Frank's cousin

Uhm... certainly there are many who will not come back if lOwe and wilde dont go... or so we are led to believe - but I think the first part of you comment is the real truism... if we start winning fans will return...slowly at first. if we start doing well next season the numbers will swell further, If we get promoted we will sell out again - whoever is in the boardroom as the demand is there for top flight football and a fair number of home wins... Sure it might not be some of those staying away right now because of LOwe and Wilde, but it will be others. The appetite for football currently is at an all time low because of several factors 1) lack of wins and a crap team, 2) The politics and 3) the economic climate. If things were dandy on the pitch and we were pushing for promotion, the money was not so tight, the politics ould be relevent to alot fewer fans so as to become irrelevent.

Looks a fair enough comment really. The demands of fans for knowledge does not somehow circumnavigate the due legal process and to think it should is naive and plain stupid.

Cant believe the over reaction to be honest.

Dont agree with doing this publically, but there are some truths in what he says - and I am not sure it warrants the kind of reaction from some... Hes tha manager of theclub and he sees fans protesteing when he wants them supporting. Sure we are playing crap under him and these are hollow words if we dont get points, but its hardly 'nasty' or insulting... seriously, I am not sure why anyone should be offended by it to be honest...

Alpine... you have missed the point completely, if you cant see that despite mine and Stanleys and some of the others guys opposing views, verbal spats, jousts and plain arguing, the point I was making WAS ABOUT RESPECT. RESPECT for the passion and the emotional turmoil etc. THey are not displaying apathy, apathy would be suimply not even bothering to comment, because it means nothing. The fact that these guys and even you spend far to much time arguing your corner, and annoying me ;-) deserves respect, but shows you guys aint apathetic, just hurtin' bad.

Sorry dont believe you. Because you want them out so bad you are prepared to say this, but I think deep down, what these guys do, stay, go, whatever, cant erode what you feel for the club completely... it just cant.

FWIW, I dont actually believe any of you - the very fact that you post on here with passion and sometimes venom, shows that none of you are apathetic towards our plight, but just like all fans on all sides confused and frustrated that we have no idea how all this will pan out and its difficult or almost impossible to feel anything but worry and concern... the best way to deal with this is to try and and pretend its not that important, that you dont really care, which is the total opposite, of how you really feel.... (thats a compliment by the way - just because I hardly ever agree with any of you, does not mean I cant recognise the passion) The thing that makes fotball suppporting so emotionally important is the way in which the good and bad can be so cruel one minute and so full of hop the next, only for this to be dashed agin in a second... be honset a win on Saturday and how many of you will be thinking its possible to stay up - even if not willing to hope too much or admit it for fear of the next defeat... its the nature of true fans that it seems easier to try and not care, but I bet it still keeps you all awake at times.

Think the problem for most is that we simply dont know what the the effects would be, apart frm it not being pleasent - could it get any worse than where we are right now? yup, could it be better by providing an opportunity for someone new? yup, but we simply dont know which way it would work out, and there is so much speculation form those 'ITK' or some pretending to know exactly what will happen that it just makes the whoe thing confusing. FWIW, I cant believe it will be good. The financial implications, certain relegation and possible new owners if we are to survive who may not have a brass fathing to rub together will mean uncertainty at best, and a proplonged period of misery at worst - but like I said I have no more idea than the club mascot on this...

Cant do the insert quote thing so here goes: 1. If what has been said is a true account of the events, Lowe is inded a tw*t for coming out with the 9 point plan to open the meeting - bound to antagonise - but given the very public criticism pre AGM, (much of it justified for sure) he proberly misguidedly felt it would be some kind of defence. 2. You have misinterpreted my this - I know its only shareholders but my comment was in response to your point that: 'Secondly, you're obviously struggling with the concept of what goes on at AGM's and how for many shareholders/supporters it's the only time they get to question the board on their performance in recent months and their plans going forward.' where you mention supporters - its not clear in your comment that you mean shareholders who ARE fans, its ambiguous - it could be assumed YOU did not get it, thats all. I have not indicated football should not be discussed but adults and all that should be able to do this without resorting to this sort of crap... 3. Not sure why you insist on an obvious link being on a seperate thread - if that applies here surely it should aply to all threads - in which case why do the likes of alpine et al, go on about only presenting one side as if its wrong on other threads - seems that these unofficial 'rules' change depending on what colour pants you are wearing ;-) 4. Indeed, and dont you just love this kind of patronizing comment

It certainly does and I agree That is not the sort of behaviour of public slangings Lowe should be involved in.... but it alos shows how fickle we ALL are really, me included, because at the time, I would say the vast majority of fans would have thought it a good dig at Spurs for the poaching of our manager with only 7 games to go or so....

