Frank's cousin

Put thi into context - players wanting a new challenge AFTER they have achieved something and going for MEGA amounts that no club would turn down - in all cases with the exception of Bale, the clubs had BENEFITTED form their assets, none of these were 18. Clubs in other countries seem to hold their homegrown talent until around 22/23 so you get some benefit before teh big move - which then also means the club gets the full or better value due the players being that more or cliser to peak. They are under contract and we do not need the money. The biggest mistake some make is that they think we sell Luke for 30mil and we can buy 20-3 players to improve teh squad... 1)| asumes every penny is reinvested, 2) assume sthat we get 100% success with transfers (50% average iseems to be the norm) and whilst it might be possible to improve the squad - we will WEAKEN the first team unless we can get a player in equally or better than shaw... which we aint going to do. It is in the Boards hands. You know as well as I do that this would be accepted if NC were still in charge and he would be getting the flack for being 'weak' in the face of teh bigger clubs...

If MP was expecting 100mil investment to 'push on' and buy big names on big contracts, I would agree with you. However, looks pretty clear that this is about assurances that we keep players - SOMETHING WE CAN AFFORD from our normal Turnover, but needs the board to ensure they dont just want to capitalise player assets. You are over simplifying it - We DO NOT need to let these players or MP go from a financial perspective. I odnt believe those players would push for a move but are open to it... so it IS down to teh bboard whether they want to cash in - but if they do so they are a) likely to see others want to go including MP, b) see a squad which has not yet peaked and is fiull of potential, never realise it, and c) not see any progress, if anything may even see us struggle. One of teh biggest contributers to our progress and success has been the stabilty, not wholesale changes in playing staff... something w eswould see this summer if half the side is poached... and that always spells a struggle...

...and why it was difficult to be totally confident in the new board whe they tookl over, despite those that were 'going wilde' that their nemesis NC had departed... and there in lies the problem. There are just too many similarities with the Wilde/Crouch, well intentioned, fan friendly but as without means, totally out of their depth in developing a strategy for the at that time. KL has the means, but its clear doesn not want to invest any more. That is her right and we can not hold that agaisnt her. However, I would question why she might not see the benefit of providing some funds for infrastructure that would allow the commercial revenue streams to be prioritised for the sporting side within the FFP regs.... beacsue the potential of this side to do even better is there - and that would in turn increase the value of her asset. It suggests that either they are not taking the advice from those who know this, dont believe it, or are simply not interested in the supporting that strategy... which is so frustrating given how obvious the potential for 2 or 3 years of continued progress is... IF we lose MP, Adam and Luke, we will lose ALL the momentum we have established and that is the biggest shame. As mentioned on the other thread, if we did not have the talent we do, or the potential, we could argue that 15th and above is great and we would all be happy... but we have shown much more than that, with more to come with the right yet mmodest investment... board need to show their mettle now and do what is right for the club... see the potential for progress lies with teh set up and players we have... not starting again

Coupled with those who are so fragile of ego that they can't let the barmily (made up word?) optimistic just enjoy it for themselves etc... As scoring points off posters on a web forum, seems the highlight of their lives.... If we were an Ok side with a load of journeymen punching above their collective weight, I would say great, we are doing the very best we can within the constraints of our resources etc. that is fair enough. But we have seen enough of this squad to recognise when there is potential to do even better. It is the likelihood that instead of progress next season we will probably go from 8th to anywhere between 10-16, if this squad is broken up and MP replaced that is disappointing. UP, 6-9 every season would be great under normal circumstances, but a) this season has shown we could do more for a couple of years and B) chances are we won't be at that level given the perception that we will see major changes

) Well it would be even brighter if this squad stayed together for another year or so... It's the realisation that this squad has not yet reached its full potential and probably now never will, that is the source of negativity.

