Frank's cousin

..and like many I wish the club would communicate much more and present its case to counter - so that with balance a more 'informed' opinion can be formed, not just on this issue, but all those in which there is often some controversy - would make this a lot easier thats for sure. But I have accepted that the cub seems to have a typical 'swiss' approach which is simply not to comment and be quite secretive abouts its business and operations. Feck all I can do about that, but rather than assume the worst all the time, I tend to assume the best - positivity as NIge would say, makes a big difference to how you perceive the club.

I am not Steve - I simply dont think its right to make assumptions when we dont know the reasons - its easy to, and its natural to, but it does not make it right. The club may well have dropped a bollock and if I were in pocession of thsoe details, I might well agree and think they were behaving like arseholes - but I dont have al the reasons, and I also believe that when it comes to builders and contractors, the moral rights are not always as clear cut as the legal ones... Sure, mine might be a reaction to the constant drivel on here that seems determined to find fault, without ever explaining the obsession or the root of the issues... seems odd that's all and I am pretty much fed up with the way its so easy for rumour, and gossip to be adopted as fact done the line... we had enough of that in the past

you not able to count pages?

You have mis read the post - there is 'no evidence either way' to determine whether the club is an evil bunch of bastards versus a dispute that was not possible to resolve between the two parties so was escalated.... because we do not know what reasons the club had for the initial non payment or their standing their ground following the adjudication - Of course in the eyes of the adjudicator and the court, the club had no grounds for with holding payment, and so they are guilty as charged of failing to make that FINAL payment. BUT I will not start calling the club a bunch of evil bastards if I dont KNOW why they refused to make that payment... it makes no sense to assume this is some sort of 'policy decision' versus a genuine grievence of not being satisfied with the works. I fuly accept that club could wel be in the worng an thus have acted in a shameful way - but its just a slikely that they felt they had strong grounds morally if not legally for witholding the final payment - that is the point - I dont know, none of us do, yet many seem happy to condemn without hearing both sides. .... seems we have already reached the low(e) point... where some fans constant shouting of assumed 'facts', based on nothing more than their opinion, speculation, rumour and gossip, is becoming ingrained in others way of thinking - the classic generation of urban myth that give it a few more months will be considered fact... I am sure we are not the only club that has this level of paranoia within its fanbase.... or this level of desperation to prove the leadership has major flaws.... with Lowe and the PLC there was always an open oor for teh likes of Wilde and Crouch to oust the encumbant... but as pointed out at the time to all those obsessesed that PLC had no place in football.... be careful what you wish for because in private hands there will not be such an option. We have a leadership that is never going to be everyone's cup of tea in terms of approach and style... some can obsess over it if they wish... but my rumour of the day is that the only problems the club has is that its style and approach/communication is not universally loved... which IMHO is not such a big deal.

Not carpet sweepoing Chez, and the Echo is perfectly within its rights to publish what they see fit and comment/provide opinion on these things as all are on here. This case obviously has a negative impact - makes fans feel uncomfortable that the club they support appears to be acting 'oddly' at times, and is not aligned with whatmost wuld consider a more community spirited set of values... BUT... and i guess most knew this was comming, the club does not comment publically on these things and as such we only ever get one side of the story, which results in speculation. I have absolutely no idea what the cubs reasons were for not paying the last installment - especially as the club had paid 85% of the project fee on time, so presume they were satisfied with the work up until that point (so no idea where the suggestion vcomes from they are bad payers). The Court found in favour of the claiment in this case, which also suggests that tehe club knew they would and why they did not turn up offer a defence... but the question remains as to whether the club felt they had justification - I know several folk who have had disputes with contractors that whilst they had the moral right, legally they were screwed etc... We have two possibilties: either cub is run by a bunch of bastards who screw over local businesses without a thought, or there was a disagreement over the works that could not be settled between the two parties - which happens at times. There is no evidence to support either, yet many are very quick to take sides and believe the worst of people - I can only assume it suits them to do so. This is not ignoring the issue, or burying heads in sand, but an acknowledgement that its far too easy to 'assume' the worst when not in full pocession of the details or reasons for certain actions. The Echo's perspective is always welcome - IF they do their homework. They cant be expected to ofefr balance, because the club wont speak to them and offer their side, but its therefore important that these articles are read with that knowledge.

