Frank's cousin

Oh Turkish dear boy, very clever... We will see what happens in the summer. The desire expressed by les is great, but I still believe that the 'financial mess' statement was to set expectations... Unlike some on here, I just hope I am wrong, would like nothing more to be eating platefuls of humble pie as it would mean we have held on to all and will be going into the new season full of optimism. Some it seems are happiest when they can blow their egos with their 'visionary' facts.... This playground is full of the typical little bullies wanting all to see how high they can pi ss.....

No agenda, just honest opinion... Never been shy of stating my support for Strategy Cortese was trying to implement... Irrespective of what some gossip, or rumour is posted about his personality, or your childish comments on his height... It's not about his personality, liking him or not, never has been, just about what is being done. Mistakes have been made, and they are costly, but you think KL and the ice hokey guy won't make errors in the transfer market? All clubs do.... They will as well and won't be written off with some childish reference to weight, as you seem to do... My last comment is based on actions, not simply accepting PR written copy... As with Cortese, I never gave a shied what he spouted in his few interviews, words mean nothing, it's actions that count. When we see some from KL and Kruger in the summer we will know what their strategy is, before then it's a tad naive of you to believe everything you read... It's also naive not to recognise why the other guy tried to spin normal transfer commitments/payments, as something 'concerning'...

True, em but sometimes we focus on the wrong questions. True we will never spend 200mil trying to buy success, and I for one am glad we won't. But what is the point of academy investment and having such a good one, if we never see the full potential as the best kids are sold so early? Where is the joy to be had in supporting a club that periodically has a crop of talent that should we hold on to it for 3-4 seasons would see is genuinely compete... Only for it always to be sold before we see any real benefit? Sure, amazing talent will leave, but as I saw it, all Cortese was trying to do was create a club where that talent would Not be sold at 18 no matter what, by spending on a few key positions whilst that crop developed... Signalling intent. We don't know what Markus agreed was a fair investment, and can only speculate as to whether he spent more than was promised, or whether KL is less willing of not to continue that level... But I do not think it's impossible for a club like ours to have periodic success if we plough the cash into decent contracts that keep our best talent here until 22-24, rather than let it go for half it's potential value at 18... That is just soul destroying, as we are NOT some L2 club that needs to sell a kid for 1mil every other yer to avoid admin...

Sure, fe, mistakes made, but happens everywhere.... But to those debating whether a 30mil sale of Shaw would be spent or not is to me the wrong question. Even if we spend 30mil on 2 or 3 players, unless we get someone as good as or better than Shaw at LB, we will be weaker. It's always riskier trying to improve through spending. Hanging on to what we have is far more important, but sadly this board have shown no public indication of having the stomach for the sort of strategy that would encourage this talent to stay... So far...

No Barry or Dune or whatever alter ego you are Wumming us with this week, you see you just illustrate how much you simply don't get it with that post... Or wind up, whatever.. Suggesting an element of stupidity that is most amusing. It's the fact that historically it has always NOT been that way ... Think Forest, think'84 and you realise that it's only the Sky Prem years in which we have become conditioned into believing nothing better than mid table is possible. Well you go **** off and be happy with your acceptance of mediocrity if you want. Some of us are happy to see a more positive attitude, whatever the outcome. Sadly, I suspect the current board will satisfy your low expectations more readily than mine... Despite the REAL potential of this squad if augmented by some modest investment and a real desire to progress.

CB - I do get the point you are trying to make, and I can appreciate why you are making it. But you are missing mine. You are right in that 'mere' CL qualification seems at odds with a philosophy, dreamer or otherwise, of true or ultimate success. But as I have stressed in all previous posts, it's about progress. If we finish 8th this season that is good progress over last... Which means 7th next season or better to continue in that vein. That is what we should be aiming for at ten every least or what is truest the point? Is the old Olympian spirit of the loser of just taking part in the prem enough for you? Serious question. Sorry but it's not what I want to see. Sure I will most likely end up disappointed, as our desirables are sold by a board that seem at best naive... And we find our 'natural struggling place' once again... But I would rather be fecked off and disappointed in that, than have the mentality that says it's the best we can hope for. That sort of defeatist attitude is to me all that is wrong with the 'Sky' era mentality.

