Frank's cousin

Blinkin' flip. Alps, what have you been drinking? 3 pints of 'ole reasonable' at 8.5% ABV? ;-) Or some of that Austrian Monk home brew? TBF, thats all and anyone else from the the fence sitting side can ask, a willingness to see possitives when some actually exist - no problem with doom and gloom if it is really doom and gloom, but teh last few results do give us a chance. The question is can we seize it? Also what will Lowe do next? Or what will he be blamed for next? I suspect and I herewith maketh a prediction and use my Cyrstal Ball - that come the summer we see departures of some of the very players now seen as our potential saviour and we will go through teh same round of arguments about wether this is necessary due to finances or just Lowe being a nutc.... ;-)

Sorry bobby sjust saw this so forgive my post ion teh Germany - Austria/draw thingy.... ;-(

Its obvious - Lowe WANTED us to fail - must be really disappointed we won three on the bounce if you ask me...... ;-)

4 wins a nd a draw (50 points) will that be enough?

Think the ideal is - obviously us already safe... but imagine, if forest are safe we need the win and by doing so it sends Derby down... could get interesting! ;-)

Its conceivable that this situation might arrise where we both simply need a draw to guarrantee wee stay up - which is then bound to happen ;-) Hypothetically speaking, ifr that were the case, how would you feel about this? Given the way we go on and on about the Germany -Austria stitich up in WC 82?

Thats fair enough - and ultimately its not about his record of points v Pearson etc (although there will be many stattos using this come what may) but do we stay up or do we go down? I think its going to be even tighter this year because the others are also putting runs together - 5 more wins from 11 games may not even be enough which would have meant 8 in 14 which is playoff form! - We will see - Wotte could still end up with one of the best win ratios of any manager we have had and still see us relegated! What do we say then about him and what we should do next season?

Ironically, as we know there was NOTHING revolutinary about the coaching set up we tried anyway - its been done sucessfully at Ajax and various other clubs - and there was logic in a seemless link between youth and the first team - THAT is the premise we were told about and who cannot see logic in that? Our problem was that due to WHATEVER circumstances and I will happily admit Lowe would have driven this TOO far being convinced the youth could do it (mistakenly), we had no link betwen youth and 1st team because they were all playing in it! There is a strong argument for questioning the decision by the club and Lowe as to why we could afford transfers in such as Schneiderlien, but no afford to keep saga - But without knowing contractual FACTS and DETAILS its pure speculation to try and do the sums to work out which is cheaper.... And again I am sure given that Lowe believed in the approach albeit it necessary he went for it 100% rather than perhaps trying desperately to keep the experience necessary - but again I dont have any factual eveidence on the nature of teh contracts or discussions with the bank. In the audited accounts, it was stated that the overdraft had been reduced from 6mil to 4.5 - now this demonstrated impact of cost cutting may now have been offset by the reduced gate, but its POSSIBLE (Speculation) that the banks have granted us a bit of grace in an attempt to stay up, given the increased CCC TV revenue up to about 3 mil next season..?? So I suspect that yes ideally we would still; have loaned out these players or sold them in Jan, but as thats no longer and option, Wotte has them as an option and thus we are reaping the rewards - I would also hazzard a guess that IF finances had not been restrictive, we may well have seen JP and Wotte here sttill, but working with al the curent squad from day one, not just now...

Rather a lot of twaddle and a tad defensive if you ask me ;-) (although arrogance also springs to mind) You seem to once again be not so much as rewriting history but making it up - either that or you completely for whatever reason have the totally wrong impression from previous posts... Where has anyone historically said they blindly believed in JP? All I have ever said is I believed that there was LOGIC in the initial decison, something born out by the initially promising results -and felt it right to support the team and manager - it failed, we all agreed on that - but there have been plenty ,you included and me included who thought that Wotte would deliver more of the same - I am happy that he has changed direction - and he has proved me wrong on that account, but what I find incredulous is that this is another classic case of inconsistency in forming opinions. When JP was here the crap play and performances was because Lowe was picking the team and it was all Lowe's fault, fair enough if true, but now Wotte is doing OK so far, where are the accusations of Lowe picking the team ? Or interfering or whatever else ****** some have written? And you certainly contributed to that with 'insider' knowledge. You claim we wasted 28 games - but as I said previously (and to which you decided not to respond to) untiol we know the TRUTH about the finacial situations its impossible to make such a statement - its just speculation to assume we could have had the same players here now for the past 28 games.... Sure as I stated Lowe would have taken the extreme view which was a mistake, the clear out too far, but neither do I believe we could have used everyone for teh whole season on the particular contracts without sending some out on loan etc.. I suspect the actual truth is somewhere in between, although I am sure you have 'evidence' from your contacts, who naturally dont ahve any axe to grind and are therefore completely impartial' that thats not the case....... Oh and you are too harsh on yourself, from your post its a FACT, you are inded a true visonary as everything you say comes true. I vote UP for Chairman! ;-)

If you say so UP ;-) just glad that with such results we have the opportunity to clash over something so trivial and as a result of success rather than failure and I would suggest you would drink to that! As many have said, there is still alot of work to be done, given the results around us, but if we win 4 or 5 more and still go down, then it cant be down to Wotte.

