Frank's cousin

Ah the self appointed king of odious and vindictive BS returns... If you really believe a football player's opinion is more valid than an ordinary fan on the street, so be it, but its suggests you are also one of the aforementioned sychophants - as to the 'teh', typos etc - well I have explained that in previous posts and if you find it amusing, that that says even more about you.

Now that is OTT - People are judged by their actions and behaviour as they should be. I happen to question whether Matts behaviour and action is the most intelligent and you play this card? Whether he is ill advised or just goes for it, I dont know, but you criticise me for 'daring' to call question Matty's Decision making and the same time think its fine for him to call Cortese a coward? Hypocrissy...

I would hope NIge has enough inner belief that he knows he will be a top top manager one day and its a shame he wont have that opportunity at saints, but will realiize his ambition elsewhere. He is not a vindictive type as witnessed by his parting message to players - classy act from a man from whom I would expect nothing less. He will be naturally dissapointed, but I doubt he will let it be all doom and gloom - he will move on and upwards and he can do so with his head held high. Relief? Possibly, I doubt any football manager's job is 'stress free' - but it all depends on real extent he was under, and whilst it wil undoubtedly have been large, I doubt it was a 'hideous' as some make out.

LOL. You really believe that you have to 'earn' the right to an opinion? EVERYONE is entitled to one, and just because Matty was a genius on the pitch and loyal servant does not give him any more right to have one - he just has teh advantage of a wider platform and a bunch of sycophants who lap up everyword as gospel.

But that suggests your main gripe is the timing?

Sure its not big or clever and probably childish - but tell me, have you never played the petty card against someone who may have crossed you in a more serious way in the past? And how would you feel if that person then used every oportunity to have a further did in the media? NOt saying NC is right in all this , but the last few years have seen the majority as one way traffic ****ing in.

Like me and Turkish - Turks the slightly rotund, big nosed former Saint snapping at my sharp pin-in stripped fine Italian suited and booted heals, becaus eI wont let him back in my castle to play.

Decent read and can appreciate your sentiments - however I would argue with teh use of 'sporting grounds'. Only last week we gained 3 points at Villa through what is arguably not a very sporting situation. Getting an advantage even if it means doing something 'not very nice' seems to be acceptable in some context, yet not in the 'greater' sphere of the chairman/manager/perception of the club one - some will say a dive is no where near as significant as sacking a decent bloke, but there are 75 million reasons why it could be if those 2 points keep us up and send someone else down - ultimately, in NCs eyes, he has made a necessary decision that is not very nice for what he believes is the greater good for the club. Many will not see it that way - yet where was the same level of sentiment and loyalty card when Lowe sacked Luggy? He had a better prem record than Adkins at the time? We liked Nigel, he was decent and different and rightly we we liked him being our manager, not some brash egotistical personality that normally does the rounds - but a man of integrity, good humour and positive nature - a decent human being - and as always (and again quite rightly) we are naturally more defensive of decent human beings - thsoe we warm to etc, but it is hypocritical to some extent as we have not extended such emotion to all sacked employees in the past. I believe a lot of the dislike for NC stems from the simple fact we are not in the know - we dont know who realy owns us, how much money we have, what the plan is etc... and as such think the worst and it drives fans nuts... 'its our club re have the right etc' falls on deaf ears and that irks. Would the support for nigel be as strong as it is now if he took us down? Even if we went down fighting and injuries were a major factor, I dont believe it would be anywhere near as unified. That is the nature of football and those that deny that are perhaps not being as honest with themselves as they should be - Take Niges advice an look in the glass.

surely?

Using words like 'coward' never clever - the piction cap also suggests many major mistakes - not sure I can think of too many 'major' mistakes and the Jury is still out on this one... Love Matty for what he did for us, but sometimes you do have to question if HE ever gets advice or listens to it - he does not always present himelf as the brightest...

