Frank's cousin

legend!

To be fair Duncan, looking at this from the outside, its actually quite and interesting 'Response' - if a little agressively put. I would not say its spiteful, but then I guess its perhaps different if aimed directly at you, but its hard to sometimes criticise so much when you look at some verbals aimed personally from some posters not too far away...

Actually JOnah;s posyt is quite witty - nothing dislikalble just opinion alps, same as Duncan, same as me, same as you... Jonah does actually make some valid points here.

Leon and Lawrie - just the response to Ex-Directory from last year - oh the games these people play....sigh

If the only conseqyuence of forcing his hand through financial pain was Lowe ou, I would not stand in your way, but the more we make Barclays nervous about revenue, the greater the risk of them saying enough is enough... Lowe might be gone, but administration would come with it?

Does anyone really believe that 'upsetting Lowe' will actually make a blind bit of difference? The guy is so thick skinned, its pointless to fight this in that way... FFS if you want to challenge and enemy, you need to understand him and find the true weakness, not just keep shouting louder.... Lowe, whatever you may think of him, will listen to what he believes is serious and sensible debate that will find solutions that are in his personal interest. Tap into that psychology and you might get somewhere. 12 Years of Richard Chorley ranting at him has got him where exactly?

Think the clue is in the name 'Trust' - whatever you think about the shareholders and the way the club is run, you need to have some degree of mutual repsect and trust if you are to be taken seriously. You can have the loudest most organised voice, but you cant force folk to listen.

Oh I dont know, Capt Mainwaring and Pike seem to have everything unddercontrol...." whatever you do, dont tell them your name Pike!"

It may well be true that Lowe said to DMcG that 'he was the striker this season' - but in what context Duncan? It could just as easily have been said as a motivator, afterall DmcG had delivered in teh youth and reserves but failed to make the step up and maybe needed a confidence boost? I am not saying its that way round, but merely wish to point out how these things COULD be taken completely out of context - yet become FACT so easily when entering the fan gossip world.

Fair enough if its rallying the troops - that is the only thing these folk should be thinking about, nothing else and certainly not continuing their tit-for-tat sh!te in public - its just selfish - and that goes equally for Lowe and his crowd by the way, i dont to hear this crap right now, we are in a relegation battle. This public bickering from Corbett, Crouch and LM is also ultimately about ego, otherwise they would keep their own council now and urge fans to get behind the lads. There is simply NO benefit in this unless they have a concrete guarranteed solution lined up that will save us...

It should only be considered if its a foregone conclusion - because IF it were to happen, what we have experience these last few season will be akin to champions league glory compared to what is to come...

YOu dont necessarily have to pay of the debt in a takover, provided you can demonstrate a strong and rock tight case for continuing th repaymenta nd renegotiate the contracts - it would be tricky though. Given teh current situation, If someone had 20 mil say, baught al the shares for 10 paid off the overdraft and had 2-3 mil left as a slush fund for when low monthly gates put pressure on the SMS loan repayments, it would be possible, but would not really release any cash for player investment and thats after 20 Mil, 30 and it could be done.

Fair enough but what is plan Z?

TBH Duncan, I can see why this perseption exists, but we dont really have any evidence? I think Wotte, is simply also struggling with this side in this league... It may be that someone like Euell is on a big appearance bonus, but this should now not be stopping the use of experience to try and halt this slide to oblivion. You know me, and where I stand, but I will be the first to say to Lowe, IF ITS TRUE that he is placing pressure on Wotte re team selection, Its got to STOP now. Now is not the time for hanging on to pride because he has the youth strategy and does not want to give it up... I would NOT see it as a failure of the system totally by getting some more experience in the side now to keep us up... we would still have given the kids a great deal of experience this season to build on in the next, so swallow your feckin pride and do whatever it takes to keep us in this division.... I dont think Duncan I could say fairer than that. I have as you know always tried to saty in the middle ground, to try and understand both sides of the argument and to be as fair and reasonable as I can.... so Rupert if you are listening, please for the love of this club, recognise this is not some mindless ranting by the 'lunatic fringe' but a genuine desire to see you act in what is OBVIOULSY in the best interests of this club - the freedom to choose a side wityh more experience to finish the season on the up.... Alternatively, it could also be that Wotte is also of the believe in the system and wont budge.... which if anything is also more worrying.

Looks to me like we have until the summer when teh OD will be reassessed based on several things.... the division we are in, and the advanced ST sales for next season...

Now I am confused! This thread shows smething good though... we all want teh same thing but are all confused about how to get it! I do think its a shame that the '3 working together' was not at least tried - because all three have some positive qualities which if they focused on could provide a sort of bastardised reasonable chairman - lowe and his measured fincial controls, Wilde and his 'spirit' and blagging, and Crouch the communicator keeping us all happy... who knows maybe if we lock them in a room, turn off the lights supply no food , just 48 tinnies of Carslberg Superstrength, blast tehm with some lurve music, we might get something....or is that just plain wrong?

