gio1saints

Fair result. At last. We been done over so much lately it’s a relief to get a decision our way. Onwards and upwards!

First goal wins it. Unless it’s us. Pretty much as expected first half. Two teams not all that fantastic. Some of our moves were “ almost” great but no shots on target tells its own story. That needs to be rectified second half or Everton will steal all three points and it will be a mess on here..

Lallana on the pre match rondos….is too good. Levels above rest of team with his nimble feet. And then he claps the rest of the players around him at the end like he’s taking the session. Very much Head coach in the making….

Classic. Exhibit 1.1.👏

@Fabrice29 was going to DM you this but fuck it can’t be bothered, I’ve got a big match to deal with this afternoon. And Anyhow - please don’t spoil there fun game of telling everyone how much they hate RM ~ and in so many fun and cringeworthy ways too. They are and continue to be so inventive about it. Ive even noted that there’s a feeling that even IF we win today ( some chance with that legohead in charge!!) that it will be despite RM. Haha that’s a nice touch- good one! FWIW - Even if we score from a long throw and TP nods it in it will be despite RM and even if Tyler and Fernandez who are starting every important match, are playing it’s despite RM as he knows nothing about football. Oh, and if you or I should say “ but don’t you think this pantomime Villanisation of RM is a bit OTT - he doesn’t actually get onto the pitch, you know, to kick the ball around, and politely may I add for the most part, they will come on here and say, and I paraphrase “ Anger anger anger previously aimed at RM now full square on another Saints fan for suggesting that we may be able to look at this in another way. Oh NO, NO, No, NO this is not how the narrative rolls out —-frustrated anger is now to be aimed full square at anyone does not fully agree - so this means they automatically are a “ fuck shit crap wank cunt Lucy, Martin, martins mum, SR employee, cretin, fanboy, troll, mental, stupid, idiotic, apologist for the indefensible idiot etc etc etc “ 🤭. Of course we are. And so very inventive all the ways to abuse another saints fan. That we ALL are all of those things - and none of them at the same time is neither here nor there, 😂, but as a student of human psychology it’s telling that NUANCE is totally absent as you comment - that there can only be two sides - like in a football match - in this debate strikes me as rather apt. The passion the RM haters display - and their hatred of the “ opposition” is exactly the same as if you go to a derby match. These posters willingly would get out there fathers gun and shoot people like you and I- at a match - and on this forum - despite fact we are Saints fans through and through. Why? We take the place of the source of there anger by posting in here and becoming the” easy” target for there weird emojis and paragraphs explaining why one is a cubt. 😂 Anyone fancy meeting me for a pint pre match to prove I am not as bad as some here might think. Please form an orderly queue. 😇😂

Pretty much how I see it. Nervy match for both I’m sure! On a side note: I really cannot believe what I’ve seen from BBD and MC. And RF! Apart from that goal v Lazio and getting the barstripe guy off, the Left Wing has made almost no contributions this season and has done exactly the same things every time on the pitch, NOT AN UPGRADE ON Sam E verdict after 8/9 matches I’d say with some conviction! 1. BBD - get passed the ball on the left wing, try to control it then pass it back to left mid or centre mid. Stop moving, have a fag, job done for this half. 2. MC is even better as he has not scored preseason nor got a guy sent off - his touches have been - get passed the ball on the left wing, try to control it then pass it back to left mid or centre mid. Stop moving have a fag job done for this half. Oh I forgot occasionally he does this : get passed the ball on the left wing, stand up the right back, kick the ball against his legs and hope it’s a nutmeg, as it isn’t stop moving have a fag, job done for this half. 3. RF: this one is a good variation because his job is to try to win the aerial battle with his taller right back, three or four times in when Aaron delivers a 60 yard high pass, Right to left, to try and “ catch out” the opposition defence by pumping it long instead of the 12 passes in the six yard box game. Fails every time of course. His other job is to make “ darting runs” but he is not allowed to beat his player for pace or skills as that’s a fine. When he is asked to defend it’s exciting, but oh dear he’s a forward not a full back. Ask Vardy. 🤭

