Frank's cousin

Founder member - I am honoured - have to admit its not as much fun as the now sadly defunked Lowe Luvvie clan - there we had to be able to to take down a brace of pheasents with a single shot, standing naked in a a snow covered Cotswold field... and enjoy spending Sunday afternoons looking at pictures of trains - you were not allowed to mention football unless with a Dutch accent. With NC, its all boring stuff, hes such a serious guy all the time. Always going on about improving the club, looking to figure out how to keep the best young talent etc... must be something to do with the 'project' he keeps mentioning... and he does eat babies, and he beats large cardboard cut outs of MLT and LM with a sh!tty stick every Thursday evening. Rumour has it that the small dog kennel with a heavy chain was where he used to keep Franny Benali tethered - I wa stold on Wednesday nights he would walk up to him poor some of his urine on the carpet and and then push Franny's nose it it calleing him a 'dirty little boy' - but that may just be a made up.

I think its great as it helps identify the agenda numpties - anyone who used the CoC in as serious derogatory fashion can be laughed at and ignored as a bampot.

What does the initiation ceremony involve? I think we should be told. Send out your best spies and let us know.

Young people take note - life should NEVER be about 'careers' - more you earn, more you spend, and you dont get proportionally happier - follow dreams and vocations, and work to live, not live to work - or you end up like those sad ****s in the city... loads of money but feck all else.... I am not the first, and wont be the last to say, I should have followed my heart not my head when 18...

Really, if thats the case, I better carry on as before .... just for you like

yeah yeah, but does he get to **** all the chicks? Answer the fricken question!!

CB Fry, the most pleasent individual on the forum. You know feck all about other folks opinions because you never actually bother to try and understand, and just make sweeping assumptions and label - perhaps its easier for you ? No one has denied we have spent money, and no one is pretending there is no small element of concern about where the money is comming from. Its fair to assume, there has been some capital left as a legacy, but without that knowledge we are right to have that concern in the back of our minds. You forget that the the original purchase price of the club, + the 6 mil a season in L1 and CCC was recently converted to equity -so its not as if there was some kind of gamble - you may not think it, but I doubt Cortese would have spunked 18mil if that was loans and high risk at that with L1 and CCC revenue levels - if he had he would have been mad. Therefore IMHO its NOT a big feckin deal to net spend 6 mil a season, when that has been covered by the owners. Idiocy - you need to go back and read all your posts - and then take a long fricken look in the mirror - wont be pretty

Its misleading for another reason as well - transfer fees are are only a small part of the picture - teh wages bill is the biggest drain in most clubs - for every 20k a week its a 1mil so suspect we will be a lot lower in the table if thats factored in.....

True but if appraoched with an open mind and a realisation of this, getting a few decent seasons out of a YOUNG money grabber with a positive resell potential aint a bad thing - they may want bigger moves, but they have to perform in thsi country to get them, so the idea is fairly sound.

What kind of cult are wee talking about here Turks, you reckon its like Waco, where NC is the only one who gets to **** the ladies? Or some sort of sacrificial thing? Maybe, the original Ted bates stature has really been preserved and is now used behind the alter in what was formally the board room - the nice picture of a train having been discarded in favour of one showing NC in Nepoleon garb, with his feet up on peasent like fans? I think we need to be told - bets get your contacts on this right away and see if they can smuggle out some images.

Since 2008/9 18 mil net, or 6 mil a season... not sure that constitutes a 'crack' mentality... and I doubt our wages will be anywhere near those at many other clubs with one or two exceptions. But what does that matter, when the old miserable numpty CB, can use it as a sh!tty stick to beat his nemesis with...

If he's successful with us, he will end up at Real or other bigger club, so matters not - but with luck we may get some interesting and successful years - we'll see

Not sure this 'out of his depth' argument is appropriate in this case - Adkins was NEW to the prem and learning fast. He is an intelligent guy and had shown he was able to adapt and learn quickly. I do not believe he was sacked for being out of his depth or in general because of our overall performace this season - which give or take a few results has been in the right direction. Every manager makes selecetion errors now and again etc and especially one who is still learning his trade at the top level. I also believe he has enough up stairs to get better and do very well in the prem in time. Although we will probably never know the true reason for the sacking, I suspect its a combination of things - the biggest being that it seems NC's plan includes bringing key people in for each 'phase' who do their job and then move on - he has a timeframe to which he is working and the fact we are a head merely brings the end goal forward, and does not mean we can relax for two seasons. Its possible NC and Adkins disagreed on many things, not in itself an issue, happens all the time, but if around the pace of progress, how its achieved etc, a parting of the ways was also inevitable. Someone suggested his current name/status may hinder transfers in... possible, but maintain that these things are usually overcome if the deal is right for selling club and player - in most cases its down to money. Problem for NC is the way he communicates or lack of it - and the way in which it was done, leaves him rightly open to accusations of callousness. I do not undersatnd why in such a case there is not greater communication to expalin decsions and thanks for service - its not difficlut and would go along way to ensuring the whole media frenzy and bad PR is minimised. And I believe its fair to ask that question. Having said that, I also think that there need to be a little more honesty from fans - we are fickle and we are hypocrits - the way we express moral outrage in this case compared to not giveing a flying feck if it happens to someone we dont rate - both are human beings yet we seem morally outraged only when it suits - for others, mostly players etc, most are happy to help them pack and drive the taxi. Adkins is not on the breadline, is not having his house repocessed, he is a decent manager who was paid decent wage beyond what most of us will ever get to, and high his stock in football very high, already being linked with many clubs - he wil do well.

