Frank's cousin

Always surprises me that there seems to be so much schadenfreude associated with bad news over some players... Odd considering they our ours, even if what he has done is so plainly wrong, not quite sure some of you should be enjoying it so much... Can only assume it's because he was a Cortese signing and it's another convenient stick to begat him with... Just wondering whether all this pious ****** on here would be any different had he scored 13 goals in his 13 starts....

Matt fully entitled to his opinion. But as others have pointed out if giving his opinion in public under the guise of an informed pundit, his comments should be scrutinised as such and not blindly accepted because of his hero status amongst the fans. what he says is hard to argue with, the autocratic nature may well have pushed a few folk off.... BUT he completely neglects to mention any of the positives that have been achieved under NC 's leadership irrespective of the methods used... And for that reason Matts comments carry no authority or value beyond his biased opinion.

This. It's about a change of philosophy driven by aspiration. Aspiration based on what is possible, not restricted by what is probable. Sport should never be about accepting your place in the pecking order no matter what... A place only dictated by a lack of imagination... NC represented that shift in mindset... In theory something most fans had been crying out for since Lowe refused to sign Saha and Malbranque.... And push on from 8th place... Funny how quickly some forget and change tack, depending on what the current popular consensus is to avoid the forum bully boys.... Drive, ambition, aspirational goals, whatever you call them are surely what differentiates a club from the bland. An acceptance that just being in the prem is good enough (forget Dalek's inexplicable trolling that continues to be tolerated by the mods) seems fine for some... Fair enough, we each have our own expectations/what we want fro being a fan... But for me that is no longer enough. Do not mistake this for walking away unless we achieve success.... It's not what what we achieve, but how seriously we TRY. All I am hoping for is that drive and aspiration remains as strong and does not get lost amongst the desire to be a nice community club with stability at its core.... Therefore it's less about what we have gained in KL, and more about what we have potentially lost in NC.

c which I stated in my previous post... Point is the letter means nothing.... It's standard stuff, nice, sure, but we simply dot know whether it will be better worse or a continuation.... And gut feel is that even if she decides to hold on, it will be more about nice stability than challenging expectations... Many I guess will be happy with that... Which I feel is a shame.

Yep... Yet this is considered 'negative'.... Funny how for some you just need to 'communicate' with fans and it's enough ... Without really considering what the communication contains or lacks. This is not some attack or negativity towards KL. I hope and wish she does a great jib. But she is perfectly entitled to sell and do as she pleases with her property. Only thing is, what she does may not please me. I won't hate her for it, it's is ONLY football after all and there are far more important hints in life... But there is nothing in that letter to suggest she wants to be he long term and challenge the established order... And that to me was what NC brought in spades. I hope I am wrong, but sadly suspect I and a few others may be right on this.