Sadly think dig dig is right... From the very first 'over reaction' of normal transfer spend spread, reported as 'massive debt and 'difficult' situation, we have been primed for sales. Now ow I have nothing against KL. Despite what some may think I don't fawn over/ love NC. But I will pose a few questions; 1. Some have suggested NC was just a stroppy bit who left because he could not get his way with Katrina's cash... An alternative perspective might be that it's clear this quad has potential, and it's backbone is homegrown talent. But to keep it together and progress does require additional funds, inline with the FFP rules... Without those funds it's clear that this side will break up... I would suggest that there is NO difference between a manager leaving because the Baird/ chairman won't back them, and a CEO getting fecked off and leaving because the owner wot back the club financially - and we did not want yo buy success, but merely be able to hang on to talent we had developed... Something that is reinforced by the investment in the academy. 2. Do folk think we would be in this ambiguous position re MP, Shaw and Adam etc if NC was still in charge? 3. Why are some happier to be mid table, with a nice friendly board, than at least being positive about the potential and fighting like hell to keep it but with a bastard in charge? Some of you have seriously got your priorities all wrong... Which is the mentality of the also ran/ losers in sport.

to be civil and serious for a moment, you are right. The truth is everyone is a selling club at the right price... The difference though between us and the top 4 or 5 , is that when they sell they CAN replace with equal of better talent. Our problem, at our size and rep is that when we sell a Shaw or a Lallana, talent we will ONLY ever have if we produce it ourselves, is that unless we have kids ready to to take their place, we will be weaker as a side as a result, as we won't be able to attract talent of the same or better quality...I hate the fat it's true, but we will always lose such talent eventually, but if we can convince them to stay a few years more, we might, just might see something special now and again. Is that really too much to ask or expect from our board?

No no you are just like the rest of us... It's the saddest thing with the Premier league, and despite the crap they spout about it being the best... It's just the best of a load of leagues now dominated by a fe sides to the perennial exclusion of others, no matter how they try to do things right. Whether there's any truth in the Lallana wanting to go story or not, it's indicative of all that is wrong with football today. The fact players can treble their earnings elsewhere and are willing to play a bit part in a larger squad to get it. What is so bad about earning 40k a week, playing for the side that spotted you, coached you and gave you a chance, when there is potential for success IF they desire to stay together? Why does the likes if Shaw at 18 need to go and earn more, when the success earned the hard way with this club would be of so much more worth? Championship of CL medals... Very nice and desirable. BUT doing it with a club that yo have been with for a long time would surely be so much more rewarding.... But the media, the league, the clubs with the global cash and arrogance to match seem a more desirable place, a bigger pull than doing something amazing with your mates, and that is why I don't give a flying feck anymore about all the cultural stuff, the history and the platitudes FF seems so bothered about. Because if we will NEVER. Be able to realistically challenge the best, then why bother? Sport is about the competition and a 'playing field' level enough to ensure it's about talent nurtured and coached... Not about the biggest budget... Or it should be anyway. The media and as a result those clubs lucky enough to have their billionaires investing, are happy with the status quo. But we are a club that tries to do things the right way, by not only nurturing talent, but by giving it an opportunity,and yet we cannot be given a chance as the vultures swoop, and the owners are happy to give in, also just happy with the 'league status' rather than actually doing something within it..... Then seriously I am not sure why I bother .... It's only because so many fans feel that it's about supporting whatever, that the clubs and the league get away with it... If owners are just happy to beware of it, what message does that send to players, and more importantly us fans... To many have become conditioned into thinking we have to accept it as it is. Cortese was obviously a mean bastard... (Although I suspect if Markus has been around to steady his hand, we Amy hae see on a better good cop/bad cop balance), but he DID want to upset the status quo and overturn mediocre expectation. Whether he would have succeeded or not against the odds I don't know... Probability low, but FFS at least he seemed like he was interested enough to give a bloody good try. Not bothering because of the FEAR of failure is worse than failure itself. Accepting out position, consolidation, selling talent early, rather than later or saying NO and keeping it for the contractual length even if it leaves on a free as result, is the only way we will challenge expectations and conventional wisdom. If KL and Krueger are prepared to do that we will have a great next five years whatever the happens.... If they are resigned to losing players and willing to accept the 'also ran' - it will be disappointing IMHO given the potential that we obviously have.

I'm with Minty on this. Local company, not some loan sharks dressed as 'lenders' or other dodgy betting group. The amount until you get top 4 is never going to be huge anyway. But a few comments: 1. Alps, we don't know if this deal was set up by previous or current board - so maybe a little disingenuous to start suggesting it's a feck up by Krugs et al. 2. However, if it is the new board, perhaps, just for once those who have spent a few months slagging the previous incumbent for 'crap' commercial deals with aap3 etc might just acknowledge that in the grander scheme of things, there is no difference, another local company for whom the deal is never possible if we are demanding 5mil plus... So either both NC and Krugs did OK, or they are BOTH equally crap.... Which is it to be if you wish to avoid idiotic inconsistency in your evaluations? 3. If it is Krugs et al though.... It is perhaps a little disingenuous of them to go about publically criticising the lack of previous commercial success, when this deal is unlikely to represent that much more in financial terms....