Arguably there are Two sides to the debate - one side points out that there are alternative ways of looking at the situation with RM even pointing out the positives and also recognises 1 point is relegation stuff- the other feels obliged not only to trash talk any alternate point of view (on auto-reply than the ( Russell is shit) but also -and this is a clear distinction - to load up with abuse disrespect and invent new terms of insult for the poster. Let alone deliberately misread posts. Those who do that just get away with it time after time. By resorting to personal abuse and insults like you mostly all do I know ( and you know) that you have got no argument - abuse and word violence is not a discussion. Many of that ilk seem massive keyboard warriors ~ quick to hurl off insults from the safety of your devices but I’d guess in real life you’d never say what you say to anyone’s face. I guess in that sense it’s a home for cowards, and there’s obviously a lot out tonight all eager to gang up on anyone who cares to voice an opinion that is not “ Russell is shit”. Enjoy rest of the nights moans. The only thing makes you happy gets you excited is moaning about RM. Quite a sad state of affairs don’t you think.

Sry mate I know you are a massive long term fan but your argument does not work on multiple levels for me. 1. relegated teams are always amongst the favourites to get promoted. With a Manager who knows how to get up from that league we’d be even more favoured. Without the instability of managerial/ personnel and style overhaul even more favoured. Not rocket science. 2. the system RM uses DID work in the championship and were it not for ridiculously once in many many moons form from the other three we’d have walked the league. A record unbeaten run and if you think it was because the rest of the teams were poor - well it’s the championship - that’s the standard we have to be able to beat. And we did enough. 3. We did not abandon PB football and get promoted accordingly. Russball put us in the position to get promoted. It’s the other way around but not for diehard RM out people I guess. We put more defenders on the pitch for Leeds and WBA - 5 at the back - but if you were at Wembley ( I’m sure you were) you might have noticed a I think 15 pass move for our goal from defence to attack before AA scores. That is exhibit 1.01 classic totally recognisable Russball. And THAT is a fact. We still passed the ball around them like they weren’t there and when it works - as per AA in the Final Playoff- it’s a thing of great beauty that we are all proud of.

I think that your conclusion is correct - that RM is for staying. I still do not get why so many people expected us to be EPL level overnight. And seem so angry that we are not. Are they all unable to just think ahead a bit and see what the likeliest scenario was for us and take some deep breathes and get on with this learning curve? It took Sir Alex Ferguson 7 seasons to win the league for Man Utd, which is 6.75 years more than many here are prepared to give RM. IF RM and Saints learning curve is too slow and too shallow for sure we are relegated. We may already be. But if anyone thought this was an unlikely scenario whichever manager whichever formation we played- well I think they may have been overconfident -and unaware of the reality of statistics on the survival chances of newly promoted teams. Is he trying to do something spectacular? I think yes. Is he just trying to survive- I think no. Is that inspirational or is it stupid? I prefer to consider it extremely daring- and yes, courageous because he knows it’s odds against and still refuses to give up. but foolish? Yeah foolish at same time especially the amount pathetic and disgusting abuse he has to endure from some of you., I think the likeliest outcome is we will go down - but get better and better at playing this way so it may be closer than people suppose at the end. If we change manages, style, personnel- my opinion is we will just go down and it’s a toss up if we keep the new guy in the championship- and wether we can regroup to come back up. Whereas I’d like to think if RM took us down with what he and team have learned in two seasons we’d be hot favourites to get promoted and have a better stab at the EPL next time. Thats what I think. Wail away moaning Millie’s.

