Dman

This is the issue for me. It makes us way to obvious to read and easy to press and counter against. That's excluding the main thing that KWP, one of our best players, is a very very good attacking full back, but absolutely cannot play in the middle of the park - not technical enough. Move back to a more traditional back 4, with Charles in a holding role allowing full backs to push on, we'll improve over night. Also - Work on your fucking passing patterns.

Good shout

Because we've been really poor for the first 7 games and absolutely nothing suggests Russel Martin is capable to making a team promotion worthy.

I'm not sure but thinking about it, Martins demeanour has changed since Piroe went to Leeds.. I wonder if he was promised him and we didn't get him - or he wanted him and was told no. There has been a few odd comments from him since the close of the window. Definitely not all rosey I suspect.

I'm not so sure Martin is Wilcox man, if i'm honest. I suspect Wilcox has set the direction of the club (i.e possession based), but Wilcox man was Enzo. He rejected us, so I think we went back to Rassmus trendy algorithm. Obviously Martin would score high if we were looking at possession stats. I'm fairly sure I saw somewhere that Martin was high up the list when we appointed Jones... before Wilcox was here. I will judge him on results, but I think Wilcox done a decent job in the transfer market, if i'm honest.

Expecting this one to ramp up a bit in the next few weeks, especially when Leeds give us a pasting. So, not like the club will listen, who'd you have on your list? Its clear we want to play a possession based approach, so pointless wasting a post saying someone like Big Sam, Ralph etc. and clearly Potter isn't coming, so keep it realistic please... For me, the one I wanted all summer was Vieira but he's now managing in France so we've missed that boat. SR clearly like a risk, so on that Basis - Carrick or Henry please.

Its an interesting point... I can't believe that any of those clubs who've conceded sub 40 goals had 9 of those conceded in 2 games, so theoretically, we could conceded more than 40 and it not be that much of a determine. On the assumption we over achieved for the rest of the season in front of goal - isn't going to happen. But I agree, we've fucked up any chance of automatic promotion already and it was clear as day we wouldn't go up under Mr 10th Martin when we first appointed him.

Especially when Piroe was there ready and waiting.

I really (not really) hate to say it... but I told you so! I can't believe how obviously bad this appointment was going to be for us and we still done it anyway.

Yep - any team would struggle to replace Archer and Akpom at this level. I know they've not had the best of starts, but I'd still take Carrick over Martin - given the chance at this stage. At least there is a bit of unknown around Carrick, we all know Martin is bang average.

Watching Leicester Friday and last night, I cannot believe the gulf in teams, despite player for player being relatively similar in terms of quality. They're coached well, pass with a purpose and have a clear plan of how to score / win games. They didn't even have to break sweat against us, but a well drilled, sensible system with smart plans made them look levels above. I can only wonder how different things would be here if we weren't rejected by Wilcox man, Enzo and didn't have to make do with Rassmus' man, Martin. What a wasted opportunity appointing by martin

No worse is not saying better...

I think you've got your head massively in the sand on this one. I don't rate Che at all, but he's not the problem here.

The worse thing is, Martin is probably the worse of the lot. We'd be in no worse position now if we'd kept Selles.

We've implemented no style - what the hell are you watching. We aimlessly pass it around on our goal line before giving it away. Combined with that we heedlessly press and get carved apart like a knife through butter. We're literally like watching a Sunday league side being asked to press and pass it around a bit with no coaching or structure on passing patterns.

They're also the same players who scored 3 in 3 and 4 in 4 respectively. Other than Che missing one last night, that was, lets face it, a half chance - I don't remember there keeper having a decent save to make. The issue isn't our forward players, its the slow ponderous build up combined with a weak as piss midfield 3 selection. All on the manager.

This is practically a different group of players to that of last year - comparing last season with this season is apple and oranges. Also, I think everyone would agree that post Ralph (Jones then Selles) we've appointed sub par managers. I also think everyone largely agreed that the summer window was a successful one - now some are blaming the players again. Our poor form has been based on nothing but the manager this season. Ludicrous team selections and tactics. His job is to get the best out of what he has at his disposal - which lets be honest - is ridiculously strong for this leauge. He's not doing that. No track record of being a success anywhere else, we were warned about exactly what we're seeing, yet its the players? As it happens - I've no confidence in that fucking dickhead Rassums picking a suitable replacement, so you're right, 5th wont solve anything unless he fucks off along with his spreadsheet.

LOOOOOOOOOL

Even if the system they deploy is clearly not working and there is a reluctance to change? I'd say its extremely naive and stupid to persist with something for the sake of it. Out of interest, did you say this when Jones was here?

Fucking ridiculous team selection and tactics cause the fans to turn like that. Up until the Leicester game, the atmosphere has been in the main very positive in other home games. Even after conceding 4 against Norwich. Martin needs to take some responsibility.

In fairness, first 15 or so mins we actually did exactly that. We need to find a happy medium though - I've no issue with us playing out from the back, if its coached well and we have proper CM's and know our passing patterns. We're just all over the place atm. The biggest problem is the "inverted" full backs. It's taking away their strength of attacking down the line and it also seems to make Martin think we don't need to play a defensive midfielder because we have full backs covering - Its causing us no ends of problems and we have to bin it off - ASAP.

Do you blame them though? It was obvious to everyone on (other than Martin) that picking that midfield would end up biting us on the backside. If we can all see it, the players certainly will be able to as well

One thing that struck me, which brought back a bad feeling, was towards the last 5 minutes all you could hear was the Ipswich fans signing about Martin - "sacked in the morning" & references to his time at Norwich. It reminded me of that horrible night against Forest where there was a similar situation.

It should be a consideration for the board though.

The best managers instantly improve sides - think Poch when he came in, it took the best part of a week for him to clearly implement his style and improve us. Martin has had 3 months and (other than Sheff Weds) we look no better. We're making the same mistakes that Swansea made, that MK dons made, that were now making. It all points to me that Martin is a very average manager.