gio1saints

No need to apols. I guess depends on what you call choreographed. agree it’s potentially a bit cringe - All that lining up joining hands and running towards the crowd malarkey for instance IS a bit cringe. I’ve seen it done a few times mainly European teams though. But on the continent they do go in for that kind of thing a bit more- the tifo and big displays from support at some matches thing I mean. . BUT running off the pitch tails between their legs giving a token two claps towards us fans after a terrible performance is not a good look either. And I guess that’s the main thrust of what I was trying to say. If they are brave enough to obey rigid tactical orders they are brave enough to face the support at full time. If it’s worth three fist pumps for a win it’s worth a proper apology if they don’t.perform to scratch. Miltonag called it the walk of shame and there’s a bit of truth in that because it’s a big disincentive to not let that happen! We can lose playing brilliantly - and draw unluckily- but rubbish like 5-0 or 1-4 I could have done with the players staying with Russell and essentially apologising for the bad performance. I know what I’m asking is unrealistic though. It’s just to put the idea into someone’s head.

I think that’s a fair question. There’s been times when Baz will look to kick long and fast to Kamaldeen or Sam if they look isolated but in the main we do not break out at pace. With Players like Sam, Kamaldeen and KWP it’s not as if we not got fast runners in team. Going back a few decades I think Danny Wallace practically made a career at Saints out of chasing balls hit over the top and using his speed to either score or get a telling cross in.

I’m confirmed attending. Submitted my question. It’s probably irrelevant to the hate Russell mob and those of the hysterical view that saints in mid table after 11 games is literally THE END OF THE WORLD / SR is the Antichrist but for others of a more balanced disposition it pretty much goes like this ; “The relationship between you, the players, and us the supporters, is worth points each season. We love it when you come over at full time after a win and give your three fist pumps. But, when it’s not such a great result nobody comes out and the fan appreciation is a few token claps before getting away into the changing rooms. Given your heavy emphasis on personal bravery would you and squad consider facing us supporters - on the pitch - win lose or draw - after EVERY match.” It can be choreographed for a win, yeah ok with that , but team must show win lose or draw they are together with us. Running off to the changing rooms is no good. Hope to get to ask that but my reasoning is not because I don’t think players care - they do - but rather it’s try restore collective faith If as supporters our response to players and manager doing so - genuinely facing up and apologising for a bad performance - celebrating with us a win - or somewhere in the middle for a draw, is positive then I can foresee a better bond developing. That could mean points. Promotion. ePl salaries and income again. It’s worth a try

There are some interesting kind of divides happening here amongst some posters on this forum. There are some who feel Russell Martin should be given time to get the team playing and winning every game. And think there has been some progress and some improvement but it’s not been a linear process despite everyone wishing it were. And no, they are not all Russell’s fam or on the staff payroll. I think it’s still a majority. Then there’s those who thought the same but now feel time is up after 12 games ( or so) and he’s got to change it up somehow to a less trendy more winning brand of football. ( a kind of middle ground that most would not disagree with too much I’m guessing, with the exception of - Then there are those who hate the style, feel it’s failed / failing and don’t want it - period. This is a small but vocal minority who mostly realise this means change the Manager, who they secretly or not so secretly despise - which in turn means change how we play for - guess what - whatever style is favoured by whatever new manager and his crew SR get in. But wait, it gets better Rasmussen SR and co are c un ts too . Either way they can’t wait to trash talk the next guy anyways unless he wins every game straight off cos that’s how they (t) roll. It’s all rather sad actually. Nobody has a problem with booing or criticism of Russell or team - least of all him. He’s big enough and ugly enough. Criticise his bollocks off here too. But when it gets personal and nasty - like it has done both at SMS and here online- and in turn to posters “ defending” him and team - well then it slides over into unacceptable abuse. Some don't seem to know or care that there’s a difference between that criticism and that abuse. I’ve got an old MLT VHS tape somewhere and frankly it’s “unbelievable” how you’ve become blind apologists for out of order abusive behaviour . With these it’s pointless trying to discuss this distinction. Those will ( shamefully) carry on abusing RM and team if he & they don’t do what they want. And abusing normal supporters who just want to get behind the team on this forum and who are sick of the constant moaning and naysaying. Saintly regards.