Given the amount of mileage UP and others gained from even remotely suggesting there might have been some logc in the JP/Wotte thing, its understandable that there might be a little enjoyment in seeng the guy succeed over and above the usual saints wins... ;-) but TBF, you are right, its a perfect opportunity to encourage the naysayers back to the ground, to get behind teh lads, swell the gate and the coffers and cheer us on to survial - I think with the exception of Stanley, everyone else wants that at the very least - the fall out ca come close season, but IF we survive, i suggest we might actually have something to build on... oh and offer Euell a new contract now!

Think its a little unfair to compare the two - Pearson did the job with his set of circumstances.... Wotte is doing surprizingly well with his, but with the others around us also doing well, there is still a long way to go. I was stunned that we went for Wotte after JP, because like many i a) did not really have a clue why he was here given JP, and b) felt it would be more of the same. BUt was always at least willing to give him a chance even as against the grain of logic it was. I am just GLAD there is at this moment a small slice of humble pie to be eaten by some...and yes UP included... but not because i enjoy that thought (OK well maybe just a tad), but simply because we have won 3 on the bounce and now stand a realistic chance of avoiding the drop. I would suggest that those eating humble pie right now, probably dont mind the taste too much as naturally Saints success comes before our egos... ;-)

Steady SOG... ;-)

Some are long sure enough, but I just go with the flow... if too long for you, no need to read wont be offended ;-)

Missed the point docker, its about having pride DESPITE which nutter is in the boardroom and NOT letting them dilute that. I am just as P!ssed off about reults as everyone else, but I dont feel embarrassed that we have such an inconsistent bloke in the boardroom, nor that he has tried 'unusual' approached which have failed - its bizzare for sure, but it does not effect how I feel about the club.

I agree, and the wonders of the retrospectoscope clearly show that given JPs background him looking after the youth and Reserves would have seemed a more logical throw of the dice...

I diont think anyone will really believe 'perhaps Lowe is not that wrong' because even if Wotte does a Pearson, there is still the question mark over why JP and not Wotte from the outset?

I am waiting for the 'Kings of Leon Crouch' to be the latest soundbite in the propoganda war! ;-) ;-)

Was a classic, even if he scuffed the final shot!

Nah, come on Snowy, 'believe' - its time for these old cliches to return to our vocab! ;-)

I hope Lowe is smarting, I hope also that he recognises WHAT has contributed to the ever so slight upturn in our fortunes - I have to hope... I do also think he is pragmatic. I hope he will see that whatever he thinks of the youth only approach, its is impossible to get this to work in a division so dominted by guile and experience over pure football. We have to hope and be optimistic.

LOL - made me spill my coffee but a lot of truth in that I think.

I think its the beauty of being a fan... and the hardest part, how one little victory makes us want to believe, and with every defeat we are doomed. That rollercoaster is what makes this game so addictive, painful and joyous. I think the last two games have not meant we are safe, but they have given us hope... but to paraphase John Clease ' we can live with the depression, but its the hope thats a killer'

And I dont hate you Alpine, I even respect the fact that you have your opinions and are committed to them. I just cant fathom out why you dont want to accept that I can be critical of Lowe, want him replaced, but not be so full of hatred for him or in some cases can understand why and what he is up to...even if I dont agree with it... for me thats not a difficult position to justify. Apologies for the rude rant, we all lose it now and again and its Monday morning.... PS. I actually think a conversation with you and a few beers would be quite fun - we might not agree, but the best debate and conversations over a beer are usually with folk who you dont agree with!

Thing is we have had so much rumour and speculation about the finances, the odd nod from and 'insider' etc, that to work out the true picture without actually having access to the accounts and the contracts with the lenders makes it really just speculation as to whether the forced changes implemented by Lowe were as necessary as his spin would have us suggest, or whether the savings made to date have given us the opportunity to recall the older pros, I dont know. Even if the club issues a financial statement, it would be spun to support the deciosns as we know Lowe would never publically admit to and error of judgement if that were the case. Crouch will spin it the other way and that is to be expected... but the facts remain illusive. As is usual with Lowe, its most likely he went to the extreme eg yes we needed to off load to demonstrate savings, but perhaps not as much as we did. The savings now having been demonstrated, and the fact it did not work, now causing a softening of that position, coupled with no one coming in for those players in the transfer window? Surely, without more factual info its difficult to draw conclusions and the hope must be that for whatever reason, we are now in a position where we at least have a small chance of avoiding the drop, if Wotte can continue to get the best from the older pros supporting the more talented kids. Here's hoping.