Yup my dreams are flawed. Guilty. Of being an optimist. I’d love Saints to win the World Club championships in my lifetime. Sry for wishing that,I know it will invite the usual posters to personally abuse me. But cannot account for ignorance and it’s there problem not mine. I still believe we can overcome the system that keeps clubs like Saints ( and many many others) in their place. But unlike the vocal critics on here I don’t think it will happen by essentially playing the game by their rules and their way. There are more than a few Managers out there who could “ do a job” of keeping us in the EPL. They know how to gameplay the Premier league to extract the maximum points that more limited budgets can handle - and can give you a chance of staying up. Moyes is a class act and could do it probably easy for instance. For one season or five or ten - but we surely all know by now that it needs a long term plan to get up there and stay there - because the likes of Man City Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Man Utd don’t get relegated anymore. It’s going to be one of the others. Including Saints. Unless our structure and foundations are super deep. Getting to the dizzy heights of 7th is the best we can hope for given past history otherwise - but since then the gap between the super clubs and us has only widened. So even that’s a “dream”. FWIW : We have a squad of mostly average and below average EPL standard players. Tyler and Aaron are not one of those but the rest - average at best, frankly, and that’s not being disrespectful- just objective. Our Manager knows almost zero about EPL management. Winning with these players and manager without being radical in your tactical approach -well the chances are slim to none because virtually every match home and away most of the opposition are favourites to win at the bookies. But - play radically get beaten - people getting angry to paraphrase The Specials. Play conventional and stay in your lane - and in your place - and still get beaten- fans still angry. There’s no incentive is there. But at least the first option we are fighting not just to survive but to thrive. And that’s the difference.

I watch saints with pride every time they play with honour belief courage. Couple of matches this season that was not present otherwise yeah they are not a joke to me - quite the opposite.

One two or three teams are going to win the league, the cups and all the medals. The rest are playing to be 4th loser or beaten finalist or not relegated or got £3m extra cos we gained a place on final day. Thats the most likely reality this EPL season. And It was always very likely Saints were playing for “ not getting relegated” or at best “ got a few million extra by gaining a place on some other EPL “make up the numbers “ team. There’s about 14 make up the numbers teams in EPL and they just rotate each year for the most part. Unless an Arab sovereign wealth fund buys you or a major hedge fund ( and even then FFP is a bitch) it’s now almost impossible to breakthrough. So- all those pragmatists out there - I admire your stoic acceptance of this status quo, but forgive my naive idealism in hoping and believing what RM has got going - which everyone seems to criticise - is our only shot at making Saints a superpower. Whenever I see and hear so many fans and football pundits indignant at what RM is doing it just reassures me that the powers that be don’t like it and dont want us to succeed. Change play like the rest of the losers and maybe we too can make up the numbers or get to be a “ beaten finalist” once every decade. I’m glad we are currently firmly set on not doing that. We are going for the big prize- or die trying. But at least it’s a honourable death not a lickspittle existence hanging around the lower reaches of the EPL for crumbs from the big boys. So I say, Carry On PBF Russell and ignore the critics. Even Pep has intimated and said as much. I Hope it’s a wonderful match today and sry I can’t be there with our loyal, and passionate, away fans. 😇

Just supporting saints the odd 52 years or so been to one or two matches in that time only been ejected once and never involved in any reported disorder offences as far as I know, apart from invading the pitch at Elfsborg I think it was on a preseason tour once. Think the site owner was with us on that little Scandinavian away trip matter of fact. Perhaps my naivety is not so much naive as someone who does not consider our style as “pound shop total football” and someone who recognises that in the absence of being able to helicopter in the best players in the world this attempt to persevere at getting better at this style making average players better as a team than the sum of their parts is pretty much our only route to long term success. Oh, and that much derided term “ courage” - it’s effing courageous to keep on trying in the face of the amount of shit he and team gets from our own fans. If he was chicken shit cowardly he would be long gone. Long may he stay. The longer he is here the more likely we are to break the code to winning games. That’s my view not yours and many here stm. I hope I’m right you are wrong but I accept maybe I’m just hopelessly positive. Naive even. Always will support saints whatever position whatever league though.

You think they might be? Of course they are not. You believe it’s shit tactics that’s why we are second bottom. Fine. Not going to even try argue that with you as clearly you e convinced yourself that only sacking Russell will make us avoid relegation- or worse - what is “ worse” by the way? Going into liquidation? Getting best 9-0 every week? Being uncompetitive every single match? Moving RM before “ it gets even worse” … hahahaha Our best bet is to hope that this comes good eventually second half of season and a dynasty and style is irrevocably instilled into this club. If it takes a few relegation/promotion-relegations to do it better that than we join the rat race.