Both... So we have crap PR... crap chairman, crap ticketing policy, crap program policy, crap parking... makes you wonder why anyone would be happy with the good two promotions, academy investmnet, player investment and ambition, realistic or otherwise. Sure I would love both, the ideal chairman who can give us the success, be the best mate to all fans, is loved by the media, the envy of every other club , cures diseases, solves world hunger etc... lovely, but that aint the case - we have who we have, warts and all and as the vast majority used to say when Lowe was in charge 'it means feckall if you dont get the results on the pitch' - and we seem to be doing alright in that department.

Ok as excuses go its up there with the 'dog ate my homework' but seriously who cares? So we have a 'mad' chairman, doing 'mad' things - makes it kinda interesting and keeps us arguing.... meanwhile in important matters he is spending money on infrastructure (a lesson to our pals down th road) and looking to bring in aditional talented younger players... having supported the last two managers to ensure we had year on year progress...

Fair enough, but untimately does it really matter? Journo still able to get there sound bites.

Er - think this is a non story..... ''But he added there was public land at the front of the stadium where journalists could carry out vox pops'' So not sure what the big deal is is probably correct

Biggest problem IMHO is that we struggle to separate our perception of personality from decisions made, strategies adopted and importantly how those are executed. As with Lowe, most fans NEVER met him, never knew what he was really like as a person, he may have been a bad man, he may not, unless you spend time with someone, and get to know them, you can’t judge their personalities - especially not form one or two interactions, that would usually be at heated moments... so all you can do is judge their actions - and how we feel about those varies and changes. When Lowe was here, we wanted ambition, to 'stretch' the budget and push on for success. Times change and perspectives change, and with the club having been through what it has, now we are happy with survival for a year or two and see the ambition as potentially destabilizing... football fans hey! In both these cases if you completely remove the person and personality from the equation - which is not easy if you have existing prejudices justified or not- and look just at the strategy and judge that, it becomes even more complex... Under Lowe, he wanted financial stability and would not risk that, with the club living within its means first and foremost and the academy providing a combination of revenue boost from sales + some new players for the first team - nothing new or novel, perhaps apart from the break even bit - considering all around us clubs were happy to take on loans and loans to fund success - most fans at saints wanted some of that too and the boards were full of 'spend some fecking money' and 'show some ambition'. Lowes biggest problem was that by not taking any risks and all around us clubs spending money they did not have, we got left behind and the moment injuries mounted up to key players, we went down.... In effect the strategy was solid as most would now agree - be financially stable, but the execution was flawed for a number of reasons, the choice of managers, the lack of any real momentum and ambition means a club will struggle to attract both decent mangers and decent players. Most saw it as black and white and hated him.... so the irony now of some advocating a middle ground is not lost on me... Move on to Cortese and again remove the personality prejudices - the on the field record has been impressive - not spectacular but impressive nonetheless - not afraid to make controversial decisions to drive forward a strategy build on the very ambition we used to crave - unrealistic to some, exiting to others, and apparently affordable. Again, unlike those down the road, major infrastructure investment in the academy and potentially in future on SMS is part of that plan - not just a spunk it all on mercenaries to buy success but a measured investment on infrastructure that is a long term legacy and value and importantly we are told vital to fulfilling the ambition - home grown talent the spine of the side - something that IMHO counters the argument that the clubs will lose its soul and identity in pursuit of this... but opinions will differ. If you are going to be the best you can, and pursue success, then most would probably feel this is not a bad strategy. Cortese though has a problem, against a perception of a bad personality, again most have not met him and rely on rumour gossip and importantly judge on actions - and as there is not really any criticism of the progress we have made to date or the strategy behind it, we look at his other 'failings' - the treatment of Adkins, the apparent airbrushing out of the clubs history of a man who delivered so much and with such good grace and humour, a man we liked, the spats with the ex-players and manager, the ticketing and car park issues, the small things that mean a lot to fans - much of which he has got wrong, some may well be justified, but again the method used to go about seemed at best callous, as worst 'disgusting'. I think many may well agree eventually that the MP replacing Adkins was a good move, time will tell, but the way in which it was done makes many uncomfortable - another potential example of a right decision, poorly executed. Ultimately though, the only way to remain sane in all this is to remove those personalities and mistakes in execution from the equation - its political at times, agenda driven at times and divisive and make a judgment on the progress it brings to the club. Some are now sitting in their ivory towers determined to stress that success at any price is not worth it and that if it comes at the expense of the club behaving in a certain way or 'losing its soul', it’s not worth it. ... a fair opinion if those very same people were happy that we did not strive for any success under Lowe. Football at the top level is as it is, Cortese did not make it such, The sky riches did and the natural evolution of the game driven by a more global audience rather than a local fanbase. You simply cannot be successful without embracing some of that charmless 'brand' based mentality some are so opposed to - it’s a necessary evil if we want to more than premierleague also rans budgeting for 17th every season and being happy with that. At least we have been told that the local part will be served by home grown talent.