I need to have a look at how Sunderland got the best out of Him - what formations they used and so on. Because IF he is asked to play in the way we ask Che to play I’m not certain we are maximising our chances of getting added value. From him vs. Che. He may convert more on his personal XG but it’s not as if currently Che ( who we have to assume he’s been bought to replace not play alongside) is being put multiple chances on a plate every match in our current style. That being the case I can see that playing RS may possibly be the foot in the door to a more direct southampton playbook. Maybe the “plan B” that RM supposedly does not have - or is it he just did not have the right cf? Not ditching possession style but accelerating it vertically more oftenmay be our next evolution. Think most saints fans be happy with that. And, As Leeds fans used to say “ feed the yak” - to me it’s clear we need to feed our Loch Ness Drogba or not much will change. * * meaning we still need to improve our goalscoring vs chances created.

This should be relatively easy to clear up. Who has access to our EG from last season compared to our EG for this one? Not being able to put ball in back of net IF our EG is higher this season as I’d expect is not necessarily a failure of the “ possession” based system but perhaps has alternate explanation- like absence of a clinical finisher/s, or our players not quite understood what to do in final third. Trying to be as objective as possible as I’m as nervy as anyone about the passing it around the six yard nonsense but it does look like our back four are getting used to the system and so are our mf….ok too slow too slow for some - but I do sense they are getting it. The final and most important piece is ball in the net. We not solved that yet nor will we until our forwards take up better central positions more often- and, crucially, our mf release ball to them quicker and, finally, they kick it in the goals not over the bar or straight at goalie. None of that points to a failure of the possession style - yet - though caveat is if our EG is lower this year of course it’s not working - - though it’s clear for many it’s a lost cause irrespective. I’m not one of those but maybe I’m more patient than most and more optimistic!

Probably Like you and probably many here I used to own “shares” in Saints back in the day. Shares that became worthless. I liked that I owned a part of the club that’s so dear to my heart and which is like family to me. I know it’s ridiculous but even allowing a small amount of fans to buy shares in SFC or holding company whatever its name is would be quite a positive thing. Not to influence anything frankly but just to have an actual physical stake in it.

Entitled to your opinion. I disagree with your description of RM as “ utter incompetence”. I disagree that Manning and Smallbone are absolute shit. I get your overall point- we need and should with this squad get wins not draws or defeats and we must start it now not next year - I thought this would be the case start of season but it’s obvious the progress has been non linear to put it mildly. BUT there is No need for calling me out as “ prick” for not following your views. if that is how you wish to denigrate our manager and our players - and fellow supporters - it’s a free country but I think it’s personally very depressing the amount of abuse Ive received on here for asking fellow supporters to moderate the abuse they give the manager and players.😳 It is endemic in society I guess to demand immediate results immediate gratification and to kickback when we don’t get it. My view,- and there are some who share this view privately but are probably unwilling to get abused by like I’ve been - is that the Manager and the squad need time. And that recent performances DO show we are getting better. You disagree. Fine. But no need for the abusive language.

Strangely, No letting a man run past you without tackle is not courage. Nobody says it is. Nor is Blindly sticking to a losing formula. But seriously Is 7/9 points a losing formula nowadays? This is yet another straw man argument I seem to have spent the afternoon asking people to not misrepresent what I’ve said. Many supposed fellow saints fans having a pop at me for having the temerity to have a different pov and actually saying abusing the staff is not on. I’m not saints staff. If you want to know who I am ask Steve Grant.

Resorting to name calling online is a common last resort of a certain type of person. And all because you disagree with my opinion on the forum. Happy to meet you for a drink and you might change your mind. I’ve supported saints over 50 years and travelled home and away a lot of games. You might be surprised at what I am like versus your ( wrong) perception.