If they enter williningly into compromise agreements then an NDA is usually standard ...not just to protect the employers, but to prevent both parties having to drag the whole mire through various courts and media.... that is really fair enough - If they believe they have a stronger case or a real case for constructive dismissal or such like they can use the usual legal routes and thus will not be subject to an NDA, its their choice based on the factual circumstances so to be honest its really a non story at this time - a personal matter until they decide what to to based on any legal advice they receive

I agree its wrong to take this in isolation and Lowe is EQUALLY guilty of repeating the errors made by Wilde at that time.... so you are right in pointing this out.. however UP on the Lowe's biggest mistake thread has told me off for bringing up CRouch in a LOwe thread, so I must apologise for complying with UPs posting rules and therfore not presenting both sides of the argument.... ;-)

Up again why the need to preface the points you are trying to make with another cheap shot.... anyway regardless of that in response. 1. You wil note in a previous post how I state quite clearly that anything anyone else did at the AGM was NO excuse for any bad behaviour on Lowe's part... but if debating that behaviour surely its only right to look at what might have provoked it? Its clear from the various descriptions they were all as bad as each other - I cant see anything wrong with making that point on this thread. 2. I know full well the purpose of the AGM, and fully appreciate that its an integral part of Shareholder board interaction - sorry but its purpose s NOT really for fans who are not shareholders, thats what the fan forums are for. - but this interaction needs to be conducted with civility surely if there are to be positive and constructive outcomes. If Lowe uses it as PR then that is very wrong, because it will become public and as such the fact that it then turned into a farce is a sad reflection on all parties - again I am not sure you deel that its wrong to encourage this thread to focus on both sides - they are linked afterall ??????

Is someone likely to come in last minute and play a blinder... In the Annual report thy talk about 'going concern' and that if things do get worse they will call on additional 'parties' who maybe able to reslve this?

Hey that was actually very funny Alps... and I needed a laugh after reading this thread...if true what Duncs is saying it sadly makes very depressing reading.

Good call... Crouch as Capt (Dont tell em you name Pke!) Mainearing? Lawrie as the oldest one, cant remeber the name, who woulde Pike, seargent Wilson?

I have my moments1 ;-)

Would agree with that....

Not cool I know but that Snakes and Arrows tour was just brilliant - did you see them on the R30? Must be blokes of a certain age....

Seems to be splitting into two camps the Yes no no nos and the Yes no yes nos

Worth visiting every few months to see what the new manager looks like...

I agree to some extent, but even I who am not a fan of Crouch would not expect him to do this. We do tend to see these guys as some sort of limitless pit of cash because they have more than we can dream off, but his money is his money, its there for the important things in his life, his children, grandchildren and the like, and his own retirement - far more important than ****ing it up against the wall on a football clubs especially as at present the 2 mil he sunk into shares is worth feck all. And I dont think it would be even wise to provide it as a loan - interest or not... simply too risky if you ask me. So not throwing good money after bad is actually one of the wisest decision he could make - unless he can afford to lose all that is ;-)

Either that or he enjoys the wind up... trouble is, the more the extreme views on both sides become polarized, the more flak you get when one criticises one side despite not supporting the other - 'wet fence sitters' - in some folks eyes, but i just think there is feck all to choose between them anymore. I supported Lowe for a long time, so thats prabably why I am seen that way (although if truth be told i supported what was being done, not the man himself - although I concede that there comes a time when the two are the same thing), but it is so very frustrating that if I dare to suggest any merit whatsoever in anything coming from the LOwe side either historcally or recently, or criticise anything from the camp Crouch, you can rely on Alps to come out both guns ablazing with a double barralled Lowe Luvvie shot. ;-) All good fun though! I can go off on one too, and sure part of it is enjoying the verbal sparring, afterall what is the point of being on here if it does not have some entertainment value?

but its the sychonphantic stuff towards fans that gives him that role, Lowe the bumbling idiot, Wilde clueless one, and Wotte the willing stooge...

I think the issue would be that whats' in it for Crouch? - He could for that amount of cash buy 50% of the club - but does he have the cash to make a bid for all shares? and would he want to given the problems financially? So why just give it to the club unilaterally? Lowe/wilde would still control perhaps 40% of the votes so could still scupper any major plans from te outside - so again nothing in it for Crouch - who amongst us would donate 2 mil if we had it simply to see no real change - because unless we get cash, its going to be a very long and drawn out rebuilding process...