest is that we simply dont spend enough on healthcare in this country, whatever the sytem, be it private or state, we spend a 1/3 per captita on healthcare compared to that of Germany - yes they pay a chunk from their gross salary and their employers do the same - direct into a fund that then allocates it to the health insurance provider for that each person is signed up to - who pay doctors and hospitals direct through a simple electronic system (who dont make claims and their is NO limit on treatment if its an approved therapy), but it ALL goes straight to cover their health insurance, and is not part of the governmental coffers - in addition, although the amount you pay is linked to your earnings as in a tax based system, the quality of care is STANDARD for all no matter how much yo pay in - a sort of combination of the principles of the NHS, but with a 'private' provider - great system, but you have to be prepared to pay for it, and we simply dont seem to have that mentality in this country....

Alps there is huge difference between chosing not to waer soimething and the dispicable acts ou mention that are deliberate attempts at provocation. But even then despite the fact that most sane people would disagree with this type of 'protest', once again the fact that we have teh right to do so, no matter how unpalettable it may seem is the very freedom, our fallen fought to preserve. It is a right that may well be abused by some, and this is shameful, but the fact remains, whilst we are in a free country we have to accept that with these freedoms we will always see extremists of all types abuse them. The thought of removing those rights would be disrespecting those wh lost tehir lives fighting for them.

Alps, don't you see though, that whilst its a fair opinion to find his actions distasteful, its still a freedom we all enjoy? We simply dont know whether this is some ego driven show of bravado in light of his politics, or whether a recognition that there are still some of the extreme feckwits over there and it could have led to reprisals against family/friends etc. Also, the great thing about living in a country that has these freedoms, is that despite the fact that some abuse it through preaching shiedt, hatred and biggotry it gives us an opportiunity to demonstrate how ridiculous and ignorant their views are.

Thought it encapsulated how many feel really - we know we need results, we know that the chairman will be putting NA under pressure, but we also know that some players are not yet at their potential or they dont have the quality... those brought in are younger players with hopefully bright futures with us, but that does not solve the current issue. How you feel about it all will depend on whether you feel its better to saty up at all costs, irrespective of fact that 3 or 4 more experienced pros on 2-3 year contracts may prevent the younger players form getting the experience at this level they so desperately need, or whether you are comfortbale that we could manage the income redction that comes with relagation and that we could come back stronger... Dont think there is a right or wrong, jsut opinion. FWIW, I think NC is desperate to stay up, yet also wants the youth to develop and gain the experience on which we can build - are the two reconcilable? Possibly if the quality of the youth is exceptional, but NC is perhaps a little naive if he feels he can have both after such a quick rise - which has meant our older more experienced squad pros, are not good enough at this level in some cases. Its a dliemma, rather than a nightmare that some would have us believe.

You have absolutely no idea whether he respects the dead or not that fought for his freedom, all we have is someone who has made a choice not to waer a poopy because of what else that would represent within his own political spectrum....as usual you are quick to condem, slow to understand anything that does not fit into your nice littel Black and white world or with which you just plain disagree... from an advocator of freedom. We get the whole WUM mentality of the majority of the sheidt you post, but that does not detract from the fact that you constantly contradict yourself, have zero ability to recognise irony, and dont seem to acknowledge the tolerance you say you are so proud that our fallen fought for, is fundemental to his choice... not very big, not very clever...in fact pretty ignorant all round. Should all those ex pat brits come home from say Dubai, or Saudi, because I bet most dont support most of the local customs, difference is, they have no choice under some of those regimes...

Fair enough - IMHO, the problem here has been driven by teh need for 'survival' - which as we all know is driven by the ridiculously large disparity in revenue between the prem and the CCC. That fear of what relegation may do to a plan or longer term investment drives the decisons most clubs make and its why despite the self proclaimed 'greatest' league in the, much of van be dull as dishwater with minimal possibilty of a Wigan, or Sunderland or even Saints breaking into the top 4 - which the prem dont give a feck about as the revenue is generated by global armchair audiences, whi mostly support the current top 4 incumbants.... so for me its refreshing to see a club try and do its own thing, naive, yeah, maiing it more difficult for ourselves to survive, yep, but also a statement that if we do want to at least try and be better than also rans, we need to start as we mean to go on - youth that has a chance to develop as a unit. Means short term its going to be a huge struggle, but it does have longer term potential... maybe...