Nah - all footballers play golf, its a given - darn my cover is blown... or should I ad a Wooosh! next time?

Not a bad reason to stick with Fox and not spend needlessly on a new LB if the coaching staff and Nige knew that Shaw was almost ready... guess what with them watching him play day in day out and also in traning they must get quite a good view of how he has come on in the last 12 months... or maybe the club/NC/Nige were just being colectively stupid and thought Fox was brilliant and nothing else was needed.... which you believe to be more likely says more about your opinions of Nige than it does of NC.

MLT drinks malibu and Coke? WTF... definitely gone down in my estimations if he drinks such a 16 year old girly drink...

Yep its clear we have strated to gell a bit more... Now I am certianly no expert, happy to admit that, but I would assume that key players back from injury, a young side (youngest we have ever put out), new players, playing a 4231 this season, well it might not be beyond possibilty that its taken 10+ games to figure out the best side and for them to gell... + confidence that had taken a batering during those times we were trying to figure it out.... and well its no surprise to me that we are nt teh worst side in this division, so these last couple of games were good ones agaisnt poorer sides in which to get some confidence back.... alternatively we can all be far more interested in rumours of conspiracy and interference. Whatever floats ya boat as they say.

Nice

I demand to know how its possible that work could have started again. Afterall every Contractor in hampshire and beyond knows we are such bad payers that they dont want to work with us....

Nah, as sarcasm seem sto make Turkish so 'popular', thought, I'd give it whirl.

That will be beacuse when we are winning its Nigel picking the team and tactics and when we lose it must be NC.... As with most fans, win every week and I could not give a flying feck if Doris the tea lady picks the squad and caiches ramirez - get a few injuries to key players, have defensive lapses and poor decsions as a result of a young squad's lack of experience and suddenly its NC interfering... a strange sense of deja Vu... some dont like chairman. We have to live with it I guess.

..You mean the little WUM clique desperate to convince us that we wer crap because of interference - definietley will be out because as we know as Matty was our greatest ever, he can simply get nothing wrong (not pinnacle or anything, no nothing) and his opinion will definietly not be biassed in any way because of hi ongoing spat with NC... not he will rise above it and tell it like it is as he is still in reality in the dressing room cupboard listening in as NC reads out the side and our Nige sits sheepishly on the bench

Warched the ful match on Sky. Great performance, great result. Our frailties and weaknesses are still there, BUT I will say it again - this is what you would expect from such a young side - that that includes Gazza, whose mistakes showed a lack of experience, not alack of quality - he has potential. Not sure why some are not convinced by Gastom. Through out his stint he oozed class, accurate passes and showed he will grow into the prem. Many players from foreign fields, especially SA seem to take a while to adjust to the prem's pace, sometimes a season or more, yet he is already proving that when back to full fitness, will be a handful more most sides and will be instrumental in a lot of games. Puch was MOTM imho, he was everywhere - I dont know what was sais between NC and Punch last season, but whatever it was has done the trick and hes been like a new signing. Shaw showed why many top clubs are sniffing around, I just hope we can convince the lad that he wil get the the 100k week bracket in time and does not need to look for short cuts warming the bench elsewhere. Adam, Rickie, back to their best, Clyne also showing us again the quality he showed aganst City, and Fonte and Yosh, much better, but with more games we would hope less 'moments' - Fox and Davis looked much more assured in their roles today, maybe the poor opposition, but confidence seems to make a big difference to Fox and he did his job. Overall some lovely moments of play, lads and Nige did us proud. I know some struggle with the 4231 thing that Nige is playing, but now we have players back from injury, it seems to be working again.... and does entertain, which is afterall the reason why we want to watch. Top stuff.

I picture Turks in his late 40s, maybe early 50s. Probably fancied himself as a bit of a geezer in the 80s and 90s, bit fly, on the terraces. Dresses in clothes about 20 yeras to young for him in an effort to keep in with the youth, who he hopes all look up to him... now resigned to trying to use his former playground bully tactics on a web forum... how the mighty have fallen....

