Frank's cousin

You don't half seem to take yourself...ever so seriously, don't you? Lol. You should have a special little constables helmet as you avatar , policing historic posts 'anything you do post will be documented and regurgitated at will be so we can gonna nana nana an...' Yep I threw a few nasties at Krueger, and hofstetter, not at KL, because it was the naive and blatant BS in public statements that was incredulous.... And remains so. Do I think we are in a better place now than when we still had Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Lovren or 97mil of talent? No we are not. We may through the graft and guile of RK and the new players - with luck and hard work- see this squad deliver a decent season and show potential to get better as it tells, which is at least something positive to build on. As to governance, financial prudence and accountability.... The real answer is we are probably in a good place now, as we were previously.... Except in the rather fertile imaginations of those with an axe to grind against Cortese..... Do you think the CFO form the Cortese era, would still be at the club now, if it had all been as 'hideous ' as some on here want everyone to believe?

Not quite sure why the fuss about this.. It's says nothing that is moot true... We finished 8th and then lost most of that side and MP, that we have replaced with signings that have done well in other leagues, but will need to show they can deliver in the prem... So we will need some luck.. Which I take to mean we must hope these new players are able to adapt to ten prem and deliver as well as those who have departed... What's so wrong with that ?

Firstly that is a well written, balanced and intelligent response. So thank you for taking the time to put forward your POV in an eloquent and thoughtful fashion.... But ;-) I do think you are being a little disengenuoys and even patronising when you speak of 'acting like an adult' first up, this is a football club web forum. Now not sure about you but last time I was at St Mary's I did not witness too many fans 'behaving like adults' - I see thousands of 'grown-ups' singing songs about Pompey scum, swearing at refs and generally being loud, obnoxious and passionate about their club.... In an environment that encourages it. Maybe you sit in the Chapel and it's all nice and sanitised, but for most football is the EMOTIVE escape FROM being an adult... Sure it's not be and it's not clever, but for many football is their interest and passion precisely because its not yet completely sanitised or devoid of passion.... Passion that leads to over emotive outbursts....yet you expect the same fans to meekly let major changes at eh club in the summer be viewed with dispassion? Most of us spend 99% of our time behaving like adults and dealing with all the responsibilities that brings. Seriously your post tries too hard - it's naive, and that is not meant with any disrespect, but surely you should see that a web forum about football is the place FOR letting of steam and having a mindless rant about the issues folk perceive at their club? In don't agree with the personal attacks on KL, but stating that Krueger was acting in an incompetent fashion was an opinion based on what we were witnessing... And we still await the real outcome of the summer of upheaval - something we will not truly know until Next May. It's the inconsistent messages driven in part by some on here that added to the frustration. .... talk of 'serious' financial problems when the recent spend has shown there were none, that it was impossible to hold on to players - yet when the club shows some balls and holds on the Schneiderlin it disproves this theory.... But ultimately no matter how frustrating, infuriating or ignorant an opinion, it's it's an opinion, even if a wind up.... And you either accept this is a place for diverse and often plain nuts opinions (the real adult thing to do) or you don't and set up something for yourself This place is full of ***** but that is what makes it interesting, even if only a study of thebonkers nature of it all...I behave like an adult at home, at work, with my family- the escape at football and being able to shout at the players, the board, the ref, other fans who are 'wrong ' is a release of all the stress and strains of the normal.....if that means I act like a child at games, in front the telly, or in a web forum, so be it...

To be fair.... There was history there. The almost 'read my lips' type history.... We were told one thing, yet another happened, so you can see why some may have lacked faith/ trust in what came out of the official mouths. Sure we can understand the logic of some of the moves, even the paler power issues that have driven much of the departures, but surely than means the Board should have taken more care with those public statements ? To many the concern over the board was not a question of 'deliberate policy' but a concern that their inexperience and nativity contributed to the departures and placed question marks over the future. they ppear to have learned quickly which is great, but weather we still have ambition and desire to progress beyond a mid table side, will by seen not now, but next summer.... Will we build on what we have, or go through the whole turnover again? If they are serious about progress, they will. Yield, not dismantle every summer.

no, non, neon.... Greenridge, we must not doubt or question anything, and all accept that to doubt is bet wetting, and symptomatic of er... Er... Crap fans ..or other such Bol lox .... Shoving concern over something you are passionate about is frowned upon apparently...