Predict Tyler will be replaced by Fraser early doors. He is having to mark Madvidi in defence down there left and is already on a yellow. Sensible to let Fraser do the running ( and fouling of Madvidi who is a decent player) for that.

Unbelievably , another goal for Everton or Saints and we are out the bottom three! of course this signals an Ipswich and foxes come back…damn should have kept my mouth shut… At least the atmos ar SMS is much more upbeat than I was thinking it might be whatever the score. I really did not want to attend in case it got truly horrendous but Glad I’m here and made the effort to support the team in this big match.

And all last season btw. If he is fit he HAS to start, contract status bollix or not.

Yup I agree. Make it £4m then. Or whatever number you like. It’s a number though for sure. Whatever it is - it’s money could be spent on better players not the bloke who watches them play.

Sounds logical but only a small handful of likely candidates would consider such a deal. I think only a manager ( or actually wannabee) with already loadsa money but maybe a massive ego and or desire to build a rep as a new young manager would take that on. Frankie Lampard springs to mind. Probably a millionaire ex or even current footballer I’d imagine it might suit. Like AL perhaps. He stands out as caretaker material anyways and would be cheap. 😁. Would not expect to see style of our football change nor relegation prospects either though from any such a move. Can’t see that causing celebrations in this forum. Much the same if we brought in Carlos Foreignmanager after his successful stint in Portugal or similar. No, I’m sure there’s many making the case for Gareth or whoever as our next manager if he’s sacked but if it’s NOT Potter or Moyes I don’t think there’s a party. And I don’t think either fancy the hassle..

Long post. Turn away now if this is too much. The summary version is : sacking RM is expensive and I don’t think it will happen. Longer version: Not been mentioned, yet, but there is a significant financial reason why I don’t think he will be sacked. I’m sensing a bunch of “ staying in the EPL is worth £ xyz millions so if we have to blow £xx millions now it’s worth it “ type of thinking going on. Except blowing £xx millions has not got any guarantee of us staying in the EPL at all and the greatest betting probability at the bookies is that with RM - OR WITHOUT- we will still be relegated. But in the case of ditching him We’d not only be relegated - but in all probability both fucked financially AND relegated. How’s that? For a start it’s not just Russell but probably 7 or 8 other colleagues of his who also would likely leave or be replaced by the incoming new managers team of coaches, analysts, physios etc Paying up 2.5 years to those is going to cost multi millions. Buying a GOOD new manager will cost maybe £5-£10m. You get what you pay for. Getting a cheap one is surely not an option? If you gonna sack our existing cheap option and your track record with cheap options has been terrible are you just going to go all Groundhog Day again by putting in Nathan Jones mk2? You’d hope not…maybe there is a GOOD unemployed Manager perfect for Saints out there - But of the two most likely that spring to mind neither Moyes nor Potter are interested. If they are any good, like Zlatan once famously said -( paraphrased) - SFC really? they are not going to drop to Saints level. Next: Vincent kompany got sold by Burnley to Munich for £10.2m ~after relegating them.😂. Not saying Russell is worth £10.2m to some other team but paying up those contracts AND foregoing his sale end of season is a double hit. And seems utterly bonkers. if the likelihood is you are going down either way why would you not keep the financial cushion of at least being able to flog the gaffer like Burnley did? So the itinerary goes something like this for you Russell out guys : (1) Buy top new Manager ( not some unemployed c&nt who is unemployed for good reason) : c. £10m. Does that include his team ? If so add extra. (2) Pay Top new Manager Top New Manager wages and Top New Manager contract to his mates : this is obvs higher than what RM and outgoing team are being paid. God knows how much more but it will be more. And we are desperate so our hand is weak. (3) Pay off RM and his team - I’m totally guessing it’s £6m -£8m. Could be more. Maybe a bit less. (4) Do NOT collect £10M by selling him to Al Hillal or Inter Miami or some such in seven months time when we are relegated. Bonkers move paying someone to take your motor away when Webuyanycar will give you up to £10m for it in 7mths time… Thats costing well north of £20m - which is, incidentally what we did not appear to have to buy a real CF a few weeks ago…. And after all that cost and we still get relegated how about do it again - knock Top New Manager on the head ( at ludicrously high cost) but this time go with a really cheap option. OR Have fun with Top new Manager in the Championship but spend all season moaning because with Top New Manager we ought to be top of the league from match day one, leave out maybe we don’t have 75% of our better players anymore. At least we have Top New Manager and who knows, Top New way to win matches we can all enjoy. And Top New Manager is on easily highest wages in Championship even if we go down btw. That’s part of the deal. It’s really super messy fraught with extra costs we do not appear to have and with a slim chance of success ( defined as staying up) ~ about as slim as staying with RM and him turning it around but with much less drama. Anyways, thanks for reading. Hope you’ve now all changed your mind and all want to get behind RM team and squad and support them to victory. But I know that I am in a tiny minority here so no need to tell me how misguided I am etc. I think not only is it bad for saints ££ but I happen to believe RM can turn this baby around. 😂 That thought makes even me laugh!🤭

