Frank's cousin

UHm... apologies but even in administration, Lowe and wilde would still hold their shares whatever they may worth... unless they sell their interest whatever it may be worth. Only insolvency and liquidation would strip them of their share - and it is not beyond the realms of possiblity that under those circumstances they they would do a Ken Bates and buy back a greater share at a reduced price from the recievers.... just a thought to spooil everyones day. Seriously Administration should be avoided at any cost.

Its the biggest dilemma facing us... the knowledge that perhaps the faith and belief we WANT to feel is misguided and naive... Its the paradox of being a fan... because of your love you WANT to believe that the club is on the right path, but as the weeks go by and the results stay the same that faith is erroded and its foundations become very weak indeed. But its this faith that underpins much of what being a fan is all about. I think our situation is further complicated by the Lowe/Wilde debate. Hear me out. Say we had an owner who we all liked, but who was poor and unable to put in cash to prop us up. Had in the past say done everything possible for fans and the club through personal investment and establishing a culture at the club with which we ALL identified and ALL welcomed. Say that owner told it like it was, told us that sadly we were now skint, the cupbaor was bare and we had to try something new, rely on youth development as it was cheap, with a coach that was cheap but had a knack of working on a shoestring with young players, but it would take time and hard lessons before the results happened. The owner also states honestly that this approach will also help raise much needed funds when the best assets are sold. Would we under those circumstances have more patience, would we accept it and provide a unified spirit of support through the dark times ahead, or would this cause the kind of divisons we are seeing now? I think this is important - the Lowe/Wilde factor divided the fan base before, and its influence on our patience is increasing. As fans we want to believe the club is doing all it can, if we are confident that it is we tend to be more patient and importantly more supporting of what it is trying to do. I think the problems we have are two fold. 1. there is simply NO trust that the club is doing what is right under the circumstances, and 2. because of the history, there is simply too much bad blood that some fans would never believe that the ownership has any kind of solution no matter what is tried. The sad thing is this all means that we dont support with 100% committment that the club needs financially, acknowledging that its impossible to maintain the enthusiams and love and financial outlay for something seemingly at odds with all we believe about Saints. And it gets worse, as dwindling attendance and a culture of misery will effect the mood and atmosphere which in turn will effect the very kids that some believe are the future of the club. So its no surprize that this frustration leads in many cases to anger and resentment and worse of all eventually apathy. So what is the solution? And thats where we all seem to differ - I dont think those on the 'positive/naive' side are wrong for wanting to maintain their 100% support despite teh results as I would suggest they see the situation as described above - eg the Lowe /Wilde factor is irrelevent - this is not saying they support them, in fact many may dislike and 'hate' them equally, but that we (I do include my good naive self in this bracket) get our perverse pleasure from being a fan no matter what despite the frustration! On the otherside there are those love and committment has been driven to fury and hate by the years of suffering and continual on the field decline for whom only ownership change will suffice. No one is wrong here. The only wrong approach IMHO, would be this continued resentment and hatred if the current approach actually worked and delivered what the board naively think it should. COYRs ;-)

Yeah administration will be very funny..... FFS

Each to their own I suppose. Its our hard earned coin, so we spend it as we see fit. There is alot to be said for the simple fact that success breeds success - we win - we climb, we entertain and the crowds will swell whoever is in the boardroom. And, there is nothing wrong with protest if thats your opinion.... the question I have is does it actually work? Ther are some that will argue that the eventual financial collapse will bring about ownership change as the shareprice collapses - but this is a bit of a misconception IMHO. At present we have a club that is worth just under 8mil with approx 32 mil of debt - should the shareprice collapse as a result of increased debt and no longer solvently trading, someone might pick up the club for a song, but would still need to effectly strike a deal with all the creditors if the club is to continue trading, let alone 'invest' in the playing squad.... so the actual outlay for anyone coming in and 'improving' the financial situation is not going to be that different. And who is going to do that right now in the current financial climate? Lets also be honest about the 'Lowe experiment' - its the cheap option and right now its the ONLY option we simply cant afford the 'experienced CCC players' who would blend seemlessly with the kids and set us up for an easy ride to the top. We are delude if we think we can when the club is still losing money. The onlyway we can change that is 32000 every week at the ground, which will provide a modest war chest from which to buy that experience and I am sure Jan would do exactly that... hes not stupid, but is towing the line and tryinmg to motivate the kids that this way is through choice, rather than necessity - which in my book is far better than the Redflaps 'demotivating we are skint' idiocy.... and no one can doubt that we are not at least trying to play attractive football. But we have a stand off betwen fans and club - lack of success means many stay away, Lowe and Wilde mean some stay away - success will bring many back, as to the lowe protests, well they might with some success, but as more come back their absence becomes less important - but for this success we need time and money and the ONLY way weare getting more green back is through the turnstiles so its a viscious circle that only we can break.... ...so I have to focus on the one good thing in all this mess. The way the kids are playing.