Nice post. I am just a tad surprised that given football is such an emotive subject - and despite our forum visionaries POV that it would all work out as long as we trust the board unconditionally- that those now enjoying the ' na na nana na' moment fail to accept that as in life there will be a spectrum of emotion and a spectrum of reaction. It it also is a tad disingenuous of these burg forum types, that their argument seems to have changed - at first we were told that the unprecedented sales were necessary because Cortese was playing god and spending Kats money without control, on his 'house of cards' like unrealistic drivel dreams... Then we were told that, no it's because the players want out given they have opportunities at biggest clubs... And it's just wheat so many good players that we so many get better offers.... But now we have seen so much cash spent, that when you add in the hidden and unreported costs of contract terminations, agent fees, signing on fees and taxes, we will have spent roughly what we got in, it sort of suggests there was nothing wrong with the finances.... Despite what hofstetter proclaimed pre sales....so what's the truth? Yes we should be congratulatory of the board for supporting Koeman and helping rebuild the side... And that is great to see. However, that does NOT mean they were not naive and taken aback by the nature of the desired departures... I maintain they lost control of the situation and we could have been left with bare bones, had we not also had a been of fortune and paid over the odds (seriously what is Long all about?- if you question Cortese with Forren, Osvaldo and Ramierez, it's only fair to ask this question at 12Mil) I said at the time I would much rather be wrong about the 'incompetence' displayed than proven right, and the good news as far as I am concerned is that it seems I will be wrong... As although early days, the sights are encouraging tha Ronald can mould this squad into a decent team... Not guaranteed yet, but promising nonetheless. But it's still a fair comment to ask why dismantle a team that had more potential - with maybe one or two extras,- and go with a more risky approach which is to start again with players who we still don't know how they will fair? The 'they all wanted to leave' argument does not tell the whole story IMHO - despite many on here seemingly happy to believe that it does. So well done on the replacement front, let's hope they can gelland and deliver. But will we face the same situation next summer if they do, and will so many still be happy about it?

Goal was made by Cork's pass though... hope RK saw that ball to Clyne - cracking passing before that as well...

Keep going, will get easier quite quickly, especially if you can try and do that 10k 4-5 x a week. I gave up the fag sin back in Jan and got back on my bike in Feb after 8 years of doing feck all - and did a 16km loop - took me 1 hour and 15 mins and I was completely and utterly gone.... I don't do that loop any more as my daily morning loop is 30k almost twice and I do that in about 42mins ... And that's in 6 months - have lost 9kg in weight (although still want to loose another 20! ) ... And joined a club so do regular weekend rides of between 60-120km - Mrs F's C thinks it's great as she had been nagging me for years to give up the smokes and do something about my weight... So keep it going and before long your'll be lusting after exotic Italian designed carbon costing £000s and thinking about what you can do to persuade yourself an others that it IS a necessary purchase ;-)

First up... Need to turn off the fricken auto correct on the iPad.... Gets me every time. Sorry Dalek you are Wrong. Typical of those who have succumb to the belief that football is all about money.... It's not its sport and sport is about being the best. It's the clubs that are obsessed with just being in the prem for the cash, that are are worst, as they have lost those sporting ideals, happy to just feed at the trough and nothing more.... Stagnating and feeding off the 'undying loyalty' that is expected of 'real fans' Sorry but that undying loyalty thing is a load of juvenile, archaic and romantic idealism. Ironic then that those who go on about these virtues also seem to talk of realism whenever ambition is mentioned... Nope, the fact that you think yo yo ing is acceptable is sadly what has become of fans... Your ambition to be the best eroded by the an acceptance that we can never be really good.... Accepting of a 'place' and in effect accepting of failure.... And that defeatism makes you a joke (if it were not for your obvious Wind up) - but you are symbolic of the crap attitude we seem to have... Accepting of the plucky loser tag Football fans in this country need to wake up and see that they are being taken for mugs by the armchair millions, many of whom are aboard and the ruling bodies - because if they don't the game will just drift further away. Until your crap attitude of accepting mediocrity or worse defeat is removed, what is the point of taking part if you never aspire to win?