You our have both missed the key point- the cyclical success becomes possible when you have periodic groups of talented youngster and you keep them .... For longer than letting them go at 16/18. This is how the smaller sides in other countries get periodic success... By keeping talent they have unearthed or developed until they are 22/24 - they get more bucks when eventually sold AND get some benefit... So no one is saying we won't sell players, just works harder that it's on our terms - does ANYONE really think we have developed /spent 30 mil on the academy just to feed bigger clubs? its about demonstrating to the kids that at Saints you get a path to first team, you will get regular football and with luck some success.... It works elsewhere. We have just not had the resources to do this before. I suspect NC was not after 100s of millions to buy success, but after the cash resources to ensure we could offer competitive wages to keep the best kids just that little bit longer... Combined with some wise purchases ( and we all know he got some badly wrong - as all clubs do) we could do very well indeed of we get the coaching right as well... It's not too much to believe... As to Krueger... Sure the Jury is out, and his success in Ice Hockey is noted, but from what we have heard to date there IS an element of naïveté in what he has said...

Duncan, the reality IMHO is that for all Kreuger has 'talked' he has giver VERY. Little away of any substance. Not sure who said it but there were wise words above that his fast task should have been to tie MP down to a new contract. I am worried that whatever good intentions he and KL have, they are showing the same naivety as Wilde did - with focus all on fan platitude to win over the masses with tales of stripes and history - I don't want out chairman worried about history, that's your job ;-) 8 want him working his arse off behind the scenes to get contracts sorted early and convince key players and coaches that we do have a progressive future to look forward to. I stand by what I said before. Too often the fans of the 'smaller' provincial clubs seem to place too much importance on the 'culture, history and family' that is the community club, because it's all they have. They have forgotten what it's about to demand a culture that I surely about being as competitive from a sporting perspective as possible.. 'Just glad we still have a club to support', ' happy to survive', let's just consolidate... Etce etc... Are all the words of those defeated and resigned to mediocre ritzy before a season starts .... With pride coming from their 'culture' rather than the trophy cabinet. No one is suggesting that we will have the financial resources to be perennial Top 6. (Despite what CB Fry misinterprets for the hundredth time) and as many others I have no desire to see us try and buy success. But the is a difference in using our resource to KEEP. Our best talent for a few years longer and doing what other clubs have done when they periodically get a decent crop of talent... Have periodic excellence... If Bayer Leverkusen could do it, if Everton could do it, why not Saints? But out the start t all that is decisive, effective leadership that takes care of business rapidly and without compromise - and to be fair, it should not be the chairmanship jobs to be worrying about stripes and history... He should have more important fish to fry...yes there is spa e for someone to look after those things, but if should not be Krueger

LOL you are just so funny, are your panties moist that you where heroically able to come to FFs defense? FF is big enough and wise enough to stand up for himself and has enough courage of his own convictions to express his own, rather than sycophantically follow the 'few' forum 'elite'. I know this because I have had a few beers with FF. I respect his work, his opinion and and his conviction. I don't agree with it all the time, and I have issues with Kreuger's silver tongue which is why I questioned his appraisal of the discussion. If he has issue with my post, he will let me know... As always, you jump in where you have diddly squat idea, hoping it pleases one of your 'masters' - when you have an opinion that is your own, come back and express it, in the meantime, why not go and keep CB FRY's backside warm...