Go Marching In

Want to enjoy games more? Depressed at the results? Worried about relegation? Fed up with Pompey work colleagues having a laugh at your expense? Miserable that Saints have 'fallen' so far from grace? No longer enjoy your football and watching Saints? Starting to feel like Alpine Saint? (;-)) Fear not, the answer is really quite simple - ask yourself WHY you support Saints? To follow and enjoy the trophies and success? come on this cant be it, afterall when was the last time..... OK so maybe its because you have grown up with supporting a top flight team, one that regularly beat Manure? BUt since when was who we beat really a decision on which to base supporting choice? Or is it because they are your local side, through thick and thin? A side with a rich tradition of providing us with the rollarcoaster ride of 1 step forward 5 steps back, a rich tradition of leaving us with on the edge of the seat in last day relegation scraps, but importantly a side with a rich tradition of entertaining us with charismatic players from Paine to Channon to Le Tiss, to Walcott, to Lallana? Did it matter which division we were in in Ted's day? Did those supporters of the bygone years abandon the club because supporting a 3rd division south club was too much of challenge to their egos? did they feck... their support in the lower league days is what a clubs culture and history is really based on.. not those who need global franchisepremierleaguegreed to feed their egos. When I was old enough to actually make a proper decsions on who to support in the mid seventies, we were in the 2nd tier. At school everyone supported Liverpool so as not to have to try and be an individual... going against the grain and supporting with your heart and not your ego is what makes all those fans of clubs outside the top TV elite the REAL fans, not the plastic airmchair 'elite' who are obviously too insecure with themselves to form an opinion themselves. I have been proud to support Saints since that day in early '75 through the triumph of '76, the 'glory' of the 2nd place in '84 - easy times to be a fan, but more proud in the dark years, the regular relegation scraps, the eventual fall into the CCC, and the current financial turmoil, I support the club DESPITE the crap, one that is still TRYING to entertain, bring on and encourage youngsters in the spirit of Le Tiss, despite not being able to AFFORD the balance of youth and experience that many believe is the only way... the maverick spirit. Com on embrace this, remember why you support Sainst and the POSITIVE reasons you made that decisions as a kid, afterall the clubs history when you started supporting was hardly one of annual extensions to the trophy cabinet was it? We are about a community that has loved this little unfashionable side from the creaking Dell against the odds, against my belief that we were never side that the SKY/prem aliance really wanted in their top league (they would much rather have the Leeds and the armchair viewers this generates) and what should set us apart and in solidarity with every fan of those clubs without a cat in hells chance of ever dining at the top table is that we support our club for the RIGHT reasons - not the fake culture being encouraged by the Prem, CL or the Sky millions. Local club, Local fans, genuine love. Remember that and the enjoyment we get from the kids playing now, will be ten fold and defeat will be about the learning process and victories will be so much sweeter Hear endeth the sermon. Cheers and enjoy!

There in lies the problem..... 30 years ago, if in this situation, we could be pretty sure that we would have the time to see this young side develop as a unit and would probably end up winning the leagie a season after promotion.... sadly now there is no time. The best will be unsettled by rumours and mouthy agent wa*kers and be off as soon as the greenback is offered, and the panic of perhapsgetting relegated wills et in and the 'experient' will be abandoned. What makes it even worse is that with teh possible exception of Lallana and surman, the team is actually made up of ordinary players where the total playing this way is greater than the sum of the parts.

I sometimes hate being a football fan.... because right now I am torn between a new excitement at te prospect of what we might achieve versus whether we are in division 2 before we know it. OK so maybe not that bad, but i loved the way we played yesterday (for the most part) and Lallana's goal summed up what football is all about. Its exciting, and the pasing agme from lets be honest from such a young and inexperienced side can be joy to watch - I love the idea that my team is playing this way..... but we will get slaughtered many time this season, if we dont sort out teh defensive frailties. The question is, would I rather we played a more physical, direct game and had 12 points on the board or watch the kids develop with style with 3? choices choices... for now I can cope with the position as we will soon be due top spank someone.... the natural other worry is that the cream of talent will not be here come season end, play offs, relegation or mid table - the reality of championship sides. Arse....

