Frank's cousin

... always sounded like a a cat with its testicals being slowly crushed with a pair of plyers...

Would add though Turks that its about keeping the very best for those few years - the Rooney's etc as Levekusen managed with Ballack until after that CL final defeat hey was around 22/23 I think when he went to Bayern. Had Rooney stayed at Eveton for anextra 2 or 3 seasone, would that really have done any 'harm' to his career other than to hi bank balance?

Google translate: Cagliari in red, there is also the name of Davide Astori among the possible starters. Many teams have approached the defender, among them there is also a Southampton, which has already caught in Italy with Gaston Ramirez. The interest of the English club is real, Astori really like the Premier. However, there are few chances that the deal will go through, it is a difficult negotiation.

NOt at all...is surprizing, but, would be interesting looking at that to see which clubs qualifued during the years of 3 or 4 slots...those that qualified more than once.... Clubs like Leverkusen, Bremen, etc do well cyclically and on the back of home grown talent - that is the point. Is there any chance of keeping our best kids til 22-23 that is the question?

Dont forget Doddsy

yet Killer and Claus arguably one of the best pairings in the prem in 2003, both foreign as it were?

Well the need for a loan from the BVI (which I suspect was due to the need to pay ramierez up front) suggest swe aint cash rich. Fag packet maths, suggests turnover this year will approach 60mil - of which 30 ish or more will be wages (30 x 20k per week is approx 30 mil). operating costs/cost of sales willl swallow another 15 -20 mil or so, does not leave 38 mil - so this is usually split over the term of the contracts so with asset depreciation following on the books, but even so, its a lot for a club to comit to in its first season back up...

Well he wont wont to cross the don.... Surprizing we have the cash for this though...

Dont know the numbers but would suspect there have been far greater numbers of different clubs that have made it the CL group stages though, despite only having 3 CL slots for plenty of that time. I am not saying its 'so much better' but maintain the opinion that they have greater churn in clubs within the top 6 than we do here, far greater. and that is in part due to clubs having the 51% fan ownership rule, so no Hans Grosse boolox or Hansi Al Farim types coming in and buying trophies, and in part becuase home grown talent stays those few extra years to make an impact for their home club.... imagine if Bale, Walcott and were only now thinking of moving... with Oxo still here for another couple f seasons...

NOt as consistently as here, and thats the point. It would be the same as here if the big clubs took the best 16 and 17 year olds - they dont, most stay till they are older... although see Spurs have gotten 21 yo Holtby from Schalke according to German press.

Oh FFS - its about trying to create and environment/culture where we keep teh best youth for a few more years - nothing more. The question raised is whether this is possible or not given our 'want it now' boolox. Without such a shift no one without serious cash will penetrate the top 4 - with it it's possible as has been shown elsewhere.

possibly - personal terms may still wreck it or other clubs coming in.... and it will all be someone at Saints fault if as a result it does not happen.... whilst an exiting signing it true, Fonte and Yoshida have become pretty settled right now and a new face in the back pairing could take a while to bed in.

I would argue that the cyclic success of clubs like Leverkusen (currently second) (who only had a 22k stadium and got to the CL final on the back of homegrown talent such as Ballack), Weder Bremen, Schalke etc have cyclic success - and are not traditionally the biggest yet all seen CL action - Dortmund has been a financial mess and only recently come through that - but are massive, but also traditionally bring through players. Mainz and Frieburg, currently 5th and 6th. Hamburg, Stuttgart and Wolfsburg all experiencing CL group stage in recent years suggest the churn is far more active than within the prem. To me that is healthy for football... and none of this is built on a spending plan like Chelsea or City...

Problem is though wade that should we get relegated, its often the kids that go first, because they can get huge wage increases, leaving thsoe slightly older on bigger wages/longer contracts behind - think we are better now, as the expensives signings have been under 25s, but there is still a risk that the model only works if we can hang on to the best kids. Having said that, signing international quality players is a very positive sign to the younger generation so can help I guess in seeking to keep hold of these kids.