Wes, I am not anyone should be so critical of opinions no matter how 'outlandish' they may appear in hindsight. Football is a passionate sport for fans, getting 'carried away' is a natural part of that and so the reaction what was and remain any inexplicable (whatever so called in the knows suggest) dismantling of a side that had huge potential and could have seen us improve again this season. I am am sure there are some on here who seem more obsessed with the 'told you so' attitude, than anything else, which is odd. ALL fans want to see us do well. We all want to seethe board succeed and demonstrate we are is safe hands, we all want to see the side assembled to even better and in effect prove any concerns and worries totally unfounded... It's a case where being wrong is brilliant, being right the opposite. I still maintain that the unprecedented volume of sales was not planned or encouraged by the board so on that front they have nothing to nastier for. However, they lost an semblance of control over the situation - and the public statements by Krueger and Reed were shown to lack credibility and just made them look silly. Yes the signs against Liverpool were encouraging, that perhaps we will not be dead Certs for bottom 5, but I maintain we would be better had we kept those players and just added one or two - and until I see the published accounts, I don't buy the whole financial mess thing, given a 110mil odd turnover last season. Time me will tell on how this crop does and whether we can rebuild, but the thought of loosing, Schneiderlin, JWP, maybe Tadic and possibly COrk for nothing come the summer should we do OK, is the real issue. Are you happy just benga feeder club that sells and rebuilds every summer? Because as 'realistic' as that may be, it's just pretty sad if its all we can aspire to and worse still that so many seem to think its acceptable. Ultimately it's just football and means feck all in the grand scheme of things, not worth getting worked up about, but as this is a football forum, where this is discussed, is it really a surprise that folks get over emotive about it?

Alps, not sure if there was actually a point in there struggling to get past the simplistic stereotypical and rather ignorant view of the Scots... Currently, most who have expressed a preference don't want independence and appreciate that there are benefits to a collective union... And if it goes to a NO, it will be so close it will still be a lot less than 50% of the voting public what with abstentions and 'can't be arseds' etc... I would have expected a 65% minimum for such a huge change, as with most referenda in other countries... But Salmond knows he would never get that. You are right he is a cock of some magnitude IMHO, a nationalist with a small n who is obsessed with being differentiated whatever it might cost... But don't make the mistake of thinking all Scots or those that live here value him.

Interesting that many in England, have not picked up on the fact that should Westminster no longer contain the 50 odd Scottish MPs, it's unlikely there would ever be any other Government in England other than a Right wing one... Great if that's your bent, but disastrous for Labour in England... In some respects it's interesting the Tories are not completely behind it!

Not sure that is quite right, although I know what you mean... but IMHO its more about what it symbolizes. We all know the risks associated with exotic sounding players who may or may not want to come or adapt etc. But given we had been told that the club wanted to build towards a 50%+ of first team from the academy, supplemented by some externals signings, and that this was what we finally saw last season - (and it looked like there was so much potential still to be realised and seen this season...) only for 3 academy products to be sold off and replaced by solid if unspectacular names... it just shows how the direction and strategy has shifted. I think we have lost the momentum we had over those last 5 seasons, and the continuity that came with that set of players. Yes all these things do eventually come to an end, and a club of our size and reputation does need to be realistic about these things... but selling academy products at 19 and replacing them with late 20s 'journeymen' is just not a model I have any affinity with... no matter how, pragmatic it may be... its just...'bland' ... the sort of thing Villa, Stoke, etc have been doing for years - just stay up and keep taking the money, with no real desire to ever be anything more - and that is what is depressing. 'Uber fans' may baulk at anyone moaning about it - but it goes against the sporting ideal... and its crap.

