Frank's cousin

In general I dont disagree with these principles, but IMHO it all depends on whether we continue to develop and improve under such a model or whether we stagnates and become one of those 9-14th perrenials. I appreciate that for some that is enough - as they accept that in all probability without substantial underwritten investment, competing beyond top 8 is an unrealistic expectation anyway.... I can no longer agree with that. Whatever the level of realism or not I am just fed up with the whole concept of accepting mid table as the best we can hope for- some find these 'dreams' and aspirations as naive but what they fail to understand its never about the result. Its about how serious we try. We will see how the new board deliver and it would be wrong to prejudice and be negative before they have had a chance to show the new approaches etc. it's also wrong to base too much on statements - sorry hypo but for someone with a 'pr background' you seem disproportionately naive if you see that as anything other than a eel crafted standard - we should wait national we see actions. with respect to selling players - well depends , yes all clubs sell best talent, BUT it's about the timing. If a talent like Luke goes after 1 season at 18 because we think that is acceptable then we will never be more than that stagnating club - him going at 22-23 after 2 or 3 years that we have benefitted from is fair enough. To me what happens in the summer with Luke and Adam will say a lot about what we can expect in terms of future aspiration - that would have been the same under NC by the way, but suspect he may well have played had ball - just hope the new board do as well.

oh stop being so melodramatic, like a bunch of decking kids... Seriously, that side should have own, they played **** and were beaten... End of. And FYI, re the sharpest tool etc... My dads bigger than your... Go back to the play ground and we can compare degrees and postgrad qualifications if you like....

oh oh grow up you big drama queen, stop taking the forum so seriously (as the forum elite like to spout) that side was strong, you know it , I know it. Whether MP though the cup was a priority or not, the side did not perform, they could have done and should have done... They did not. And sorry but you know as well as I do that we have several primadonna WUM/trolls who like nothing better than to present the most negative case possible at every opportunity. If you can't see them, then you are truly a bit daft... And the one who takes this all too seriously. So stop being such a patronizing yet gullible **** and admit for once that that side was more than capable of winning... That has feck all to do with defending MP, just a fact... It was Sunderlands second 11....

seriously can't believe this is still going on. The side put out should have won - they had enough to beat that Sunderland side, but failed to perform, end of. The only possible reason to even bring this up is those that have the agenda/wind up desire to criticise Pochetino. Why not just give you honest opinion on MP and be done with it. If your opinion on MP is swung by that selection, you know feck all about football....

'I'd him for magic beans for Moyes' made me chuckle. ;-) As to Poch, once again GS manages to score and wind a load of folk up... Person annoy I'll just be glad if we hold on to him for the rest of his contract... Many on here have always underestimated the influence 'nasty Nic' has had on this club in pushing for better and convincing the staff to dedicate themselves to it... No disrespect to KL, but I struggle to see how the summer will be anything but depressing... But hey GS and Barry are happy 'MoPo' will go... So everything will be fine....

hahaha you crack me up... Never actually responding to posts, just your sad attempts at put downs to try and force your opinion on folks and belittle theirs... You must be seriously miserable if that floats your boat. So again, if this is all taken Far too seriously and it's just a mong board, something you are at pains to point out at every opportunity, why are you so full of constipated anger... You should be careful, all that straining will give you piles... Maybe that's it?

You know, what is funny/most disturbing about you CB is the way you always seem to totally contradict yourself. On the one hand you appear like Turkish's cousin, laughing at those who take the internet and especially the 'mong board' so seriously.... Yet your posts are so full of anger and resentment... Way more than is necessary if this is all just a laugh... Maybe it's your frustration, in not being competent in understanding some very simple concepts... I see you face strained, red , like a constipated fool, struggling to comprehend. Your only defence is the persistent sarcasm - not only the lowest form of wit, but one that needs to be used sparingly, if it is to be effective... Otherwise as In your case it's loses all it's power to inject thought provoking comment, and becomes bitter, and quite laughable. Your failure to grasp that nobody is pining for the 'Italian suit', that nobody is crying that he is gone, your inability to differentiate between probability and possibility, pragmatism, realism and aspiration...etc, just highlights that you need to go and sit down and calm down, learn to read and comprehend and then offer thoughtful responses whilst respecting opinion... If anyone on here is taking it all too seriously, it's you old boy.

.... Jeez.... Can't believe I need to answer this, or that you even posed the question. Grimsby's top brass should be aspiring to get promoted.... And if eventually they got established in the top division then why not aspire to the top competition?