. You need to at least think before you reply with your ingrained prejudices... lets take them in turn shall we? 1. 'the Italian' - do you have to try really hard to come across as a bigot or is it something that comes naturally? As i understood it he was Swiss Italian anyway, but what has his nationality got to do with anything any way? 2. Nowt wrong in my book by 'lapping up'' talk that suggests ambition... positive vibes and all that ...but thats about the sporting side, not stripes and parking fees and other fan friendly ****** of 'being in touch with the fan' but as always the proof of the pudding is in the eating... can only judge on the year on year progress - and ...yes...yawn.... cash... from liebherr blah blah, yes we all know that he was so great at spending other peoples money.... well apply some intelligence to that for a moment. If you look in detail at what the accounts show, the liebherrs seem comfortable with the initial 30 mil equity conversion... Something that suggest this was approx amount Markus was willing to spend on our progress. The amount spent since seems pretty normal for a prem club, with both cap ex and transfer expenditure likely to be spread over a number of years... It's only the new board that seem to be making any headlines out of it... A cynic might suggest in order to prepare fans for player sales that are not really necessary... But hey... 3. Ask not if, but how.... Seems a pretty good mantra to me, rather than just accepting mediocrity, no matter what your 'realism' tells you... But your life choice I guess 4. And there was me think you all felt that Cortese was sacked? Can't walk out and be sacked, which is it? And whilst I don't agree with walking out if that is the case, I can at least understand why someone who has on his own led an organization through such rapid progress, despite being well rewarded, might believe he should be allowed to take on the challenge of the next step... He might consider he had earned that right and that it undermined his position to change the boardroom structure and reporting lines.... You seem to confuse someone understanding why someone might behave in a certain way, with agreeing with it... But why let such subtle things get in the way of your usual opening of gob before engaging your brain....

Fear not my bear friend - just lurking, waiting for a cunning response... I never have to wait long, as in the words of the great 'hound' - this place is full of sword namers

Your lack of self awareness is staggering... Or at least how you portray yourself... You are just much more subtle in your insults, that's all.... Surprised you have not suggested ,..again...yawn... That my responses must be down to being some sort of lush, drunk or whatever. You are not a troll Turkish, you are just a nasty piece of work that amuses yourself by laughing at anyone for whatever reason takes your fancy... As I said i pity you

Are you really that ugly a character in real life, or is it just your 'comedy' web persona? Just curious to understand why it is you get off on sneering, patronising sarcasm on something as trivial as this place, just to wind a few folk up? Must have been through some nasty stuff in your life if this give you so much pleasure. I pity you.

Well as you, kraken, CB and that Hypo who is normally up one of your arses, seem to obsessively follow me around with the same mundane critique, it's an easy assumption to make. Won't be long before they all show up.... You must be slacking though as beaten to it by that other patronising fellow Kracken today... Early start for him too

'Sense of self importance,'? Nah, not me, know my place, but you obviously suffer from a lack of self awareness... Maybe (I would hope so anyway) it's just your chosen forum persona, the bully boy, cruel and happy to continually spout made up rubbish about posters, for you own amusement - and you have the audacity to consider Cortese 'not a nice person' without a hint of irony ....what's the matter bully boy, why the hard act all the time ? Any skeletons in your closet that haunt you, or too shy to say? I used to think you were just trying too hard to be funny, but sadly it's true, you are just being a c*nt. But don't be offended, you can't take the ''mong' board so seriously can you.

You got that wrong for starters... The majority of the the regulars are indifferent to the CEO of te brewery, as they have never met him, but appreciate that before the brewery took over, the local was going down the pan. They are reasonably happy because despite some irritating little things like paying for parking, the pub is open doing well and quality of the beer has improved massively. Unfortunately the atmosphere is a bit crap now, as there are 3 or 4 folk who are always stood at the bar mouthing off as loudly as possible like a broken record about the same...same things, from how much they dislike the evil CEO, how much more they know about the beer than anyone else, and generally just ****ing a load of customers off. Some customers no longer visit, others less than they used to and the landlord appears not to care...

This attitude makes no sense whatsoever. Show me where/how we can find and attract a creative mid fielder of his or better quality for 25 mil? Otherwise no matter how much we get for him we are inevitably a weaker side.... And you think that is OK?

For once I must agree with you... Mrs f's cousin, also thinks he is top eye candy.... I just think he is a top player, although Davis was IMHO deserving of the MOM accolade today... Just, as I could easily have picked 5 or 6

I know your connections Westie, so this pleases me no end. ;-) I must admit, I am worried we will see some exodus, simply because of the stupid sums involved, yet as you know, I have always wished footballers had a desire to win things with their mates, rather than take shortcuts... Keep this lot together and we have a lot to look forward to.... After all, if someone is earning 40k a week, leaving for 80k a week and a short cut to medals is in my opinion greedy... But that seems to be the way of the footballer these days. Hope all is well with you and yours.

Sorry jeff, can you be sure we would get at a creative mid fielder and LB as least as good, ideally better for £55mil that owould be willing to join us? sorry but sales of prize assets will mean a weaker squad next season, no matter what as we can not attract players of that quality... And I don't think we have any ready academy boys that can slot in just yet...