No- yet another straw man argument. This must be some kind of virus. People who pay ££ for a ticket in the belief they are entitled thereby to verbally abuse staff who are there to service and entertain them - I call them vile customers. yiu got a problem with that? What’s your job? Want me to be a customer then Eff and blind at you for your perceived shortcomings in Front of 30,000 others? No? Nothing to do with how much we care either ( and I’m sure we both DO care) I think that an outright player and manager abusive approach - as against expressing displeasure more civilly is simply how decent humans behave. I do not enjoy a winnable match being drawn- but somehow I do not and will not stay silent whilst the baying mob shout out their grotesque hate. Especially when the performance was good in many ways - all overlooked in the blind anger. There are ways to support the team and there are people nasty shouting abuse. because we “ only” drew. As for Vile customers. Anyone who has worked in the service industry knows what I mean.

And good night to you to Mr Redarmy. 😇

Nicely put and obviously a popular pov. If I might add though, courage is also doing what your boss tells you and that you believe in despite 30,000 fans moaning at you to hit it long - and hitting it long is often the easy option let’s not overlook that - and fans giving you negative vibes for insistently on doing what you been told by your boss. Your boss incidentally who can effectively sack you by not picking you and destroying your career. Courage is RM sticking to his principles and defending his players every match - not hanging them out to dry or throwing them in front of the bus- despite the outright abuse and hostility from some customers. RM takes full responsibility which requires courage and integrity. Courshe may also be looking for that better position for the incisive pass or shot rather than cross it aimlessly into the box- something which most of our mf in particular could easily do. With a different cf it may be the better decision. But at home some of the customers want it in the box quicker. Some prefer that we develop and get better at this style and eventually master it. To infer all our players lack courage is , in my opinion, an unfair slur. It may be that some lack ulti ate commitment for known obvious reasons- but footballing courage. No I do t not think any of them would be having that if you said it face to face in a bar.

Fair argument. He really got the most out of his limited players. Im not sure that limited ambition approach will be enough to keep them up but it worked yesterday. A score line of 4-1 would not have been unreasonable however and I don’t think we would be saying that about him today. Nor would we have the emotive comments on here about how bad inflexible RM, the play, etc is. It would be all about how great 9/9 points are. Those missed chances went in against Leeds not yesterday though. Simple as that. We played better though. IMO. If you’d offered me 7 points and unbeaten from next three matches 3 games ago I think arms would be snatched off. We’d had a terrible run of defeats. Yet here we are and the sky has fallen in because we “only” drew the last match against lowly Rotherham - yet it’s obvious (but not to the haters) we are playing better. Do carry on revelling in the misery / reality as you see it/ dystopian vision of how bad we are and gonna be unless somefink changes. I’m no happy clappy fan but - and this is probably what I have in common with RM - I believe life is not a destination, following saints is not always all about the results. Quite often, in fact mostly, it’s a bunch of stuff on the journey that counts. We overlook that and just end up disappointed all the time. It’s not a coincidence. Consider what we as a club are attempting and enjoy the principles enjoy the approach the philosophy the courage required. Enjoy it for goodness sake!

I think plan A ( if such a thing actually exists) was predicated on small technical nippy forwards- false “9” etc and no need for big old fashioned cf. For me, if “ Plan b” exists it was to recruit a conventional cf to replace Che who was supposedly leaving in the transfer window ). We did that. We also did it unsuccessfully when recruiting Paul. Im not certain that this way of looking at it is all they helpful but I’m just optioning that if a plan b exists it’s already been put into motion with that recruitment. I don’t think plan b related to changing the default style of play- just the EAP if you line ( emergency action Plan) if our normal way is not working. It’s RM’s job to discern when is the time to switch plays. Currently a bit hit and Miss is the verdict - but without that new CF he does not have that option anyways.