CB, you know, you really should try and read/ understand what is being said before jumping to such sweeping conclusions - as was made clear in numerous posts, it's not 'demanding success' or crying if it's not achieved...as I suspect you know. There are only a few trophies and plenty of clubs so even great teams miss out... It's all about having a belief that success is possible. Otherwise what is the point of sport? It's no surprise to me that the vast majority Saints fans, most of whom had never known Saints outside the top tier, thoroughly enjoyed the L1 and Latter Championship seasons, because it was about being competitive and in with a shout of winning something. Tell me what is so great if you have to accept no better than 8th at the start of a season? It's not about how realistic that may or not be (probability)... Supporting is NOT about probability, only betting punters give a SHIETE about that, no , supporting is about POSSIBILITY of success. I will always support Saints through whatever, but I can't say I will enjoy it as much if our owners don't inspire, if they seem to accept mediocrity as the best we can achieve and that this filters down to players who leave at the earliest opportunity.... It's not about being an apologist or sycophant when it comes to NC... He had many well documented faults.... But he did one thing that we had not seen in a chairman at Saints during any part if the premiership years... Aspired to be better than 'traditional wisdom said was our place... 'Not IF, but HOW' - whether it would have been realised is not the point ... ' it's not reaching the top that is important, but the attempt'. NC was about the attempt... No matter how naive, how improbable, or unrealistic , it did not matter, what is good, is the aspiration shown to try.

CB, please - why not contribute in a non aggressive/**** take fashion? Fact remains that Cortese stated CL was the ambition... With a possible stadium expansion thrown in. Now we all know both take serious cash, granted. We also know that to date Cortese had delivered on the expected targets, so one could be forgiven for thinking he might continue to deliver... Even though the probability of doing so diminishes the more competitive the league gets? we simply do not know what Marcus' ambitions would have been or how much he would have been prepared to spend to see how far the club could go. All we do know is that in part they wanted to do it through the academy... Not just spend spend spend. I really do believe that had Marcus still been alive, he may well have invested more, as it was clear even in the short time he was with us, that he had the bug... The shear joy on his face and the famous camera pic is something I think we all agree was a great sight to behold - an owner with genuine excitement and pride n the club. would it have been enough to achieve CL football? all depends on how well the youth developed and if they stayed long enough IMHO, combined with a reasonable, yet not ridiculous spend. ... And not matter what you and the other neigh stayers think, it would have been amazing fun to watch us giving it a go! I think you sometimes forget that the excitement and enthusiasm in supporting football always comes from the possibility of success! not how likely it is. Sadly we will never know. But the impact on the club is insignificant compared to the impact his death would have had n his family and close friends. However, NC promised to carry on? WE DO NOT KNOW, if the financial investment that NC planned and implemented was based on agreements between NC and Marcus or not...but suspect they were since they were continued over the last 4 years. Again, It's possible that NC let it all go to his head etc, but as investment in infrastructure seemed equally important as transfer funding, I don't think so... Too rational an approach. No, I think that one of the following or a combination has happened: 1. KL was no longer to fund the club as Marcus intended 2. KL was no longer prepared to fund the club as Marcus intended without having her own folk involved in the decision making process 3. KL wanted more direct decision making authority, and wanted to cut back spending. in all cases, it's not exactly a surprise from a professional perspective that NC felt he could not accept... After all it's about of a kick in the teeth for someone who through his own, often controversial calls, has ensured The value of KLs asset had gone from a 35mil to perhaps as much as 125mil in 4 years... Which is not a bad return... I genuinely think that KL wanted NC to stay... But that NCs pride got in the way... I can't blame either, but will stand by what I said earlier; what was impressive about NC is that if still he, I don't think Shaw would have gone this coming summer... Even with the same desire and same investment, I am to date not convinced we have the same energy, drive and belief in a different future in the key positions at the club right now.... I will be more than happy to eat a shed load of humble pie this time next year if we are even top 10.... Let alone top 6 which I fell would have been possible next season with the continued progress.

Haha, come on CB, can't you Ever just accept the point being made? Where have I mentioned I want her gone, or insulted KL? I have aver speculated that the reasons for the troubles may be a lot simpler than others like to make out... As it suits various agendas to insinuate and make carp up. KL is perfectly entitled to do as she has done, she is also entitled to expect the club to run within its prem revenue means. You have just assumed that because I have been supportive of NC, that I must now be ungrateful of the Liebherrs? How the fleck you work that out is beyond me you numpty. And , I would not say that the 35mil total invested of Marcus's money to dat, is quite the same as KL 'bankrolling us' through the prem.... Otherwise why would we have the BVI loans?