Can see what you are suggesting, but ultimately again it comes down to your own perespectives - does a BNP player represent the club? Probably and I would struggle to support siad individual and it may impact o my support for the club, but that does NOT detract form that players right to hold those views no matter how distateful we may find them - and surely that is the point - the right to chose, even if we feel some make the wrong choices (and many do), denying those freedoms is the biggest insult to those who died fighting for it.

Some astonishing views and comments here, with a big dollop of missed irony on the whole freedom issue. The only thing that matters is surely the respect for those who gave up their lives for these freedoms, not whether you wear a symbol - I suspect there are plenty who simply chuck the money in the pot, wear the poppy, without giving it a moments thought about what it represents... but as long as they conform , who cares right Turks? Some might argue that seveal of the response on here vere dangerously close to the the types of repression that those we remember died defending us against... as we come full circle on the irony issue. There is also the issue that the appeal is now for all personnel killed in conflict, including the recent and current situations - so its about more than the defending of freedom. It is shame that he was not able to differentiate between his politics and remembering those who have fallen, but thats the problem with symbolism if its seen to represent more than what it was originally intended for - which it now does. Personnally, I prefer living in a country that allows personal choice, and the freedom that goes with it wthout the risk of personal attack or vindictive reprisals - yet as we see by the comments on here, some are struggling with the whole concept of freedom, and to me that is a bigger insult to those who died defending it, than someone not wearing a poppy.

splutter... LOL, good to see teh nutjobs out this evenung as we avoid thinking of Monday morning work blues - but must go and do domestic chores - ah the glamourous life I lead...

Depends though surely - simply saying we shoudl be further along beacsue we spent big money is fair , had we spent that money on seasoned older players - but we did not, we spent the biggest chunk on a 21 year old playmaker - they type of player that is the most expensive and would be unaffordable if in their 27 year old peak - the rest alos on younger players. Yes, I agree we woudl be beter equipped for survival with more experience, that much is obvious, but we would be committed to older players on 3-4 year deals and good wages, that would as in many other clubs, bar the way in for many youngsters.... There is no rght and worng here IMHO, just depends on howyou view the prem v the approach we are taking.

Ah - the classic 'I dont care' - a mighty and often useful reposte, but caution is needed when used, as 14000 posts and a fair few on more than one thread sarcastically commenting on the the 'evidence issue' suggests contradiction, which can make you look a tool...

Newsnight?

Yeah that'll do, at least he got a bit of cred back ... Davidson has thankfully disappeared up his own...

You see, this is your problem not mine - you still fail to see the difference between why someone would expect some evidence when making an accusation, yet not need one when merely hering a positive story... if you cant get that, nothing i can do about it 'sunshine'

Must be getting a little low on material there Turkish, having to repeat yourself - what with 'breakdown' sories, used that one before you have - not really that funny then, nor now... beggining to sound like an 80s ITV 'comedian' now - shalll I be equally 'funny' as you and think of a clever nicjk name for ya? are you the forums's Jim Davidson? He was never that funny either...

Read the post again Hypo, its not about who does or does not agree - its about those obssessed with ramming repetitive stories with no evidence that I have no time for, at no point do I say anything about those who dont agree with me on the positive and negative thing...

Hypo, I have never said that we shoudl not question, or that we should bury heads in sand to avoid addressing issues - but there needs to be some perspective on all this - Matt, for all his genius on the pitch and what he did for us as a club, the memories etc is naturally cut some some slck, but it does not make him right to air his grievences which in teh grand scheme are pretty petty constantly in public - just makes hims look a bit sad really. As fo the rest, well Turkish and otehrs asked why no clamouing for evidence for positive stories - well I like I said, of course they are easier to accept, and no one is being 'harmed' or criticised by a positive story, so whether its true or not does not matter one bit. On teh other hand negative stories that make accustations about folks character, behaviour etc, are and can be harmful - especially when frequently coming out of the mouths of thsoe who admit to and 'issue' with those they are reporting about - so is it any wonder that most rational folk would seek some evidence before forming an opinion... and if none is forthcoming?