Sorry David, that is wrong - no one is saying that not getting to 4th or 5 the is failure. It's about not even bothering to try and hit those heights which is failure in my eyes. The sad fact is a many fans do now accept survival as good success... Please tell me what is the point of playing competitive sport if you accept survival as a great result? We we aver become conditioned by the media and SKY in to assuming there is no point in hoping for anything beyond the being the best of those teams for whom survival is seen as the first priority.... That sort of negative mentality is ****, no matter what someone says about realism, expectation or possibility. The right mental approach consistently must be worth 12 points on its own... It's also incredibly fricken sad that the WUMs on here seem obsessed with with belittling and sneering at one of the dude mental aspects of being a fan - the hopes and dreams of aspiration and ambition which are NOT determined purely by cynicism/probability. ...your final sentence says it all... But it's only natural that if you have a crap season, survival is better than relegation....

Fair enough- only way SG will take note is if posters drive away those who pay to keep it open...

Bearsy = cool bear ;-) GlasgowSaint = complete c*** (or am I being a tad disingenuous ?)

As usual, a typical stalking interminable ramble missing the point and arguing against things people haven't said anyway... Not well done, actually quite sad that you simply refuse to accept others POV s and respond with the cynical, sneering and patronizing **** poor prose of a typical pseud... What is most tiresome is your inability to see the point. No one is 'demanding' investment, and ther is Nothing wrong with being disappointed with a system that has closed the door on a repeat of '84. You seem to think that only you and your select few cynics understand the practical difficulties and improbable nature of anything but 8th... EVERYONE understands that, but thankfully not all fans have lost the dreamer mentality that keeps clubs attracting new fans and holds on to the old.... In a sport wher the best the majority can ever hope for is to be patronised as a great mid table side.... Whilst a few hold the monopoly on success. You sneer all you like, but thankfully for most fans, the dreams and aspirations are not dulled by the seemingly impossible. If anything it's the the refusal to accet the glass ceiling that means perpetual lower league clubs still get just about enough through the gate to keep them going. 'sneering dismissal of 8th' - please, and you have the cheek to suggest I criticise what has not been said... 8th is great, it represents great progress, and what is more important is it's been done with some stylish play and with a good amount of homegrown youth thrown in. I simply do not see how wanting/ hoping that it's not just a flash in the pan and that we can continue to build and progress - if we can keep the talent- is 'arrogant' or anything to do with the Sky mentality... If supporting is only about the cultural camaraderie for you and nothing more, that's your prerogative, glad you are happy. For others it's always included an element that it's also a sporting competition, winning and success not just to 'give you a patronising buzz at work on a Monday'', but about seeing progress, growth and improvement.... Which is in itself 'success. You need to stop being such a patronizing cock - seriously, your'll get a decent mates.

Nowt Tony, absolutely nothing wrong in Dreaming a little. Just because about 6 loud voiced posters + their little hypo gimp say it's unrealistic and thus you will be left disappointed and only have yourself to blame, does not make dreams as less valid. Dreams, false hopes/dawns, diss ointment and failure to reach expectations set too high in the first place, have been what's kept fans paying since the start of football... Part of fan culture (that Turks us always on about), and can't be eroded no matter how much WUM rhetoric is spouted. But a final question to all the 'pragmatists/realists/miserable feckers'; if the media (Lying scumbag Journos - that one is So funny...) are to believed, about 6or 7 of our players have been linked to Champions league clubs... So if those clubs think they are good enough or have the potential to be, is it not reasonable to assume that if we can keep them together for a couple more seasons(yes we know, some will always go eventually) that as a first team at least we have the makings of a very good side, that could at least bloody a few noses in an attempt?... Sure we will not have the kind of cash to ensure we have a depth do squad to guarrantee a top 6 let alone a top 4 every year, but the odd season where things go right, injuries low and and extra few coming through and it's NOT impossible to go from a good season to great one. Always, key is not letting talent leave at 16-18, but hold onto it until it's 21-23. We do that and even without huge spending a Great Season, is possible, no matter what the odds.