Anyway, better be careful, only one post left for today.... Oh Buggerarse! ;-)

LOL ;-) Having said that it would surely have happened so quickly we may already been spewed out into a parallel universe? In this one BWP actually stays on his feet and Jermaine has 196 England caps

Alas, in my new job, I actualy have to do some work, and with only 3 FREE posts have to spread them about carefully, like 3 wishes from the Genie.... what's happened to the interwebnetwidewolrdcyberspace thingy? and paying to post? So now we only se more than 3 posts a day from those that like the sound of their own keyboards ;-) On a serious note, I think its true to say we are ini a kind of stasis, the doom and gloomers are sat in anticipatin of failure that has yet to materialise, the Lowe haters are probably plotting somewhere in a telephone box outside a pub, and the rest of us are not quite sure what to make of it all, 'positive signs during difficult times' © 2008 FC, its a paradox that means we are probably all a bit dumbstruck. We dont want to be all doom and gloom as there are nice encouraging signals, yet we understand that its a precarious situation, untested so its perhaps easier to keep the gob shut for th time being .... oh and the international break naturally

I dont think anyone or even Ron is of the opinion that there is no one better equiped to deal with our situation. but its perhaps unrealistic to expect these guys to 'oust themselves' when they are concerned about the investment that have in the club. Therefore as fans we have two choices, whinge and moan and vent our spleens about them, their past and what they seem to be doing at moment thus digging up old ground and never presenting a positive front, or get behind the plan. Think we also need to careful how we phrae things as there are plenty who take things at face value and this in turn simply enhances the negative - eg, I dont recall Pearson being sacked - which would have been a negative mark against the cards of both of them, he simply did not have his contract renewed as they powers chose to try a cheaper and some would argue perhaps more realistic approach given our finances - I am sure you know the difference, but its the sort of thing that does influence some. My biggest question mark has always been WHY, they continue to WANT to be involved. If its purely to SAVE their investment, then I am sure they would simply stick someone with a proven record of rescuing companies in the crap. I think there is more to it, and its niot simply ego, which is a simple naive stick that comes out when there is no explanation we can think of.

Whilst I am more than happy he left when he did, as the momentum was downward - we cant get away from the fact that the previous season we could have been promoted and then we lost several of our best players... NOt as bad as we like to make out, but outlived his usefulness at saints for sure.

Its Monday morning, the skies are grey and was stuck for two hours in traffic getting the 58 miles to work, so a quick (well maybe a few lines) destressiong on here mifght help set me up for another 'day at the office' I would add two points - One that was raised on 5Live the other day - namely that we are struggling in the UK to produce decent coaches - which is a contributor to why we find it hard to find a decent English manager. The traditional manager spends too much time AWAY from teh training ground and too much on the mobile to agents IMHO, too much tiem fretting about players he wants, wants rid off, rather then on tactics and coaching to improve the players he has. On the continent, coaches start with youth teams and the systenm is always teh same - you ahve a group of players and you develop the skills necessary to get the best out of them, playing to the strengths of the players you have rather than trying to force systems on players who sadly have been grown up on 442 and feck all else. Surely the mark of a good coach is getting the best and improving the playesr he has... afterall and average coach manager can probably improve results with a cheque book, but with out it its about decent coaching and surely that is the purer and more honest assesment of a 'manager's ability? And as wee also all know, the finances are no longer about offering 'buster' Barnacle the Whizz of the wing an extra 5 bob a week to prop up what he earns in the abatoir. And with the potential for getting involved with the mystery that is the swiss banking agents and their abilty to sell Carlos Cickaballio to Nonsporting club de utd for 20 mil with AyK Cuuub NOrding only getting 2 mil, its hardly surprizing they want to contriol tehir cash and let the coaches coach. With respect to Sky, lets be a little fairer, they didindeed drag football out of teh darkages, some will see this as an affront to the 'working mans' rough and ready terrace culture, others as a welcoming civilising factor that meant you could take the kids.... that will depend on your own perspective, but no one can deny that the money and the Taylor report have at least seen vaast improvements in Facilties if not atmosphere. I think what is sad, and perhaps worring is that now that most Premierleagur clubs are owned by those without the history associated with their clubs there will come point soon where they start to do their own TV deals and then it will be game over and a closed shop -Lets be honest if we were part of it, we might not have such a downer on it, even if it its 'not the same' as winning with local lads made good, but It will happen, and UEFA and FIFA will huff and puff and capiltulate fearing becomming even more irrelevent to gopverning the games structure... if only to preserve the International copetion, but how long before contracts prevent players at the NIke Manchester Devils or the Smirnov Sparteks from player for their country and in typical US franchise way, the league winners are crowned World Champions after the 28 game play offs? Maybe however the sooner theis happens the better, as football can readjust to more local traditional values, sure the best will still be plucked away to the franchise clubs, but those left behind will probably have the passiona dn pride again that we as paying fans expect when playimng for club and country - the only question that really worries me about this is whether there will be any young fans left who want to watch it, rather than support clubs in the WSL ™ World Soccer League The second point is about Sky