Think it will ultimately depend on the player - wages, sign on... and whether he feels its a good step... think we have the money to compete with teh fee, but far from the kudos of playing for the scousers -.... yet ;-)

This always make me laugh (appropriate I suppose) - who gives a flying feck what others think of us, Are our egos really that fragile? You also need to differentiate between good ideas badly executed or with the wrong personnel/no funding - and good ideas... Youth/open sexy football is a great idea - you just need the talent and quality to make it work.

This is the problem CB, that there are multiple issues intertwinned. 1) the moral issues about the sacking, 2) the footballing rational behind the sacking, 3) the concerns that some have about autocratic decision making, 4) the 'plan or project, and whether there IS any differentiation etc Personnally I think you may be being too cynical on the 'plan - yes it may have been tried before, yes it may not be a wholly new model, but where others have failed, instead of just assuming ours will, identify WHY they failed and look to overcome it. I believe our biggest challenge will be as Cortese himself said, how the club creates a culture that keeps the best talent at the club unti they realize their full potential - there is a big difference between selling a Luke Shaw at 17//18 for 6 or 7 mil and selling him at 23 for 30mil + and reinvesting that as the next one comes off the conveyor belt - That to me is the biggest unanswered question.

Think there are two types of 'shocked and disgusted' - those genuinely upset that the club can appear so callous - or unrewarding of the work NA has put in.... and the way in which there appears no recognition - may be perception only, but perception is everything in this case. some or all of this group may see teh logic in the decsion, but are still angry about the way it appears to have been done - as you say we do not know the details of what happened on exit day, which is alos something that fuels further speculation. The second group may or may not agree with the the logic, but see it as symptomatic of the way football has gone/going. They have difficulties with the whole commercialisation, disenfranchising the 'traditional fan' (a loose term that IMHO is not a seasy to define as some think it is). Cortese is seen as the driver behind shifting away from the 'traditional values' of a community based club and actively embracing what is considered by some 'wrong' with the modern game. Therefore, whether the footballing logic is there or not, is irrelevent to them as its more about the clubs willingness to make them. There is OBVIOUSLY a human aspect that I would we all agree is questionable behaviour - with the caveat that we dont know the full story - but I still come back to the hypocrissy of many fans who are ahppy to sling ridicule at player s or managers they DONT like and are more than happy for them to be slung on the scrap heap and forgotten - Pulis, Forecast etc and there are countless examples - did the fan reaction to Branfoot show us in the best light, we seemed not to care about personnal attacks on a person because of footballing reasons, yet when its turned round, its only Cortese who is guitly of 'disgusting and immoral behaviour' - That is what I find hard to reconcile. Whether the decsion works and is right from a footballing perspective, time will tell.

I don't disagree. My. Point yesterday was a simple one though that fans will walk and be replaced - I never Sid it's right but that its inevitable - most fans would see the dilemma being pulled in different directions - the base rational for supporti g a club and football is to see it grow , win and compete so - why else were we all on The pitch after Cov? Yet set against that is the reality that the price goes up And as a clue strives for success it becomes more and more commercially focused. i am not disagreeing with Sour Mash that this disenfranchises a group of fans, nor that the very group it most disenfranchises are many of those that traditionally stick with the club through thick and thin- and often the most vocal and younger fans, that is sadly a direct result. Where I disagree is that football fans belong to MANY 'sorts' - which also include many that went in L1 - myself included. Ther should not be any 'sort' that is considered better or who feel that football is exclusively for them- that is just daft- the second point is that the 'sorts' that go to football have changed before and will change again. I could make a strong case For those fans disenfranchised by the way football was in 70s and 80s - who only came back when they felt it was safe to take their kids again. Their view would be totally different in that the so called 'sanitisation' made is possible for them to return. Of course ticket prices no longer represent value - obviously but it comes back to the dilemma of success - we all seem to want to have our cake and eat it

... to amuse you... you keep going, you dont walk away complaining about Japanese tourists. Cant afford an ST? Drink less beer, dont drink, well select the games yo can afford, but dont walk away. That is life, harsh, cruel as it may seem.