CB, I would not have thou you would also have fallen into that trap. Currently, there is No evidence to suggest that KL has invested a penny more than the 35mil converted to equity in the chap season. That figure includes the Original purchase Marcus made of approx 14 mil, so an addition 21 mil to get us back to the prem... And a club worth maybe 100mi....since then the club have also spent money ... But we have also had INCOME .... From our gates, transfers out (oxo) and TV, especially now. Plus the BvI loan.... So to suggest KL has been bankrolling the club is wrong IMHO. It may turn out that she underwrites any loans or losses, in which case you become correct, but we have no evidence of that from any accounts published to date. with respect to NC leaving, again I suggest it's simpler... I do not think NC was spending or expecting to spend Monet y like it was his own... But that the plans were based on what he and Marcus would have agreed would.have been an appropriate investment.... I believe the disagreement may be more that KL was not prepared to continue with that. Again I hope I am wrong and it was just a boardroom thing, but that tells it's own story. If NC had objections to certain folks joining the board, he would gave gad his reasons.... Personally, I would have liked to hear them, before slagging him off as just another egomaniac.... He delivered what he said he would ahead of schedule do deserved that at least.... Whatever he did to Frannies carpet, or the by installing those parking meters.

Think that is a bit disingenuous given the reported strength of his friendship with Marcus. A more reasonable explanation is that his plans included spending money that Marcus had agreed to on Prem return, that perhaps his daughter was not in agreement with - which is her right to do so. I don't think his strategy was innovative or new - but the difference was he actually seemed to believe it was possibe and his drive and enthusiasm was what was infectious... As to whether it amounted to any more than Lowe, well, we will never know now... Which is a shame in my opinion.

I am not going to argue CB, as this is less about right and wrong, but more about philosophy. You can't win with kids... But if they are quality, develop and mature.... And stay then maybe we can achieve something beyond conventional expectation. Is that really so difficult to appreciate, or even consider to be a decent ideal? The key us creating an environment in which they are convinced to stay a few years ... Football HAS changed in the last 25 years and as a result too many have lost that driver of what makes fans tick... The belief in something better, that success is only a matter of time... Something that the modern game with all it's cash has strived to knock out of us. Cortese had many faults from a fans perspective... But he did try to convince that we should focus on what was possible... Not dwell and be dictated to by what was probable... To me at is a great attitude, no matter what conventional wisdom dictates. Football is NOT my life. It's a part of it, but not the most important. So what does it matter to anyone else if the escapism from the day job etc includes aspirations and dreams of success beyond established views? 'Nasty Nic,' may not have brought that, we will now never know, but it was nice to go along with his ideals - ' ask not if, but how' - irrespective of whether you liked the guy or thought he was a complete fruitcake... It's not a bad mantra for life that.

Sorry this is a misconception. NC did not have any 'dreams'. He was about challenging preconceptions, glass ceilings and 'established' views like this that seem to have become folklore- that without money nothing is possible. His desire was NOT to spend bucket loads of KLs cash as some like to believe, but to ask the question of how progress might be possible without doing so - its the aspiration - that what is POSSIBLE is more important than the pessimistic what is 'PROBABLE' - as the communications from the club said, its not 'IF' we can win, but 'HOW'? Too many fans seem to have become 'institutionalised' by the prem mantra that there is only one way to achieving success - I simply liked the fact that NC did not seem to care about the difficulty or low probabilty, but how could we make it possible. As unliklely as it may be (which is continually pointed out by many on here) youth can be an answer - look at what we have achieved so far with many youngsters - trick now is to keep them for a while longer - so we benefit from our investment in their development, not just in Monetary terms, but in playing terms as well... and that is all about quality of environment we create and whether the leadership can convince players and their agents of the sriousness of our ambitions...

That has always been my worry. Plenty on here have jumped on the 'happy NC is gone' band wagon, but the fact remains that had he stayed it would have been the best indication that the support was there to continue the progress. The fact he has gone means no agreement on that IMHO... So suspect sales...but it's all ok as we are Not meant to think about anything better than 9th... Not allowed, best we can ever do .... Blah blah.... And Franny can put carpet back I his bathroom so all is OK. I just hope that for those who need to feel the love from the club every 5 minutes in no parking charges and other fan platitudes will not be too disheartened in the next transfer window as our best players leave... Even if KL wants to continue, it's often more about the shear weight of personality and drive. I will be over the moon if someone digs this post out next season and we are in 8th place or better... And will be happy to look like a miserable arse, but I suspect I don have to worry - And that is the saddest thing.

Hahahaha its it's a classic from Turkish Lite TM.

Glad to see that you could not possibly be WUMing as if you were, I am sure you would not make your posts so obviously naive. As trousers points out, we have no WUMs on here but a few do open themselves up to accusations of being WUMs due to their exhibition of WUM like tendencies. So GS, as you have so much contact with 40,000 saints fans to be able to speak for the masses, with respect to how they feel after defeat, could you tell me how we should feel? We are obviously failing to be real fans in some way if we can't be in perpetual mourning following defeat... And should we like or dislike M. Pochetino ? Seriously, it's just so confusing and we need your guidance as you so obviously have all the answers.

