Frank's cousin

That was not the point of the analogy so is irrelevent - the point of that anology is that rightly or wrongly EVERYTHING including football changes/evolves. If fans can not adapt to it, they will be replaced by others - again rightly or wrongly. Its has always been thus - the Grampa, Son and Grandson flat capped rattle era was replaced by the more agressive Yoof, now being replaced by the polite sitting middle income crowd...in this country. As fans of any era, you either adapt and follow the new way or become extinct - the point being it football survives with or without you or I. This may seem callus and harsh but 'evolution; is like that and in 2 or 3 generations time, it will be forgotten anyway.

Its a vicious circle - I dare say many clubs strated upping tickets post all seater to compensate for revenue loss, especially when the revenue sharing stopped, but would not be surprized if part of the hike was designed to try and remove a certain element from the crowd... as the prem Sky riches came, and it was clear that a more affluent demographic was interested in football and felt safer coming back to all seater grounds, I am sure clubs have exploited it further - no one is saying that is right, but it is the way it is. Therefore, my point has always been, what is it about football and supporting saints that IS most important to me if I cant have it all? Well it has to be how we play, how we progress - thatc ombination I mention in a previous post - otherwise what is the point if we dont have a desire to improve?

You guys like a good laugh, masks the ignorance and unwillingness to take anything serious enough for a discussion. Well its hilarious as feck that you want to dismiss my opinion here, yet are equally dismissive of even discussing models used abroad that would possibly ensure Sour's 'sort' can continue being an integral part of teh club culture... which is it to be? I never said it was RIGHT, just that I accept that it is happening

Oh dear... look not at all, Couple of points, 1) did not think I needed to add 'this country' into every line - and 2) I am more than aware of how things operate abroard and Germany is a prime example - but we are not allowed to talk about pricing models that might work here had we more capacity or not because Turkish thinks tahts is hilarious

FAIL #2 It really is simple

FAIL# 1 - it really is simple trust me

I dont disagree that the pricing policy is making it harder for some fans to continue going - and yes the game IS moving away form what many see as its current fan base.... The point is though, the game has always shifted in the past its been in terms of culture, just so happens the current shift is primarily financial which obviously impacts most on those with lower means. Yes that is sad, but it is reflective of most things in life, we each have choices to make on what we can or can not justify finciancially - its not just football that has seen this change. I want to see the club reach whatever it can - and not at whatever cost as some like to assume, but on footballing principles - for me the idea of youth + a few select younger foreign players, playing a modern fast paced attcking style is what floats my boat, and in the modern game there is a cost associated with that. If for others its the attendance that means most, the terrace culture etc, fair play, but tio expect both is more unrealistic - those times have gone. We accept that or stop going, but will say again, football will continue to change - the question every fan needs to ask is whether they want to be part of it or not.... but whinging about it aint going to make a blind bit of difference.

I paid my dues for over 15 years as an ST holder and hundreds of away games - Current location makes it slightly less practical.... but hey what does that matter, I dont go now so have no say? Jeez... next your'll be saying your dad is bigger than mine'.... fricken playground this place at times.

No its one in which a self appoint 'elite' try and define a narrow view/demographic of what a fan should be/feel/believe' and who feel threatened when they see change - and obviously this does not include Japanese - who obviously as a nation have no idea about supporting football....

Aye simple analogy - if its beyond your comprehension suggest you get an education

Yep thats right... obviously understood every word ....

You love making sweeping assumptions dont you - You are the one that does not get it - Every generation has its own view of what football, and clubs mean to them depending on what they grow up with, that the whole fricken point - Things change and evolve and each generation makes it their own as they are entitled to. You can go all king Canute about it if you like, or you can stop whinging about change and be part of it. The 'uberfan' mentality is so pathetic its scary....

It is still the hope, even when playing shiedt - and sorry but the triablism you seem to 'need' or that you say is the 'soul' of the club is based on a period of the game that came 100 years plus into its life - crowds went before and crowds went after - and you have abslutely no idea what kind of fan I am . I do understand those sorts of supporters, I am just saying the game existed long before they came along and will continue to do so long after they are all at home complaining about Japanese tourists feeling sorry for thems and missing out. Dinosaurs became extinct becuase they could not adapt to teh CONSTANTLY evolving environment. Football has been constantly evolving since day one and the 'sort of supporter' you feel 'owns' football and should be the only type allowed, is merely just another species in that continuum. That 'sort' will either evolve with it or die out - fair enough, but the game is still interesting enough people for it to thrive - just in a different way from what YOU think it should - and you and 'your sort' do not have that right, sorry you dont and its a cliched romanticism and arrogant to think you do. Would add, I understand that view because its human nature to be only really able to appreciate what we know and what we grew up with, but to assume the game was always thus and always should be is what is wrong in my opinion

But why do some feel that just because ' business culture' of the game is changing, they need to walk away? (price permitting) The game is still the same, and most would argue a fair bit better than 30 years ago? Supporting STARTED life as there was excitement in watching what was happening on the pitch, its why sport is entertaining - that has NOT changed throughout, no matter what demographic the audience. If its the 'Atmosphere' and culture of the club has become more important to you than the game itself, then that is NOT the games fault. Its more symptomatic of the something else missing in life, belonging, fraternity all that ******, not the game

No, Cant se why fans are having such difficulty with Pochettinion... Potchetino, er Pochetinario...oh feck it 'Tino' wil do

Why? that is their choice - they go it becomes a self fullfling prophecy - there is no devine right that fottball must confornm to one culture, one ethos - eveything evolves and only the fans themselves can ensure it goes in any one direction by sticking with it. Walk away so that you can sit home alone pontificatiung about how the game is no longer the same, its soul ripped out and other such cliched crap all you like, but its totalluy a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Football began as blokes kicking around a ball on pitch - some decided to watch - it grew, it evolved and grew again, apart from a decline in the 70s and 80s when the very 'culture' some view with nostalgic rose tinted glasses and the tribalistic nature saw dwindling crowds and interest. But ultimately its still about blokes kicking abll around on a pitch trying to score - if you and others have elevated it into some deep meaningful tribal emotive thing - thats your business, but it id noT start that way, nor was it like that for the first 100 years or so - that evolved and its just changing again. You dont like it, fair enough, as you say, others feel they do and will fill the empty seats if you stay away.