True, but you need to remember where he is from. Swiss banking and Swiss business in general is usually adverse to media intrusion and like to conduct ts business privately - given the reputation of the British media for said intrusion, its not surprizing that there was little trust from the out set.

perhaps one failing its does highlight is the imporatnce of having the media on side - had NC been pally with them, perhaps the media would be offering a little more balanced perspective rather than @As for Cortese, renewed obscurity beckons. He will not be missed' - a cheap shot from a journo I thought better than that. No one has asked the questions for why NC has made these decsions, instead wollowing in the same emotive rhetoric.

One of the best bits I've read...; Patrick Collins (Mail on Sunday): "As football managers go, Nigel Adkins is an unusual chap. He doesn't scream at referees, strike theatrical poses, blame players for his own shortcomings or behave as if the world revolved around Nigel Adkins. Instead, he seems refreshingly normal and rather good at his job. In 26 months at Southampton, he lifted his team by 51 places and won them two promotions. But those promotions were his biggest mistake. For suddenly, Southampton began to be noticed. The chairman, one Nicola Cortese, came scampering towards the spotlight; a minor clown in search of a major role. Instead of enjoying extraordinary progress, he started to make deluded decisions, like looking for a new manager. Four games into Southampton's unbeaten run, he found him. The new man is Mauricio Pochettino, who speaks little English and has just been sacked by Espanyol after a relatively brief but notably unsuccessful tenure. Adkins has won overwhelming sympathy but his record ensures that he will soon find congenial employment. As for Cortese, renewed obscurity beckons. He will not be missed." I would have though Patrick Collins would have recognised that the two issues should be judged seperately - and then done his homework on MP - who had Espanyol 8th on limited resources and then to see 10 players sold the following season.

No different from most fans only giving the likes of Luggy a few games?

Like I said, I dont know - I suspect NA got a few months to prove if he was able to dleiver the next phase? and results, transfers etc did not demonstrate to NC that he did - could also be about when it was possible to get the man he wanted. I appreciate that this makes it all sound and appear quite ruthless - not denying that, it does. But when we use the word 'calculated' it does not have to be negative - it can be about minimising risk or aligning a decsion with the strategy and having the balls to make the decision. It is a huge risk bringing in MP now and I am happy to admit that if thsi is part of the strategy then waiting til the season end would ahve been better - but would teh raection have been any different? Would it be any easier to sack Adkins if we survived in teh prem and he was being lauded for doing so? Sure it woudl be easier if we were relegated under Adkins, but that would also be a set back, and then you have the loyalty card. On a personal level, I would like nothing more than to have Adkins here at the helm and to have watched him develop as the club progresssed. He is a decent guy of integrity and made me proud that we had someone like that as our manager. But that is not what is happening and as much as I dont know whay the decision was made now, does not mean that I dont believe that there was a more to it than just ego + NC being a cant.

Dont think anyone is in the 'masterstroke camp' yet Wes, time will be the judge on that - all some are suggesting is that teh decsion was always on the cards and that in NCs eyes, the strategy was always going to require someone with different credentials, as harsh as that is on Nigel. What for one person is ego driven meglomania, is for others the ability and williningness to make harsh and difficult decisions despite the backlash when they believe in their plan. I suspect a lot of why so many have a huge issue with NC is more to do with the fact he keeps us in the dark, we dont know the details of the plan, he wont explain it publically, yet we hunmger for details even if we believe its pipe dream or unrealistic nonsense, our own egos demand to part of that 'inner circle' and can not cope when we do not understand what on the surface appears a 'mad' decsion'. I think especially those in the media as pundits really struggle with the not knowing so react as they do...

Is that the best you can do when faced with someone you disagree with?

I can, and can appreciate the issue around the sacking/loyalty argument is highly emotive. By old school and insular, my point is that too many are not prepared to look at anything other than the 'shocking decision' and thats that, explaining it simply that its ego or Cortese is a cant - he may well be, but I doubt he made this decsion because he is. He made this decision IMHO, because it became clear to him that NC did not have the ability to deliver the next phase. That might be a cold calculated 'ruthless' decision in most of footballs eyes, but then most of football will express outrage one day, whilst lapping up the 'business' that is the greatest league in the world hype and taking the silver from betting sponsors happy to joke about who is next for the sack and the odds for it - its this hypocrissy that I find so distasteful. The game IS where it is. If we expect success and growth, demand it even (as most did under Lowe shouting to spend some feckin money and show some ambition), we need toi accept that to acheive that we might not have the touchy feely fan friendly club its possible to have in the lower leagues.