The disappointment is not the merits of Long, Tadic, Pelle or otherwise.... It's the fact that that whoever we got in, we had still let 3 homegrown , young and exiting talents go to be replaced by the solid, if unspectacular. Whatever, the optimistic believe, we are weaker than last season IMHO, and without players who we had seen develop and integrate from the youth set up.... Not at 23 or 24 when most would have gone with our blessings, but at 19... This is not 'bed wetting' as to be honest there are far more important things in life than a bunch of overpaid prima donnas kicking about a bag of wind - but in the context of football supporting, the anger and rent meant comes from that 'lost opportunity' not signing Shane Long - he is merely another reminder that what took 5 years to build was dismantled in five minutes....

Very true.. And some will, as we see with attendances going down with relegation or poor form. Football is odd though in that the 'Tribal' nature is encouraged so that we have to believe and accept that 'true' fans will keep supporting and going no matter how crap, or poor the side become or what the boards dish out.... Sporting ideals of being competitive or having ambition seem lost to those who like to play the uber fan and dictate the 'rules of fandom' and preach the mantra of loyalty whatever happens. Personally, sporting ideals and aspiration to be better and improve year on year are important. No problem if that is not possible because of finance or bad luck with injuries and loss of form, but to see a side on the cusp of achieving something, where it is obvious to all that it still has potential to do even better, (and not by spending 100s millions as some likes to believe) but with a modest investment in key areas, complementing ever improving locally developed, nurtured and coached talent, dismantled before it has a chance to realise that potential... For whatever reason... Is what is so disappointing and makes some, including me, question 'what is the point'.... And although I only get to a couple of games and so my spend is modest, even with the travel compared to some, I will struggle if we are worse than last season to maintain any enthusiasm.... Going backwards is not what sport is about... And whilst the hope that RK can deliver a decent season, and until it kicks off, we don't know, I suspect it won't make pleasant watching this year... In the context of life, no problem, way more important and pleasurable things, but in the context supporting a side for over 35 years, it's not great.

Haha ;-) i was was returning to the bike after a 12 year hiatus of cigarettes and beer.... The former slim self was still inside me... Sadly it looked like I had eaten him.... Especially as after 20 years of smoking, then finally giving up in Jan (clean since the 5th Jan) , and on went even more pounds. I still had a nice Cannondale from 2001... But being a bloke, the thought of a shines new modern carbon beast appealed... Mrs F's C even agreed and said I could spend the princely sum of £500.... I felt this sum somewhat miserly considering the wheel upgrade I had in mind would come in at that with a little negotiating... So I formed a cunning plan...I said, " my dearest, as I have finally succumbed to you constant nagging these past 20 years, to give up the cancer weed... And have been successful, would it not be fair to allow me to spend what I would have spend on fags in a year?" And by some miracle, I am assuming she still though cigs were around £2 a pack.... She was a little surprised when I cam home with a Trek Modane 4.7 with Mavic Cosmic elites.... And was duels told it actually came in about £100 less than the amount of shied to used to pump into my lungs in a year... Now it's 30 miles a day and about 80-120 most weekends... Lost 10kg so far ( a fair way still to go because yes I was a fat bastard) - but am now addicted, planning to do the L'tape In 3 years time and saving for the next bike;-) - where will it end.... Not shaved the legs yet kind. That rubicon need to be crossed at some point but not yet....

sorry but but this is where 'myth' comes into it. No one has seen any accounts from 2013/14 season. Thre previous one saw a loss of 7mil, which given it was first season back up is not bad... With transfer liabilities spread over a few seasons as is the norm. We do know that 13/14 will see revenue top 100mil. Having a strategy of 50% academy products in first team is only risky if quality is not there.... There is currently No evidence to suggest we were suddenly taking greater financial risks in 13/14... We spent 30 mil on transfers over a number of years... And invested in Staplewood. I do NOT believe ZnC was expecting KL to spunk 100s of mil on CL dreams, but to maybe not expect immediate returns, whilst we had the opportunity to progress further still with that squad.