I dont think we should all be pointing fingures or having a go for being fickle though - I think the argument should really centre on what fans/supporters should be doing, which is feeling happy yo suuport their team under whatever circumstances maybe? Right now we dont have a pot to **** in, but see kids that care and entertain us which makes many including me happier than for a long while -IF we suddenly had a Man City suize investor who was going to buy us out ofthis league I am sure again the majority would be happy, its the last two years of 'wildernesss and no direction or anything really to be proud of' that depressed us - perhaps the 1st Ted Bates statute was symbolic of the mess we were in and when that was put right the clouds could begin to lift? I do however agree with the sentiment that success does mean so much more when its achieved AGAINST the odds or in footballs case without the mega bucks - through cgraft and guile and having those representing the club actually care about it. For me the one thing I always wished would be drummed into youngsters from an early age is that premise that sure you can transfer yourself to Man U and take teh short cut to medals and trophies, but thats the easy route - far better to stay and have your very preseence attract better playesr and achieve success with those you have come up through the academy with - Imagine the side now with Walcott and Bale - had they had this foresight....

Think we should write a nice email to Amanda Stavely ( see is quite attractive which is always a bonus ) and see if she knows any other rich blokes that need to loose a fortune in football ;-)

What an excellent post - Totally agree. The sad fact is though that for clubs like us to and many others to survive on this ethos, they still need support and arses on seats - and sadly the kids and many of there parents even in the local area, would rather watch 'Utd' and the rest of teh so called greatest league in the world as they they believe the bullsh!t spouted in the media - they are lemmings without a mind of their own - "I must follow success as sky tell me its great,the best most exciting even though its only ever down to two teams and ANY league in the world could do this with Skys money, I cannot think for myself and need to be associated with a 'big club' to make up for my small penis" Is their mantra It is perhaps ironic that at this time we are actually seeing what really makes a club - what truely matters to fans and what really 'gives us our club back' - Its nothing to do with the chairman, board, money, old legends trading on past glories, or fan friendly rhetoric that we have had way to much of in the past two years - its really very simple - seeing a young team, many local, playing attractive football with enthusiasm and smiles on faces - like they care about the shirt - football that we as a club can be proud of, even if the results dont always go our way. With luck, this will prove to be infectious and the fans will return.

Cest la Vie... when experiments work they are seen as visionary, when they fail as foolhardy. Pearson did a fantastic job in keeping us up against the odds yet this to was a risk by LC - as JP is now for Lowe and Wilde. Its a question of your own philosophy versus the need for rapid success in football - I love the ide of experimenting and trying innovative things, but in the modern game the pressure for instant success is so great from fans, financial and importantly survival, that experiments with unproven approaches make us all nervous! The great thing is though it also makes the pleasure of success that much more enjoyable - imagine a saints side playing stylish attacking football AND getting the points!

100% agree

Hello again.... Started new job up the M3 in Bracknell after a summer of gardening leave so been away from the site for a while and have not yet seen the lads play this season so cant really comment. From what I have read/heard it sounds positive so far despite the departures, and I like most was pretty dismayed when Davies went to Stoke, but the early signs are encouraging - I like what is happening but would offer a cautious note: this is a young side, that likes topas it around. This will work fine whilst we still ahve the good weather and decent pitches, but what happens come February, with the sodden fields, do we have a plan B? How will we fair against the the more brutish sides that e have always struggled against? I want to be positive as it sounds like its great to watch saints at the moment, and cant wait for Saturday, but we need to measure our optimism against the grim reality of the competitiveness of this division.