Must admit, I find the response to the letter on here quite funny, but not unexpected... We have the usual folks who hated NC now all happy flappy, we have the revisionist few, who have turned round from being all happy to now pointing out how much better it will be, and we have the cynics who raise some valid points shot down as we enter this new 'era of optimism' Jeez, fickle is not the word.... The reality is that we have NO IDEA whether what will come will be better or worse . And what's more, your take on whether it's better or worse will depend on what makes you happy about a club in the first place. For me it's simple. I want us to do all we can to win games... And to do that with the ultimate aim of winning things, not being satisfied by any mid table placing, knowing our place in the pecking order. Irrespective of whether it will ever happen, seeing the club take such aims and aspiration seriously is what is exciting and differentiated us from the bland.... It's fricken sad that so many football fans now feel that survival in the prem is a decent aspiration... Under NC he gave the impression that this was clear aim, to disregard glass ceilings and challenge. Sure probability was still low, but we focused not on what was probable, but on what was possible, and that to me is all I ask for. If KL is able to galvanize the club in the same way, then I will be very happy. I am also willing to accept compromise. I accept that no one is ever perfect, so if the pursuit of excellence and drive needed to delivery the progress I want to see, comes at the expense of being nice and fan friendly, so be it. If KL can do both she will be legendary and I generally hope she can, BUT, I would not be happy becoming a 'nice' club with fan friendly platitudes all over the place as we once again become the club the footballing world expect us to be, a good club, a decent mid table prem side... Accepting mediocre... No matter how many fans are consulted about every decision, or whether we don't pay parking fees and play in stripes again - means feck all if we are content to accept we will never compete... We also need to be cautious that the start meant does leave plenty of room for sale of the clubs and players in the summer. So yes I am glad she has taken the time to put her name to this. yes I am supportive of the general message, yes I really hope she can delivery the very best times for the club, better than anything before, yes I hope we can in future say that NC did his part in dragging us up from the 3rd tier when we needed that bullishness, and KL took us to the next level.... But deep down, I suspect 'stability' is there To encourage a sale.... And even if not, I will not be happy with just 'stability' - I want progress,, I want desire to succeed, I want managed risk taking and challenging expectations. KL has the opportunity to do just that! and I hope she takes it's and delivers. I suspect NC will wherever he ends up and just hope we don't end up looking back thinking what if.... Good luck Katharina.

gee...thanks ;-) It is a strange concept - the 'uber/traditional fans' say that love for your club is forever and unconditional - yet in reality they place so many conditions on that love - from the way its run, by whom, how its owned, how it runs it business, demands to show ambition, but not too much ambition in case someone thinks its silly...blah blah blah... as we have seen in recent days and posts, its hardly 'unconditional...' What some forget is that when I say I admire NC - its for the result and progress over the last 5 years. I do not know him as a person, nor have I seen anything that shocks me with respect to the way a businessman would behave in the situations made public - so I cant comment on his character, nor that of Ms Liebherr, yet plenty on here seem happy to do so for whatever purpose... My point, as you highlight above, is that my expectations are a) the club does everything it can to TRY and win football matches.... I could add a shed load of additional 'conditions' to that and end up with a long ... long list... against which I could then score the club on how well they are achieving each of these... and how badly they are doing in some areas.... yet in doing so, I would probably enjoy being a fan a lot less...

Indeed. Whether it's right or wrong is another matter, but a club in this age does not give a flying folk about individual customers/fans. It does not negs to, as 'loyalty' bares no impact on revenue. I would hazard a guess that the number of supporters who have had a continuous ST for more than 5 years is small, 10 years smaller, and 20 tiny... All a business needs to do to grow, is ensure it gains More New customers than it loses old... And thus if the club can shift its demographic to higher income/more disposable income groups at the expense of loyal but only occasional attendees, it will do.... Its all all very well going on about 'heart of the community' rhetoric of days gone by, but those are the last battlecries of the lower league also rans... Top flight football is big business, and that will NOT change. No amount of nostalgic rhetoric will make a blind bit of difference - and that is not being cynical, it's being realistic. Under those circumstances, if you still chose to support and want your club to be the best it can, compete and not settle for mid table mediocrity year in year out (sadly many fans seem to think this is ok, when in sport it's about winning), then the drivers need to be unburdened by the establishment - which echoes the same 'know your place' rubbish. Once you you get over the slightly selfish and somewhat odd need for the club to constantly love you back, it's actually a lot easier to enjoy the progress and approach we have taken- if you are always looking for something that is wrong, you will find it - but it won't make you enjoy being a fan any more.