I think plan B was to recruit a prolific goalscorer. Which is what we did. He’s not fit yet. Let him play. We needed agoal scorer two years ago!

What got us nowhere LOS was first and foremost poor finishing. We created more than enough chances using the system you clearly disapprove of yet our final ball/ shot was rubbish. Maybe my opinion on that is absolute nonsense. You do not need to agree and you don’t. That’s absolutely fair and all well and good. 😇

Goodness me. Did you even read the post I made about that??? Please do.

You might want to read my posts a little better. It helps. It seems some people are happier to post straw man arguments than actually consider what I’ve actually said. But fair enough I get it. - though the substance standard and thought that’s gone into some of this debate at present is on a par with our current finishing ie poor.

I’m not sure we would win anything without high standards. RM is attempting to get us to play a version of the style of football that currently dominates EPL and champions league football. The natural response is to say I dont care about that I just want to beat Rotherham, no excuses. I guess that’s the difference between being a student and being a teacher. Students do not learn overnight. It takes 3 years to get most degrees. Many fans like yourself do not want anything but results NOW. Who doesn’t? I think we only perhaps disagree with the way they are taught and it’s emphasis on process first and results will follow - and how long we are prepared to give the teacher before his students pass all there exams brilliantly, every time. Or get rid of the teacher and start again

I was using this as a parallel to the very high standard we are trying to attain. As I suspect you know full well. I agree that endless sideways passing g is not beautiful. I’m not aware that I claim it is. If you mean that our possession based game is too conservative at present then you have a fair and accurate point. My guess is that the players are still learning to walk rather than go straight to run hence an obvious current predisposition to the “ safer” often horizontal pass. In time I think we will see more vertical passes ( ie KWP to AA goal) to decisive areas. But we are not quite there yet. How much time will vile customers give RM I dont know but he and brave players doing what he asks despite the shit have my support.

I get what many of you are saying - especially the esteemed FF. There’s us and remains a palpable sense of disappointment from that match. My opinion is that the outcome was disappointing but I was satisfied by the by the general standard of our play - especially put into the broader context of last 18 months. More accurately I was satisfied that the style RM has installed is - gradually- bedding in . Becoming what Ralph used to call “ auto-instinct”. A long way off being what we could be but - for me- we are on the right path stylistically, and what is needed is not full scale changes but rather tweaks and the addition of a decisive CF. RM does and will make tactical mistakes - he’s no Ancelotti- but on balance his perseverance is more admirable to me than to have a constantly flip flopping non style. Pragmatic football can win games and Jose is a master of it - but the style we are attempting to play wins Champions Leagues and EPL titles and is considered the optimal current way to play the gam. And it’s a beautiful way too which is the bonus all saints fans would love to have.