...and what is so wrong with desiring a cultural shift to a less 'want it now' mentality of our academy kids and their parents? Bundesliga is thriving right now and the natural churn (with the obvious exception of the Big M) as a result of clubs being able to bring through and hold on to tehir best academy talent for a few years at least is a major contributor to this. Is is imposssible to bring about any change in our shiedt attitude?

Not quite sure why some are not happy to discuss the past when its very relevent to the present... Most fans want that elusive cake that can be eaten, yet magically keeps growing.... and dont want to think about how or who is paying for the ambition. I too trust Cortese. I also believe the policy of investing in younger players is the right way to go especially as there is a built in safeguard of at least retaining value. But we have spent 27mil already and another 15mil would take that to over 40 mil - now spread that out over 3-4 years and its affordable - but what add to that every year and it becomes an area of concern.... my guess would be invest heaviliy now to maintain prem status but in players who could be sold for good money if necessary, whilst we wait for the the fruits of the academy to realise their full potential... not a bad strategy if we know for sure that the kids will stay for a few years and that there are enough of them to negate the need to spend another 15-20 mil each seasons over the next few seasons...

....it has nothing to do with 'net spend'. It has everything to do with living within appropriate means - something we did, we broke even through a sensible wage and transfer policy. We DID NOT have other sources of additional cash and were not prepared to borrow more... sensible polocy that most now see as the RIGHT way to run a club. ...HOW we spent the money we did and who on is another matter for which those in charge are accountable for their mistakes, but you can not fault a policy that should be the the enforced financial model that all clubs adhere to. Right now, my question to Mr Cortese is where this cash is coming from and how is the club in a position to consider spending another 10 mil or so (if these rumours are true) - and what provsion is in place for ensuring we can cope with existing liabilities should we be relegated - I an reasonably confident that we DO have an appropriate contingency for relegation, simply by doing the PP maths, but it would be nice to know for sure.

Sorry Weston, have to disagree. Sport is about being competitive and the fact so many clubs would gladly settle for surviveal or mid table and keep suckling at the sky teat for its regular prem cash injestion, is the reason why so many play 'fear' football - and this plays into the hands of the top 4 or 5 clubs. The pre return to the PL seasons should have taught us its much more entertaining and fun to see your club compete, win and improve, and importantly play without fear than be an also ran. I know most will disagree, believing that the status of the the club as a prem club is more important than 'how' we play, but this is an ego thing. We should be wanting the club to be the best it can obviously, but the best it can should not be about status with respect to the league its in, but with respect to the football we play IMHO. We cant say we hate the fact that moeny has destroyed the game, then act as a fanbase and a club, that maintaining that cash is more important than anything else, and being happy to settle for it. Where is the value in knowing that each season we will finish mid table, what is the point of that? Surely, no matter how unrealistic most assume a target is, w eneed to recognise that settling for mid table, is never going to realise it or inspire.

Yep really easy and incredibly stupid we did not borrow an additional 20 mil on top of the existing 30 mil SMS loan to improve our status with money we did not have.... just think we could have kept doing it year on year, and maybe won a cup final as well.... classic misinformed fan nonsense, that not spending money you dont have is simply a lack of ambition - you are starting to sound like a skate

Not true in all countries - Germnay being the best example of how talented crops of younger players that STAY beyond our usual 17 years - can allow 'unfashionable' clubs a cyclical punt at success. The problem in England is obviously the rediculously stupid wages paid, the greed of the agents and perhaps most telling a cultural thing. namely that young players tend to have their heads turned at 16/17 and leave for the bench of a bigger club and 25k a week, rather than staying at the club that developed them until 22-24 as they mostly do in Germany etc. Money has killed off much of the chance for clubs to break into the top 6 or so, but IF and its a fricken big IF, we could create a culture at Saints that saw us somehow hold on the the Shaw's, Bales, etc until they were 22-23, then it mightbe possible to have a cyclical flirtation with the top 8 - and if you get to that point its not beyond the realms of possiblity to be sneak in in an unusuallly successful season. It needs to start with educating young players and importantly their parents that they should avoid agents like the plague until players are in their 20s. These leaches never have the welfare or best interests of the players at heart, only their own wallets.... but greed is a tough one to crack. If this sort of culture did permiate throughout the top tier, then it would come down to which club ran the best academies, rather than just had the largest budget... but sadly the 'I want it now' generation couple with those ****** agents, has left this an almost impossible expectation. ...the irony is that most real fans would much rather see their club win things with local home grown talent, than as a chelskiciteh abomination of bought success.