Good post and well stated. Your points are entirely valid and are more likely right than wrong. I guess I am offering an alternate explanation and trying to give as much benefit of the doubt as possible to the guy. Our timescales may also vary. Getting into the EPL to just survive year after year is not what I think SR are after. I think they are trying to create a football legacy even a brand - and that takes time and maybe even a bit of yo-yoing between EPL and Championship. Maybe, not for certain of course, they are looking at a longer time frame than just this season.

Maybe you are right. @SWLondon Saint. There’s a Good burden of proof on your side. But playing a lone central striker and then persisting by putting TP in, just one example of many, suggest our ( and RM’s) playing style may be more flexible these days. If I did not think RM could change the team and results in a positive way - and the team keeps losing - id want him out too. But he is trying everything that I think he ought to get results. He is not a one trick ball possession pony despite the still annoyingly large percentage of goals we concede from faffing around in our is area. Not sure anybody has noticed how many times Aaron chooses to longer pass to players NOT our two CB’s? Yuki tends not to faff around too much either. Just a few left to deprogramme and who knows we may have a winning team does not give teams X goals head start through mindless kamikazi play in our own area! 😁

Was always very likely to be the case whatever Manager. I try to look for evidence of rational thought, analysis and adjustment in play by RM and our team rather than just at the current results. Our (or his) rigid version of PB football is something of a red herring in that regard. If that’s what you are looking for that’s what you will find. There was next to no chopping and changing of team formations and players last year. This year there has been plenty. None of them have worked- in terms of 3 points- YET. But are there signs that it might? If you are a pessimist you can say that nope there are no signs of anything good coming out of this team this year under Russ so get rid. 1 point /22 says it all. If you are an optimist you can say some of our players are a revelation - Mateus and Tyler are already excellent, Aaron is a top goalkeeper. THB scoring at this level (!) and, last match apart, Yuki is a lovely player. Fuck, even Archer scored a proper goals on Saturday and TP can actually play football!! That’s why I’m not all doom and gloom. There’s hope and signs yet - and this bunch, under RM, might just pull it all together at some point and go in a run. Or Get relegated with record low points - either way, mediocrity is not for us! 😁

I think he is giving clear signs that he is more flexible than many give him credit for. Indeed far more flexible than during our Championship season. And do you know why? Because we were not getting beaten every week. The opposite. So there was little incentive or little need to change. Last season, until the last few matches, your point about his unrealistic philosophy ie extremely rigid focus on one style of play alone - held more water, but this season that is objectively NOT the case. If we do go down, and IF he stays, who better than a manager with relevant play off winning experience to get us back up?

I wish it were Wade. I could give up managing this poxy football club then! 😂