Sadly, the days when I need to fight over a comb are becoming less - I carry it off OK though in a sort of Connery sophisticated way.

Plenty on here not differentiating between the two decsions though. 1) the sacking and the reasons for that decsion, and 2) who has been appointed - different issues Many of those that you disagree with are not 'defending' either decsion, but trying to understand it and look for the rational behind it - and not simply jumping on the emotional 'outrage' rhetoric bandwagon. Its easy to simply react in that way, but it adds nothing to the debate and simply illustrates that football is still so insular and 'old school' in its mentality.

Nothing new really from Le Tiss, is basically waht he said on the radio. Given that Le Tiss is always quick to add his twopenneth (especially as he has a long standing gripe with NC) its a bit hypocritical to suggest NC is alone in having an ego problem - maybe he should take a leaf out Nige's book and look at the glass?

Would like to think I gave as good as I got - particularly pleased with describing Hypos location. Amazing the psychology of these boards, classic playground tactics employed by the 'crew' - they wont be satisfied until there is no one left to argue with...

To be fair LD, it is their job, and done deliberately to create controversy and the phones ringing - them doing it is not whats sad, its the sad fact that some seem to place value in that opinion - I daresay there are plenty whose egos are bruised because that nasty media were pish taking - and that MP must be a nobody because it said so on the radio...

Its their job, and they love nothing more than to be able to write stories like this - it is news, but also of the type that allows them to present themselves as the 'voice of the people' for a change... the same journas and papers that perpetuate the 'Premier league is the greatest league in the world' hype and feed themselves at the same table. The same broadcasters that utter 'digraceful decisions/hope they get relegated' before dicussing teh latest 'sack race odds with the phone in corporate betting sponsor... So at least view these 'comments' with that in mind - there is hypocrissy in all of us and the media is best in class at it, because they do it with no shame and conveniently forget anything written yesterday - the 'chip paper' mentality literally taken to heart. UP, the sentiments you discribe are great, community enriching part of the fabric of life etc. But where is that same community up and down the country where most clubs below the top tier see dwindling attendance and dwindling revenue - many close to broke as fans stay parked in front of Sky watching the 'best league in the world' TM, rather than being present at the ground of their local club? Its easy to suggest that the monster that football has become, has been driven by business that has disenfranchised the 'traditional working class' fan, but the reality is fans were dwindling well before Sky arrived and clubs faced problems up and down the country - In a nutshell, the numbers within each community prepared to stand by their community club during non successful times is far lower than in times gone past - and most within the community only attach themselves to it when they can reflect in the glory of success, not when its wallowing in the mire - surely 'loyalty ' must go both ways? Given how fans do react and withdraw their cash as attendances fall when clubs are releagted of performing badly, is it any wonder that clubs no longer consider fans the be and end all of the club? Strategies, plans whatever, are designed without the fan in mind - because if they work the fans will come along anyway, and will desert in numbers if it does not, so why consider them? The reality has always been that kids like to be folowers of success - when I was at school in the 70s and 80s, 90% 'supported' liverpool - associateing tehmselves with the success and being onside with classmates was always more important than the 'community' angle of the local club - I dare say it shifted to Man United and the Chelsea in more recent times, but suspect its still a truism. We just like to romantisze the game, a nostalgic view of an era that probably never existed in reality, unless you go back pre 70s - when it was an afternoon passtime, without tribalism or aggression. Yes it was part of the community fabric then, because it was about all there wa sto do on a Saturday afternoon, but I think your notion that its is still that important to the community is wishful thinking I'm affraid. I believe that was lost when so many were disenfranchised from the game not by Sky and business but by the cages and the tribalism.

Laughable.. seriously you must be ****ed in the head - 'your type resort to to deal with'? Heh? Jeez...