Halo - I am not worthy, simply brilliant

Thing is FF, (and this is pure speculation based on no evidence whatsoever), what is to say we have not, and that a new deal is simply being negotiated in private, what with JP and NC being good budies again - no one knows what was pssed between them other than the result was they made up. JP has been many things, oft painted the vilain, oft in recent times the hero (and deservedly so) - but thing that sticks out for me is that after whatever 'clear the air' talks took place, he has been a revelation this season. It might be as simple as someone actually taking teh time to sit with him and talk through his needs, issues etc - some players need that more than a 'boot in the baws' (as they say up here) and maybe no one had done that before - maybe he just matured, who knows, but something was done that worked. I would hope that he will get a new deal soon and will continue to show the quality he has in earning it. He has shown great character and maturity in acknowledging his mistakes and working hard to prove his worth and quality - I admire him for that and hope that he recognizes how the club have helped him get to where he is now, even if it took a fair bit of public handbags to get there - the end result is what matters.

:-) Dont know much about Clifford to be honest, and from what I have read, he seems at best a maverick without any 'unique' ideas - but that's the point I guess. Lowe/Clifford/woodward etc al, none of them had 'new' concepts or 'innovative' ideas, just thsoe used in other countries, other sports etc, and the idea to try them in football - easy to mock it as its hardly set the game alight with success, but I wonder how much of that is down to a flawed idea - versus flawed or poorly funded execution? In addition, football and its fans ae often resistant to change - which is partly the reasn we have fallen so far bhind o the international stage.

Batting out and ensuring no chmace of an India win is fair and right IMHO. Diiferent if say a day or two lost to rain etc..

Problem is how forgiving or not fans are for failings... Unltimately, as far as fans go, its is rightly always about success on the pitch - get that right and most will be happy not thinking about the chairman, their personality or all the other politcal rubbish that we have seen debated till the cows come home over Lowe and now Cortese. Get that wrong, and then its open season on very personality and charctaer 'flaw' with a big dose of emotional 'hatred' thrown in for good measure. You cant defend personality or character 'flaws' - even though we ALL have them. But looking back its pretty clear that some of the ideas that challenged conventional football approaches, were not bad in themselves, just poorly executed or inadequately funded. Many of Lowe's approaches would be great to try with a lower league club, but not with a prem club fighting for survival. Many will scoff when clubs try new things - but IMHO, you have two choices - you accept that your finance is never going to allow you to challenge beyond mediocrity...and be prepared for the Villa stagnation, or you try and look at every aspect, flip it on its head and seek to eek out small advantages here and there. Lowe never invented the academy system, but he was prepared to invest in this and Bath up to 2mil a year, when many clubs simply did not, and many of OUR fans at the time were constantly saying this should be spent on the first team. Woodward and other ideas, were not bad, but timing was stupid, roles and responsibilities were clearly not defined to allow proper function. I like teh idea that we the club tries to be as progressive as it can and finances allow, rather than taking the route of spend, spend on wage and players whilst ignoring infrastructure and youth. If any club is ever going to break the mould and prove that big wages and transfers are not always necessary to get at least cyclical success, then any chairman willing to explore all possibilties is not so bad in my book - but we have to accept that mistakes will happen and they can be costly in what is a very delecate balance between success (survival) and failure (relegation).... as fans weare never forgiving of that failure, no matter how decent the chairman is - if teh chairman also happens to be an arrogant ego driven figure of hate to start with, he has no chance. ...at the very least, Lowe did one thing right. Our prem finances were in order. Something we have mostly learned to appreciate given the hideous mess others find themselves in.