Problem is when you are not top 4 though is that no matter how much we get for players and we could well end up with 50-60mil... If the we can not attract players who at LEAST as good as the ones who have left... End result if we can't is a weaker side... Funny how many seem ok with Shaw leaving, yet when we have a 'Fox' next season, how happy will they be then? I get get the impression the new board don't get how the football finance works... The naivity of the comments made about the 27 mil in transfer fees owned shows that... So I suspect they will sell 2 or 3, use this to cover the remainder of the academy cost and the transfer debt and that's it... With a few million available for some average squad players.... How long before that approach causes chorus of anti board rhetoric from the stands next season... The fact our young squad with a huge amount of potential will be pulled apart - is one of the saddest aspects of the modern game. The board DO have the power to resist should they chose to as players are under contract! but no one has the balls to stand up anymore! and the convenient excuse is the players want to go.... It was fun whilst it lasted, but also frustrating simply because when you get a real taste for what could have been, anything less is always disappointing. We all continue to support whatever, because they are our club, but it's cruel. Some of us are old enough to know that in the past such a crop of talented young players would have you thinking about success for the next 4-5 seasons... Now it just means you count yourself lucky if they don't all leave...

... seems excessive to me... the company I work for has a CEO on about $8mil - but the company turnover is around $4bn per annum... football is an oddbal and cant be compared directly to other industry but, it all depends on what was in his contract, what was promised by marcus etc - that figure may well have included a huge bonus for getting back up... we dont know - and never will. Thing that is important is that this did not come at the expense of reasonable investment in the team or player wages appropriate to keep talent. The doom mongers seem to forget that teh accounts state we made a profit... but loike all clubs pay transfer fees over a number of years so have those liabilties... but I guess that does not make as good a headline or story...

I dont get it... see NC was just a short arsed dwarf so why is anyone affraid of him?... secondly, if its a legal thing, then we have been told by the wise that NC is so crap in taking legal action anyway, why be worried... he will lose against whoever he tries to sue (covers both the 'comedy moment' and the seriously)

FF, seriously, as someone who has worked within the Union envronment for so many years, surely this is ******... I would suggest that legally, any CDA counts for feck all if its being used to 'cover up' serious allegations that breach employment law... bullying, constructive dismissals etc. I once signed a compromise agreement which stated my pay off was final and I do not tell anyone why i left.... my lawyer said it would never stand up, I could say what I liked provided it was the truth - anfd I did - you cant buy 'silence' - this is football, not some mafia Omerta.... Folks dont say anything when they leave, not because they are frightened of the place they are leaving, but because they dont want to prejudice their chances of getting a job within the industry at another club...

Oh stop being such a wet tart - surprized you managed to extract yourself from between Turk's buttcheeks long enough to post these days, but sadly your contributions have not improved... Noone was 'insulting' Matty boy, just asking the fricking question as to what his beef was... no good giving it the old 'nasty nic' nod and a wink and refusing to tell all... because what is there to be affraid of? If its true he cant be sued... so just how 'brave' was he? or was his beef just personal?

True , but you would expect him to be given he is several seasons ahead. The thing I love about the way we are trying to do things is that second half we have FOUR teenagers on the pitch away at City... Great stuff. Am proud of our lads today despite the result. As for Gazza, not sure why he should get so so much stick. He is young virtually no experience at this level and may or may not come good... A certain few 'famous' posters on here are quoted a a say Lallana will never be good enough....

Morning darling, how did I know you might pop up so quickly after i post... seriously good response time that. I would suggest its less about a refusal to criticise, and more a recognition that there is no value in being critical of something we dont see as that important.... pointless even, when the things that Do matter were progressing well. Its not surprizing really is it that that those who criticise, did so from day one and were gleefully looking for every tiny mistake to jump on.... and you wonder why some find that strange, weird or agenda driven ... or WUMing? Seriously? You seem to think that those who had no issue with him were somehow blind to his imperfections or too naive to see it - that is your arrogance and your failing in all this - his failings were as clear as mud, his mistakes clear to see... just not that big enough a deal to make such a fuss over as you and the precious few seem to have done.... are you all really that sensitive to the 'big bad man does' when it comes to the club? A tad amusing if so...

Very true and very fair - just that for some of us the negatives mentioned were far outwieghed by the on the pitch progress. For some of us we don't expect or need our Chairman to be perfect, but focus on those things that lead to the best possible on the field progress... Being disspointred in NC for whatever reeason is fair, he made mistakes and was NOT perfect afterall. But the 'perspective' called for IMHO is that the amout of bitter vitriol spouted by a few on here is disproportionate to his 'mistakes' - especially when placed in context of what has been achieved in the last 5 years... therefore the logical/rational conclusion given that teh smae few keep spouting the smae mantra at every opprortunity is that its either WUMing or just plain wierd....