Whilst I believe there is an element of truth in that you loose some under the negative circumstances you describe, I think you over estimate the size of that 'core' who care - those mainly stuck in the past who have never embraced any of the modern change in football. It may well be true for lower league small clubs, who only get 1850 on a dry day - a core - but for clubs the size of saints, anything lost by negative perceptions of the club as you describe, will be more than replaced by others who are attracted to success it achieves. 'Selling out' it may be, but it's the reality of the modern game- of the 32k at a match, less than 500 are likely to stop going if the club treats a local supplier badly... But I bet we get an extra 5000 if we qualified for the CL at least... also, we have had lots of 'stories' about the way NC has done this and that. And ****ed of everyone...etc... But we have not had any of this substantiated. Even with the two court cases , we speculate that the club was unjustified based on settling out of court, but that is not always the case in these cases. In effect it's naive to assume the blame always lies with the club.... And to accept the stories as the whole truth when we only hear one side. i doubt NC is the 'nicest' of blokes in business. But you do not need to be nice to succeed. You do not need to run the club in a way that keeps all historic customers happy either- you run it in a way that ensures you wil attract more new customers to replace the ones you lose. When some f you go on about the fact that success and nice/ right do not need to be mutually exclusive you are right - they don't, but find me that person - it's naive to think they are common, and it also implies that you expect folk to be perfect... Naive again. NC was far from perfect, but he was doing the things right that mattered to progress at the expense of some of the issues that impact some fans... ...and most of those he pushed off we're never going to be supportive anyway for historical and personal agendas. We would all love a bit more mother Teresa x Gandhi in our chairpersons - but ain't going to happen. Where board members have been 'nice' they have failed ultimately failed us, as they had not the power or control.

I'll bite though I should know better - your 'lying journo gag is pretty stale by now mind' - One player making a statement that seems nicely PR'd and a pretty obvious one at at is hardly a huge amount of evidence. The only real test of the real influence of NC over the players and progress we have made will be to see what happens next... How many leave and whether we stagnate or regress... Only I am sure the nay Sayers of doom will suggest this would have happened anyway, even if nasty Nic had stayed.... So not much point in having this as any topic for debate

Made up paper tosh by lazy journos ;-) who knows what the future holds... Fun to be had on yacht watch mind

Very funny - you should be on the stage! It just seems very odd that grown men let hero worship cloud their judgement and let common sense go out of the window. Taking sides like a playground spat, and trying to get others to join their side.... Nothing will ever detract from Matt's skill and what he gave to the club - but that does not make him infallable - same as NC has his faults - what is so 'pathetic' about that logic, or are you just so far up someone's backside that you fail to grasp this simple concept? NC acted stupidly with all the Matt and Franny spats, and so did Matt and Franny with their very public retorts - end of. None of them acted very grown up - big deal, it happens, but neither deserves to be hung out to dry because of it - just suggests that your continued jibes and attacks on NC are motivated by some other agenda... just come clean and be honest about it... or you just look like a daft tw at.

And there in lies the problem... many quite rightly feel that because of the legend status, Le Tiss can do no wrong and should be cut some slack... must be Cortese etc. For others NC has done so much, and it was Le Tiss in the papers etc so Le Tiss should keep stum etc... Reality... its never black and white, despite what some on here seem to be saying and nailing their colours to one particular mast. THEY have BOTH done great things and BOTH done some crappy things - they are afterall BOTH human and I Like BOTH of them and dont expect EITHER of them to be perfect, no one is - so there is NO NEED to take feckin sides - those determined to TAKE sides and publically do so, seem hell bent on causing more rifts within the fan base - and its not gone unoticed that many of those posters who dissappeared because they simply had nothing to say when all was going wel on the pitch these last years, are sticking their heads above the pulpit once again now their nemesis has walked... pretty pathetic really

Clasic case of simpleton fans.... not recogising you can be be fecked of NC has gone, yet potentially understand the reasons (IF ANY ONE ACTUALLY KNEW THE TRUTH) - the histrionics on here and in teh press, the personal insults just make our fans look like a bunch of idiots....sad but true