No. Suggest you boycott the club and this board until he does to show how real your anger is. We will have greater respect for you if you do as it will confirm you to be the clubs most sincere and super fan.

You need to unburden yourself from the constraints of seeking perfection in this relationship, or expecting 'her' to change - love the 'club' for what it is, not for what you want it to be... anothe anology might be how we care for our kids - its unconditional and we always care no matter what they do to 'disappoint' us ;-) ...and everyone hates Nolan ;-)

... misssing the 'in my opinion which is on more valid than any other' bit realy though ar you not? Quetsion: do you have a job? Wife, Kids? or is this your only source of amusement?

Bad Spelling?... nah, bad typing and no chance of editing... ignoring? easier said than done - its why WUMs are so effective, because its human nature to respond, no matter what common sense is telling you to avoid. I have met Duncan on a number of occasions, decent, loyal and passionate about Saints... sure an opinionated bastard, just like the rest of us, but at least honest about it. The point though is that some on here attack him because they KNOW of his job, his background etc which has nothing to do with the debate, and to me that is just cowardly - sure have a go at his opinions, I do, but it should be about his footballing idealogy, nothing else.

To be fair, its pretty imporatnt that he CAN have this opinion . Why should Duncan compromise his opinion on fhow he feels fans should be treated, just because the club decide to stock his publications? I would argue that he would have less credibilty IF HE CHOSE to ignore how he felt becoiause they stocked his books. As I said, I do not agree with him on the ownership questions, I have had plenty of debate on Lowe, On PLCs on Wilde/Crouch and more recently on KL. But the fact remians he his always honest with his opinion. I dont even agree with his OP, but some of the posts have become laced with spite and bitterness that opinion does not deserve. There are some on here who present an opinion not their own just to irritate, yet are treated better... to me that sums up what is sadly wrong with thees sites.

I find it pretty fricken sad that some of you feel its fine to attack Dincan so personnally, when he has no anonimity as you guys do... easy to be 'hard' from behind the secrecy of the keyboard. Pretty f**king low IMHO. I disagree completely with many of Duncan's views on ownership as for me I have accepted what football has become and can live with that. Accepting what it has become makes it easier to accept the business focus and the fact that the club will not love you back. To me the thought of Fans on the board and input into key decsions is frightening if we want to challenge established views of our 'natural place' - Duncan has a more more idealistic view, and yes it could be said to be an old fashioned one, but he has never tried to hide his opinion or his desire for such approaches... he has been honest about his true opinions which is more than can be said for some on here - cowardly WUMs. Attacking the publishing/books because you disagree with his politics is another pathetic load of garbage - the independent reviews of the books is testament to tehir qualoity... and those guys have probably lost money on all of them - as they believe in providing fans with access to such history.... seriously, this place has become pretty pathetic - the 'dont take the internet so seriously' is the mantra of the cowardly keyboard warriors without the balls to provide their actual names, yet think they are soooo funny writing such shiete. Can only assume they hide behind their avatars, because they would be f**king embarrassed if folk knew they spouted such sheite... they should be.

First up I ain't saying it's right... But why all the desire to be part of the prem, with the usual panic merchants saying we would blow promotion... If we don't really like what it's all about. Anyone new on here yesterday would think they had stumbled on a bunch of naive kids who had been on another planet for the past 20 years... The game IS al about money ... And some on here seem only to have just realised this.... But it's also about progression. IMHO, P of his carrying on NCs project. Progress in the league is priority...why? Because the actual difference between 12 and 7th will be over 4 mil now, but the difference it makes to how the club is perceived is much more valuable. To the outside, it will be seen that we are the best of the rest... Potentially, we are also seen as attractive bet to push on, if we can keep the best kids and attract 1 or 2 bits of quality.... NC and POCH see that as more important than the cups... We might not like it, but that is their view and the way to progress the club... As mentioned before, when you stop expecting the club to love you back, you are not disappointed that it does not.... Those expecting the 'love' are those who are truly left disappointed.... Was a crappy performance by by a group of players that were knackered... But should have been good enough to win. Not for the first time this season, we have failed to convert chances which have cost us... Well surprise surprise, happens at all clubs... That's Ethan take em more often, win things... Not exactly tricky is it... If the 'message' given by POCH to players by his selection wasoneof indifference! then the players still had the opportunity to go for it regardless, if they desired... Too knackered IMHO, and I was there, so saw it all first hand... ****ty day, but hardly something new...