I think the one area of influence fans do have is that for both Wilde and in particular CRouch, they want to be seen as doing the right thing by fans... as we know Lowe does not seem to care and makes his decions based on what he believes to be right for the club, but it seems Crouch in particular wants/needs that endorsemnet from fans to underwrite his approach - his populist appraoch seems on the serface to confirm this. I am not saying its completely wrong - afterall keeping customers happy is vital - but it can make it it difficult to make thsoe difficult and unpopular yet necessary decisions.

I would say you are maybe underestimating this number, or at least the very vocal way in which those that do think this way force across their points - it may be a matter of perception from these boards, but its still the impression given by many?

Those are all very valid points and to be honest, although it sometimes comes across as wantiing to blame fans on either side for their support of one situation over another - this is usually simply born out of the frustration of opinions not being at the very least respected, if not correctly understood. The only folk to blame for this situation are the those directly involved in the decisions... but as you point out as the fans made thse in good faith, so I believe did those making the decisons,even when ultimately flawed.... my biggest gripe has been against those who have seen a 'deliberate' attempt to feck things up in every deciosn made rather than appreciating that although its not turned out as the senior directors would have hoped, its been done with at least some logic behind the deciosn, even with we believe from teh outset that it was not necessarily the right way to go... I think we too often base our judgements of these decisions on limited data.

It was a very difficult time for fans still raw with emotion from the relegation and a seemingly lack of direction as to how we should get straight back up. Many simply wanted a a new chapter, something different, even those who had been relatively supportive of Lowe during the previous 5 or 6 years. The thing is despite urging caution when Wilde and CRouch turned up, because it was clear that whilst they talked a good game, there was nothing concrete in their plans, I cant say i wanted them to fail... I wanted it all to be true, with Wilde and CRouch prooving to be the dream team. I did not however, believe it. Why? Because a) the legendary manifestor was full of desire butt no substance and the pandering.... the pandering to fans, lots of 'we've got our club back' rhetotic and getting the Corbetts and LMs back... surely whats wrong with that, these folk have a strong history with teh club???? you may ask... well its exactly taht history that is the problem... its a history that spanned a different era and culture in football, when it still truely was about community spirit and small scale non -profit enterprise.... Things have changed so dramatically, and the words spread publically from LM and MC did nots eem to acknowledge this shift, this change, it was as if all the woes and problems could be lifted purely by teh wave of nostalgia and the self belief taht if we wanted our club back enough and supported the noble words, all would be magical again ... Now culturally it possible to still run clubs that way if prepared to be small fry, but not if we really want to be part of the top flight and stable again... I have never said that Lowe and his cronies are the only ones who can do this, there are likley to be many who are better, but I simply cant see from what we have seen and heard (which is little on strategy) how Crouch ( and Wilde at the the time) et al were going to deliver or that they saw past the nostalgia with practical solutions... it was a concern then and is a concern now. (And yes, I also struggle to see how the recent changes from JP to Wotte is going to make a difference, or with the benefit of hindsight how we were going to do with just kids - although I could see why it was done and hoped it would work) For me that sort of summarizes why I feel as I do, far from satisfied with the way things have turned out, but unsure of where change will come from and what impact it will have... in this case, simply 'making fans happier , does not cut it for me.

I think the biggest indicator that we were not selling anyone and that perhaps a deal has been struck with bank is that Lowe is on holiday... whatever you think of him, he is not the kind of bloke to let others rule the roost over such things as money... he wants to save hihs investment and believes he is teh best one to do it....

Ar... at last. But I admire your honesty even if i cant agree with what you say. Its wierd you see, despite what some may think of me, if the genie in the bottle guarranteed that if we let ourselves slip into relegation, admin, and Lowe was out, but this paved the way for teh succesful new era, of stability, growth and ultimately say in 3-4 years premiership return and european glory, I could take that.... sadly there aint no gurrantees or genies, and I believe administration will see us suffer for a long time, not short time. For me it our hope lies in the fact that there ares ome who will be desperate to avoid seeing their share investment dwindle to nothing. So its hoping they know what to do.

Sorry UP, you have done it again by trying to suggest that I am somehow trying to be superior or saying noone else has teh moral integrity etc... thats is simpy not what is being said and you know it. BUt it helps create me to be some sort of bbig headed loon so can be conveniently ignored. I AM not the only person able to make this distinction, and as I pointed out (but you chose to ignore) there are many on teh anti camp who have based this decision on nothing more than pure footballing and economic terms and their opinion is just and valued and debated and respected, but as you know \i am not talking about these folk - what we disagreew on it seems is teh number taht fall into the camp that i am criticising, you say a few, I believe there are more than that especially when added to by those who just join teh mob without even thinking. It does you credit to defend them, but I cant agree with you.

NIce analogy Snowballs, made me chuckle - I guess the fence is indeed rocky, unstable and the pointy bits are causing havok with the unmntionbles, but from where we are sitting there is steaming dungon on both sides of the fence! ;-)

True and it does NO side any good, or shows them in good light. As to your utopian rubbish UP, ..'get real' this is football FFS which in the grand scheme of things is hardly that important.