Jeez - see the usual suspects have returened to bash one out gleefully over NC departure... There are many advantages to having more folk on the board, there are many nice advantages to a lovely harmonious democratic board... wonderful, idealistic and tinged with a nostalgic air of community based clubs with the fans the very soul - and all that romantic rhetoric. BUT there are also disadvantages - big ones, with factions, splits, disharmoy slpiting the fan based etc... all of which is is more recently embedded in our memories than the 'wonderful' harmony that some on this thread seem to naivly expect. We have progressed at a rapid pace these last few years not just because of money - there are many clubs in the CCC who have money, spent more than us and still cant get out - or if they do, go back down... our rapid progress was down to a the drive and shear bloody mindedness of NC and of convincing many to believe we can acheive more than the traditional old guard establishment think is possible in the modern era. What happens next? Accountabilty? I suspect that NC's view is that in order to achieve what he set out to he needs that full authority - and that Marcus may have given/promised him that - if the conditions of his employment are forced to cahnge, then he has the right to resign as he believed his position becomes untenable. Yes it woudl be great if they could have worked something out and worked together - but success and rapid growth is never built on compromise and I suspect NC knows this. Are those now happy he is gone, ready for the challenge to raise 150mil from fans to finally relaise their dreams? or are they like the rest of us concerned about what we might end up with following any future sale - leaverged buy outs... debt burdens and 'fan' owners without a clue repeating mistakes of the past....

Aaahhrrrre Noooooooo.... backwards step... Anyway dont know whats happening yet so lets wait and see ;-)

... Oh well.. personally, dont think we are in any position to comment really given all anyone is able to do is speculate. Just looking at things - It was very interesting to note Cortese voted against the Prem policy change preventing sugar daddy type investment last year... which for me was more telling than anything else as it implies he is keen to to ensure the door remains open for such investment in future. I dont believe the Liebherrs want to retain ownership indefinitely - and maybe there was an agreement to sell to NC and his consortium at a price - only for our value to have gone up with the relatively rapid success and importantly the increase in value of several of the player assets - that would be a reasonable guess - but a guess is all it is. Find it quite sad that the likes of Glasgow still cant resist the WUM and **** take over something that could have quite serious consequences for the club - strikes me as the kind of arsehole who would get his **** out at a funeral... we have to wait and see - Cortese wants to us progress - but we cant without authorization or cash investment - without that control and money NC has his hands tied... so can understand his frustration as there is no point in staying if he cant deliver. How this pans out, we shall see.

Totally agree. The reality is though that unless we do within a reasonable timeframe start to qualify for Europe the very best will go... Sad but true. The only hope is that we have enough clout, and strong enough pull to keep me here, until they reach their FULL potential, so we are selling at top whack and not at some stupid Bale like discount. That is the difference I hope to see in NC. We can't stop players going, but we can create an environment that see us benefit from them before they go and at a level that realizes their true value.

Behave .... 'Papering over the cracks..' Pathetic. We are a decent top 10 side. Nothing more as we all know we are a work in progress as the youngsters get the experience and improve.... On a form day we can beat anyone, but do not have the consistency yet to be mounting any challenge to to top 6... So what cracks are we papering over? we have played a lot better in the last 10 games and got nothing- that is football- so this helps even out what we deserve. Nothin more. But you are you ilk, with the constant negative drivel and WUM mentality need to accept that your constant whining and fake misery, won't take the shine off it for the real down to earth fans who simply enjoy Supporting our side through all ups and downs... Seriously, you were not funny before and are not now... Buts if it helps you crack one off to see a few folk annoyed by your inane shields, no worries. Guess you need to get your fun somehow....

Having used various links from Wiziwig.tv, for various games, and running various clean up scans afterwards, they all seem pretty nasty in terms of malware and other Trojans.... To the point where one set of malware killed my work laptop! anyone genuinely know of any of the streaming sites that are safer? thanks

Truth is none of us have any idea as to whether the Liebherrs May or may not wish to inject additional funds into SFC. We all speculate that they won't, and have no interest, but if NC has definitely no access to funds such as this, why did he state after voting AGAINST the recent decision to prevent 'sugar daddy' type investment being used to augment the playing squad, that we had voted against because; a) it would be unfair on clubs joining the Prem, or only recently squiring a sugar daddy, not to be able to do what others have done before and thus have the advantage b) many of the larger clubs have sugar daddy linked direct to club 'sponsors' so money comes in via the sponsorship route There would seem little point in voting against that, if we never had any intention or access to funds used in this way?