Ahr the typical tactic of the playground Bully - run to teacher. I just dont understand what pleassure you get from your constant wind up.... You cant be that ignorant that you dont understand the difference between fact and speculation, yet your wind ups are based purely on the latter - the bait on your perculiar hook. If you want to take this seriously then answer these questions: 1. Have to read the details of the contract between the club and the contractor? 2. Do you know the clauses that club calim were not met, yet the contractor claims were? 3. Is paying the first 3 installments on time consistent with not paying your bills on time? I suspect a 'No' on the first two, and feigning ignorance on the third

Point scoring Turkish? You really must learn to read AND comprehend... As anyone can see, I accused no body of points scoring, merely pointed out that ith teh club remaining silent and thus not giving us their side of the story, it provides plenty of ammunition to those that wish to... this thread is testimony to the fact that some have indeed chosen to do so. It is their right to do so, and to make whatever they wish from it, to use it as they see fit... does not make it gospel no matter how loudly and repetitively they shout about it. Some chose to make a big deal and go all 'whooo, scary, skint, club is beng mean' etc - others merely accept that without knowing what caused this or what brought it about, speculation is may provide you with hours of fun or misery, but its still all it is.

Club should have at least attended to present their case - as by not doing so, leaves them open to all sorts of speculation... That article also clearly states Saints paid the first installments on time as part of a 300K+ contract - so not sure we can suggest they are 'bad payers' as some are suggesting - would be inconsistent with those paymnets being made on time We dont know the nature of contractual dispute - just a vague comment that it over ran/design changes. Whilst I can not comment on who is in the right/wrong here as I have no idea what the terms of the contract were vs any impact on timing as a result of design changes, I would imagine that overrun clauses are pretty common on large scale projects and that its down to both parties lawyers to make sure its water tight before starting work etc. How many on here have had disputes with building firms I wonder with late completion, 'extras' etc... It is pretty common place Judge ruled in contractors favour - which means legally we now stump up the cash cant argue with that, and it might imply we had a bit of a cash flow problem, if 60k is considered a 'problem' with Prem income... but its all speculation. Good ammunition for those happiest when they can score points against the club though.

Sure Derry, dont think suggesting he got stick because of a POV is a bad thing?... and if I recall there were rumours of the swiss before Fry was appointed, but no one gave it much substance - because they were obviously very secretive... interesting you say he felt the wrong bidder had been given preference, especially as he is great mates with matty.

Think the politics have always been churning over in the background - the whole notion of a club being so much more than just a club they support to fans, the in the veins thing means some are always more vocal if they disagree with what the ownership is doing, or since the Sky era which drew in a different type, even more so, especially as the 'new' owners often dont come from footballing backgrounds etc... it upsets their ideal, a utopian vision where the owners and chair persons see the club as a charity to which they donate, that has fans on the board etc...

Think 100% of fans would applaud MO for his charitable work - hats off to him, nice to see. 100% of fans would probabally enjoy a pint and chin wag with him as he is obviously a passionate saints fan The stick he got from some (me included) was that during the grim old days, he like all fans sided with one side and because he has a public platform, his voice was heard louder than most on his stance etc. Great if you agreed with his POV, but bound to attract criticism if you did not, which I am sure he would say is fair enough. A small minority had an issue withn the rumoured pay he got for the half time entertainment - I had no issue with this as if true, it was a fair going rate, but we were quite skint at the time so maybe that did not help. Another group gave hiom stick because they did not think he was funny... which is a matter of individual taste and opinion, and again, I doubt he expects everyone to like his comedy. You respect opinion. So no big deal really.

All completely true... apoint that the blue lot down teh road fail to recognise is simply that borrowing is not the evil, its the failure to repay it.... however the point stands that it cannnot be healthy that so many clubs are now relying on wealthy owners to write off such huge debts - which increase year on year. Not only do we see the risks attached to such a strategy, but also the issue of what makes a fair competition is one that is too ofetn overlooked, because most of the richest owners are at historically bigger clubs... yet go back 25 years or more and diffrence in income and costs between large and small was relatvely close.... now they are off the scale. Is this really what we wnat for our domestic game?

Was hoping it was new material All I know is that there are umpteen brothers between Mikey and Matty - some are funny and some are Mike Osman...Boom Boom - only kidding, I'll get my coat