I liked this response 'Sensible Southampton Fans 1 v the ever-hysteric English media 0' Not sure it goes into that much detail of wider implications - what should they be? Should football really be SO important that it causes deep wounds, hatred, protest as if we were fighting a corrupt or dictatorial Government? Passion is strange beast - and what it means to each of us will be different - for some its standing up to politely applaud a great goal, for others screaming at Guly. And whilst the cliched claims of water cooler positivity in the office and increased production within community business following a decent result, may resonate, I tend to file that one with Seaman Staines and Roger the cabin boy in the urban myth drawer. The emotional outburst that some seem to think is necessary to demonstrate passion and loyalty is another. Ask those who have not followed the mass out-pouring of grief expressed since Friday what they think, and there is sadness at the way a decent man has been treated, but recognition that in professional sport, people make decisions on what they believe will deliver results, not on sentiment (oft the preserve of the 'plucky' loser). Supporters/fans are also guilty of incredible hypocrissy - the way we vilify players we dont like, from Guly, to Forecast, to Pulis. Ship them out, laugh and poor scorn - yet whilst we complain about the WAY Nigel was sacked, we have no sympathy for players or managers that dont meet our expectations - and lose no sleep when our wishes are granted and they are packed off to obscurity - forgetting they are people as well. We want it both ways, to be able to show our passion for those we like represented by such positive platitudes, loyalty, decency, interity and chastise those that make the decsions with 'disgust' or profanity... yet celebrate the dissappearence of the players and mangers we dont - airbrushed from memory, except as future figures of comedy, like Adkins from the program notes. Passion IS what football is about. But we should not expect it to be demonstrated in the same way by all, nor should we believe that by demonstrating it when it suits us, that it gives us the moral high ground - we do afterall share more in common with Cortese than many would care to admit - nor is passion the preserve of the vocal. Despite what is said in that piece, I was proud of the fans and players response last night and I believe Nigel would have been to. He remained dignified throughout and the fans and players echoed that last night. Nice to see that some of Nige's best qualities have rubbed off on our fans and players.

Lambert: Que?

Still a big fight ahead of us - those first 10 games cost us - not Nigels fault, but I am sure the 'fixture computer' had a hand in ensuring the 'big's side had easy starts to ensure a more competitive title challenge so wont get carried away. One thing i will say though is, taht although most wont be happy admitting it, the new man does have a bit of an aura about him and there seems to be a definite buzz around it. NIgel was great, would have loved to see him stay and grow with the side, but the fact the club did this albeit in a cruel way, does make a statement - I get the feeling that the players although sad, confused and dissapointed by Nigels sacking, perhaps see this as a confirmation that the the 'plan is real' - and will also get pretty excited by it..., time will tell, but it could be the masterstroke that some see it as... just a shame for it to require such a sad end for Nigels time here.

He speaks Spanish, Frencha and Italian + undrstands English - so think he will pick it up quite quickly - considering Spides and Gaston are likely to be key parts - at least they will get the details - dont think it will be an issue... the media and football world like to over play this as its part of the whole 'foreigners' thing.... ....Neville made me laugh last night, he was very good and is easily the best analyst/pundit I have seen in long while , but when he was going on about opportunities for ENGLISH managers and pointing out its sad that here is another foreign manager - he seemed to forget that there are a good few SCOTTISH managers in teh league including the biggest name - love the idiocy of the pundit wingers who go on about the foreign imports - all that crap we had a few years ago about how it restricted opportunities for English players and thus the impact on the ENGLAND team - yet prior to the top sides were full of SCOTS, WELSH and IRISH, which they always seem to forget to mention....

It was shortly after Marcus's death, when Cortese issued a statement to fans that it would not effect the club - as Marcus had made provision for the club. He also stated at that time, that should the family decide not to continue, he had several contacts who would be keen to step in. So basically we know nothing, but can assume that we are neither minted nor skint - I suspect we do have a pot or trust left by Markus, but not massive amounts and possibly more for infrastructure improvements etc, than splashing out on stupid wages and big stars. I suspect we will continue to look for younger players who could be stars like Ramierez and combine with the best of the youth... a pretty decent policy, but will only work if we can keep hold of the likes of Shaw - at least for several seasons and then benefit from their TRUE worth - eg 30mil instead of 6 or 7

FWIW Nigel would have been proud of the fans tonight - did exactly what he would have done which is remain fully behind the side, and not make and undignified protest that might have impacted on the team and MP. Was good to see. The 'only one NA chant was loud and clear, but did not become a dominent message. good all round repsonse. Glad no one headed the only and only SISA bloke.

Its probably nothing But puncheon spent more time on the toilet than I can remember Corrected it for ya

Nah, he wasn't waving his program

saw someone with a small white table cloth - or large napkin, everyone was staring at him though.