Dont think he is disagreeing that a good cup run is a great thing. And certainly it has far more allure than going out today and finishing 10th. But surely you can see, that from the club's perspective, if they are serious about making real progress, that means finishing as high in the league as possible... Because that potentially suggests we could make another step next season... Encouraging potential signings and keeping our best talent for at least another season? For clear progress to be demonstrated, even a run to the final would be no use if we ended up finishing back down in 14th... For the fans a no brainer, but for the development and progress of the club, the higher league position is priority. in an ideal world, no choice is necessary as we would have enough strength in depth to be competitive in the cup, without any compromise on the side available for the league, but we don't have that luxury. So if you were offering a guarantee of 7th now, or a cup final + finishing 10 th, I would have say 7th... Winning the thing is another matter;-) For fans a trophy like that would always come first, but club needs to look to the longer term, so will take the stance that league placing first. A final but 13/14th would not be seen as any progress by NC - and many of the players after the 'excitement' of a final has worn off.

Fair point CB. No it's not exciting, and obviously looking forward to a cup final would be amazing. No argument from me. And with the FA cup first few rounds mean we don't get any fixture congestion etc, so would like those us put out a side that goes to win these games. But, whilst we are still in with a chance of finishing higher... And it's not impossible if we get our main 11 back up and firing( we have played Man U, Arsenal, Everton, Newcastle, Liverpool away etc) then an argument can be made for at least focussing on league... As it's clear our squad depth is not strong enough. I don't think anyone underestimates the value of the cup and the excitement of winning the thing, but it's a case of recognizing that we simply don't have the strength in depth to give all comps the same focus.... Yet. So a decision has to be made... We might not agree, but ultimately I think the club believe that league focus and position should be the current priority - not just in financial terms, but in attracting players in the summer and demonstrating progress to younger stars who we want to keep. If we have a good second half season, it's still possible to get back to 6th or so, and that would be amazing progress. Very very difficult for sure, but not impossible.

Not sure the handball or not is the issue. Not sure it matters who on this thread has all the knowledge of what was said either. It's certainly not about manning up. If it was just a bit of banter, I am sure Adam would not have made a big deal over it. The issue is about credibility. If the Ref, any ref, says something that could be interpreted in such a way, that players have grounds to suspect his attitude, opinion might be influencing his decision making, then there is a case to answer. Players and fans need to at least feel that all decisions are made in good faith. - even those made by crap refs who fail to spot something, or make a wrong decision based on their interpretation of the rules. If we can at least feel confident that it was a genuine mistake, we at least know the ref was just crap, not in any way biased. But if the ref is too pally with some players, over familiar or says things that are inappropriate, and by that I don't mean, normal human conversation, but makes comments to individuals that lead to suspicion of what else they might be thinking, then that is wrong.... Does not matter whether it's a personal 'insult' or not, refs should be above such things, if only to ensure they remain credible. Ignore what the papers say, as these are the same papers who were happy to have a go at him, over the 'monkey' comment... Yet seem now to have changed tack.... Ficle at best.

If you don't get it, just shows you haven't got a clue about what being a fan is really about, whichever side you actually support. Then again you make that clear with every post you make. ...and you also demonstrated how thick you are by misinterpreting what was a very simple concept. It's not about us 'having a ball' or not. The point is that it's far better as a fan to have leadership that wants to challenge the established view of the clubs limitations, than one happy with year in survival.... But I was obviously doing you too great a survive as I thought the point would be easy for clueless f*ckwits to understand.