As ever a wide range of reactions to the result. I’m personally sanguine but there was a lot of abuse hurled at the team , individual players and RM at the end from some around me. some here will say it’s well warranted. To those I say I respect your opinion but not the ways it was expressed on Saturday. That was out of order. My impressions from Block 41: 1. Probably our most dominant and skilful home display of the season. Some of our football was wonderful to watch. I loved the way we moved the ball up the pitch and made 15 ( I think) chances. 2. Support around me often concurring with delight at the way we finally seem to have cracked the dilly dallying on the ball around the penalty area issue - though it did resurface once or twice. 2. Canny work from the Rotherham manager to shuffle his team set up early to adapt and try to restrain us. It stemmed, but did not abate, our much more incisive than hitherto this season play. 3. Rotherham are a very limited team - relegation material imo- but this result was deserved if only for their defensive performance. Fair dos to them. 4. We failed to win due to not scoring from excellent chances. Excellent chances that in normal circumstances would be converted into goals. No one player was most at fault - they ALL misfired at the we critical moment - CA, AA, KS, SA, RF, SE all of them. 5. Any team, player or RM criticism of the performance up until shooting on goal in general is ill-conceived. Criticism of our finishing on the other hand is extremely fair- we were well below par. 6. IF we play like that every match between now and end of season we will ( surely) be putting a hatful past some opponents at some stage. And I’d guess that’s more likely away than at home as teams may feel obligated to open up a bit more when playing us at home. I can see a set of big away wins on the cards for us. 7. Kamaldeen and Sam are still Learning but both obviously ridiculously too quick too skilled for their opponents - they just need add end product ( or, frankly, have a striker to pass to after they beaten their man who just scores not misses) 8. I thought the midfield four did well. 9. Che Adams was relatively ineffective after a promising first ten minutes. I thought he would bully such teams as these but he looked subdued. 10 AA worked hard. Again. Failed to score his chance (s) (again) but still put max effort in -which is the minimum. He’s limited and not the greatest player I’ve ever seen in a saints shirt but he works his butt off so he’s ok with me. 11. Manning and KWP both had sound games. Manning in particular has to adapt because KS still does not know what to do out of possession so Manning needs curb his attacking instincts ( look at his goals and assists last season) - which is a shame because defensively he’s only average rather than good or great and I’m sure we recruited him for that rather than as a defensive player. I can see his football intelligence and experience is their though so he’s OK with me too. 12. SA was good in fits and starts he does things others don’t do- notably his direct running from midfield central areas - a bit like Charlie. Defensively they are average however. Both are very good players at this level if others can do the defending…Charlie is the more dynamic more technically skilled and has more promise and better goal instincts imo but Stu does also put a shift in which Charlie sometimes only belatedly remembers out of possession hence he seems to always be involved in flare ups due to having to be overaggressive to regain possession. 13. My personal view is that long term Shea Charles should be playing instead of Stu. I like Stu AND I know Shea, Flynn and Will are unlikely goalscorers- whereas Stus scored 2/2 but with them in midfield we will concede even fewer ( but Stus goalscoring record is sketchy overall) and with AA, KS, Charlie and our new CF to come they should take care of the bulk of the goalscoring. 14. Baz is become s fan favourite. Who would have thought it. 15. AA gave armband to Jan when he went off - NOT Che as he has done previously - the situation and implication obvious. 16. Our twin CB ‘s played well, again. That’s them set for rest of season. 17. Shout out to Rotherham’s goalie. Some simply excellent saves. He will be playing for better team shortly for sure. 18 Aribo - looked clumsy as usual but it’s difficult to get the ball off of him. It’s weird but I’d be tempted to put him in at CF sometimes as a CF so he can hold ball up a bit- Michel Antonio style. 19 Some “Supporters”abusing RM and players at full time. Disgusting. Appalling. Ignorant. Short-sighted. Anywhere else in society you behave like that to staff in public you get prosecuted. At football it’s supposedly ok. It’s not. It’s disgraceful & shameful. Aggravated by the public nature especially when in front of kids. Plus ca change. I don’t consider them supporters. Just vile customers. Saintly regards Giordano

Delighted for him and proud for Saints. I’m not sure it’s accurate to call him understudy to Messi as there are one or two other Argentinian players who might feel it’s there title but he is obviously considered one of the best 3 or 4 Argentinian players in the world in his attacking midfield/ false nine / no. 10 type position. Which is a remarkable thing for the World Champions National team! 👏.

I think this point has been put to bed recently. In summary; NO it’s not the fault of the fans. It’s RM and JW’s fault - but we would be one-eyed if we failed to give due credit in same measure if it goes right. This squad should get promoted playing whatever formation and style you can think of. They are all top footballers at Championship level - there can surely not be much unbiased dispute about that. That being the case, it’s surely a matter of HOW we get promoted. The RM playbook is considered the best long term get promoted stay promoted approach for Saints. It’s What we as supporters argue about constantly. I’d rather 3 points playing crap than zero playing Brazilian - but I want my cake and to eat it too. I’d like both , ideally, and the road to that is rocky and filled with 5-0 and 1-4 mishaps! And that’s if we even arrive!