To be realistic comparison though, you have to differentiate between direct 'Investment' from owner - eg cash provided in excess of commercially generated revenue... and use of cash from derived from our normal income... sorry, but there are too many myths about who has 'invested what'. FFP rules will prevent owners simply buying players in future... they will be able to make infrstructure investment etc, but not pay for players and wages.... naturally loads of ways around this... 30 mil training facilty anyone? ...

Whilst I share the nagging worry... TBF, we dont know yet how the new board will approach these things. Seemed odd though that there was such a 'Negative headline' re the 27 mil.... perfectly normal paying of transfer fees over a number of years - which if as suspected was a dig at NC, seemed a bit of a misfire since most football fans will know about the the transfer fee timescale etc... so to me came across as very naive on the Hofs part... Not sure why some are so determined to dislike and undermine anything NC brought to the club. The need to be personally loved by SFC at all times seems rather odd to me... can only assume some must have taken offence at his very public distain for the rather 70s tasteless desire to have fitted carpet in the bathroom. Chairman, boardmembers etc are not here to be liked. They will all make mistakes and have strengths and weaknesses as no one is perfect - ultimately, as the cliche goes, they are judged by results on the pitch... and our progress and potential is pretty clear for all to see. Much has been made of the 'cock ups re commercial side of things' - yet those making those statements do so with such a bare faced cheek conveniently forgetting their criticism of the likes of Lowe for being so 'focussed on it, rather than what was happening on the pitch' .... you really could not make it up. NC focussed on the players - and their environment. As a result he has allegedly ****ed off staff and fans with his aproach. Well I seriously dont give a feck. If you dont like your job because of a nasty demanding boss, get a new one. Ultimately - 2 promotions, 8th in prem, stylish attacking football, players happy, infrastructure development a legacy for our future, club worth at least DOUBLE what owners have invested to date.... thats a fricken good record in anyones book... I can live with ****ing off some commecial partners (if that is factually accurate) and ex players and charging for the parking if it gives us that progress... some cant - so not sure we will ever get any consensus.

A final question that makes so much not add up.... Given that most have generally agreed ML was a decent bloke and all that, loads if integrity, friendly and just a nice guy.... Well if that's the case why would he be best friends - close trusted friend switch such an 'incompetent, not nice bastard' as some of you are suggesting....? Makes no sense

Problem is, whatever now happens in the summer, we will never know whether it would have been better or worse had he stayed... Yet despite that, there will still be plenty of rubbish spouted as if Chrystal balls were ten penny. how NC is perceived is really just down to what you expect from the club. If you want it all fan friendly and nice an cuddly, and expect ten club to live you, then naturally you will have hated him... If on the other hand, you don't give a toss about all that rubbish and just expect a determined desire to improve, irrespective of how much a bastard he might have been, then he is likely to have had more appeal... The truth a out his departure? Doubt we will ever know, always going to be some bias depending on the source of info. Probably a combination. KL may well have wanted to diversify the responsibilities, and that is great if the drive and strategy is unified... We have yet to see whether the new board walk the walk, I hope they do, but the summer will tell us a lot. Personally, I liked NC. Not as a person as I did not know him, and really do t acre how much of a bastard he might have been... He was getting the job done. As to the various interpretations of the accounts... Think those being critical are being a little disingenuous to say the least... We don't know what Markus promised or agreed with NC... And the value of of any investment made to date has at least doubled in that time, which would not have me complaining. The so called 'transfer debt' is a nothing story, as it's perfectly normal to pay these off over a number of years... Why we paid 20 mil that year.... Which I would say is about right for a club with our turnover etc.... But where folk want to see muck, they will always find it...

i may be completely wrong, but can someone please explain the difference between the headline of 'We owe 27 mil in Transfer fees' which implies some sort of wreck less spending.... And the more typical payment of transfer fees over a number of years which is quite normal... Either we have done something different to all other clubs, or it's a normal situation... Which is it? Seriously, I don't know, but would prefer to understand this all before assessing/accusing etc... As to the training Ground, I thought original plans were 15 mil, but a DECISION was taken to go the extra mile and invest more... I may be wrong on that, but so many contradictory stories appear, it's not easy to get to the TRUTH hidden amongst so much agenda...

Nah, sh, this can't be true... goat boy said he had been personally taken from behind in an unsuspecting manner by the nasty one from Switzerland, which has left him permanently scarred... GS on the other hand is too unattractive to have ever tempted the Italian dwarf into man love with reach around... For that you need hypo and CB Fry.