This. great post and sums it up. I don't hate anyone, but have been left flat by this boards public statements and player sales... Opportunity missed, with those defending, because it meant the exit of their nemesis... Odd.

There really is a load of mis informed speculative and obviously agenda ridden ****** written on here.... And sadly so much of now seems to be urban myth... 1. Nc and ML both wanted the club to be self sustaining.... But ML recognised that to get to that level, we needed to be prepared to 'invest' a certain amount - It was assumed that a certain amount of cash was ear marked for our progress back up the leagues. 2. We do know that the 12 mil it cost to take the club out of admin was leveraged - it became a loan, and that after MLs sad death, additional sums of some 26 mil over the 3 years was also 'loaned' - we assume this is the 'provision' Marcus left, as KL seemed happy to convert this to equity when we were promoted. We do NOT know whether it was MLs intention to convert that 38mil to equity or whether it was KLs idea. 3. No one expected or thinks investment equates to spun king money or gifting cash apart from a few simpletons. Marcus knew a bargain when he saw one... So did his daughter. 38 mil 'invested' for a club worth maybe 100mil on return to the prem. 4. Further spending. This is where it gets tricky and where agenda seems to be getting the better folk. Yes monetise we're loaned from both BVI and KL. But substantial amounts were also paid back and the accounts show an operating loss of 7mil at end of 2012/13 - which financial experts in media suggested was a good year.... And that was based on a more modest Tv revenue of that season. 5. 2013/14 yes we spent 30 mil on players and committed to 30mil plus on staplwwood, BUT, both of these would have been planed across a number of seasons. Hofstetters naive or planned 'difficult' statement failed to acknowledge this... Maybe just to try and soften the blow for sakes which were not necessary... If being cynical. The seasons turnover also increased to 110mil + and yet our wage bill will still be estimated around the 50 mil mark... Again, still no drama from a cash perspective.... 6. The club may be owned by KL, but she can't just run off with 60 mil to pay back her initial 38mil equity and the additional funding she provided... First up such profits generated by club will be liable to corp tax... Second IF she were to decide to take a directors dividend, her personal tax liability will mean she loses 50% .... In addition she still owns. A club worth 100 mil or so....so are those who are so supportive and happy to let KL just take back her investment, really suggesting they are happy with her getting it back twice? After all if she takes back 38mil that was converted to equity, she would get this again when selling the club....any additional loans I can understand, but not a 38 mil dividend.... Had Lowe et al fine that can you imagine the outcry? 7. If she does want her cash back now, why not take it over say 3 years, allowing the club to maintain a stronger competitive edge? 8. FFP means she can't underwrite any losses... But could have paid for staple wood as infrastructure is exempt... Given the success of the academy and the value of its graduates, I can see exactly why such an investment request could have been made by Cortese to KL (speculation) because it would have a) a true investment given the value it adds to KLs asset, and b) it would mean a greater cash pot for transfers and wages as the club looked to build - not by dunking 100s of mil as some like to suggest, but by adding a few to enhance a squad built on academy products which was always the plan. What is so pathetic on here, is that there seems to be this need to have heroes and villains. Hate figures to blame, when in reality we just have different approaches. I am not angry with KL for the way things are going, just surprised that she has taken the strategy she has when IMHO, we could have increased the value of her investment further had that squad...and been self sustainable, by paying off director loans over 2-4 years, as with transfer fees. 9. I guess the big question that remains is: were our sakes driven by the board as part of a financial strategy, or was it a result of the players not being convinced that there would be continued progress? Either way, it's not a great reflection on the board that promised greater openness and transparency.

Reckon we should go for that young Gunners Right back... what's he called? Champers? Chumbers? or something, heard he is a great prospect, young and English so would fit the bill!

:lol:Such a classic piece of Bearsy Genius, I feel compelled to use one of my 3 posts just to salute you sir! take a bow bearsy boy!

Maybe it's not a 'Lie' exactly, but even a sycophant of the board such as yourself must see the idiocy and ignorance they portray when two directors say the following: Reed: chambers had to sold because he said he did not see a future at Saints Krueger: Morgan and Jrod will not be sold. So why s just say no one will be sold and keep Chambers instead of such Bo lox from Reed? Because clearly all Morgan has to do is state he sees no future here and he all be allowed to go ? No Krueger statement has come AFTER they saw the she it'd storm they created by cashing in on Chambers...and it not makes Krueger, Ralph and the board look like clowns, but Kruegers statement will be worth feck all if someoneactually offers what the club expects to get for MS. So who are you and what possible reason can you still have for being so supportive of aboard that has proven only one thing consistently; that they can't even get their story straight, let alone know how to inspire players and create a culture of belief in the club and it's progressive future. And don't come out with the same only BS that Cortese promised what he could not deliver... It's urban myth territory. Wayback when Marcus took over he and Cortese stated their ambition.: to have a successful sustainable club with at least HALF the first team from the academy and one that could one day challenge for Europe. That did not need '100s of millions of KLs money' to be spent - it needed drive, determination, graft, a degree of loyalty from players who believed in what we were doing and some luck with transfers that we got more 8mil Lovrens, that 13 mil Oswaldos.... Our liabilities in January of 27mil in outstanding Transfers (spread over a number of years) and the investment in staple wood of 38mil, again payable over a number years, would be well within our budget given turnover increased to 110mil plus last season.... The wage bill is a non story as even if we had added 20 mil to it from the previous season, it would still be one of the lowest in the Premier League... So again why so in love with this board?

Nothing has changed.... Reed has suggested that all a player needs to do is tell us they don't see a future at Saints and he can go... (Apparently that is why we simply had to sell chambers...) so surely that is all Morgan will need to do... After all both Reed and Ralph can't both be right as they contrdict each other in their public statements... Which goes to show how it's amateur hour in the Saints boardroom... Having said that, they have done a fantastic job of selling our best and most promising players, so they are good at something...

Sort of agree, but perhaps what is even more worrying is the complete lack of any consistency of message between what Krueger said yesterday and what Reed said when Chambers was sold.... Reed: (paraphrased) we had to sell chambers as he told us he did not see his future at Southampton... Krueger: (paraphrased) we are not going to sell any more.... Both can not be true. if Krueger is now telling the truth, then it undermines Reed's public statement,as why not be equally strong towards Chambers? if Reed was telling the truth, all Morgan needs to do is tell us he does not see his future at Southampton and we will apparently let him go with out blessings.... So when folks suggest the board are very much maligned and misunderstood, it's this kind of contradictory crap that highlights just why many think they have royally fecked us. As it happens, I believe Morgan will get his wish and Ralphies words will prove to be as hollow as his last. The only reason he is still here is no ne has offered the kind of money we obviously want for him...IMHO.

I know you don't believe it, but it does not actually need that huge investment to be reasonably successful....IF as we had done we invested and developed quality kids through coaching excellence...mixed with a few acquisitions funded by the odd sale - key was the harmony and unity that we had fostered and a playing style and team ethic that showed we were better as a team, than other dudes collection of individuals. That is what ML and NC wanted... But it needed an initial spend to get things in place.... We had come up from L1 with a bare and young squad.... We also needed facilities for a Cat 1 status academy if this strategy was to work... NC saw that and spent the clubs money on it, and needed some additional capital via BVI. Seems KL did not share the same view. I soldo think she would have sold had someone offered her what she wanted...