gio1saints

Considering we were 60 seconds away from a mass uprising and release of hate on RM and team yesterday I’d say Wednesday is a must win . I cannot personally live my life holding that much anger and poison in me waiting for something as bad as “ only” a draw away to Hull- or in this case a draw or loss to Preston to give it release. I try breathing exercise or go gym or do yoga ( my wife is an instructor) or just read a book and yeah a large whiskey on occasion as an alternate safer outlet. I do understand how without access to other frustration and anger outlets that it can get like that for saints fans and maybe it’s also the safest way- online we can say and behave in ways perhaps we would not dream of in real life. I just hope our Saints support family gives itself a collective break from “ feast or famine , glory or disaster - because the reality is we are always somewhere inbetween and it’s not the destination but the journey they matters. I want us to win the world club championship in my lifetime but as long as we play - and support - with ❤️ that’s more than enough for me. We did yesterday and frankly barring some bad days have done most of season.

I don’t want to be a party pooper but it might be better for all our mental health sake if we try to temper expectations of RS. If he is a two chance one goal finisher that will be way better than what we have to date last few years. And it may take some time for him to get up to that playing with new teammates. The way we play may have to change to accommodate his skill set- or will he be asked to change to accommodate the way we play? THAT’s the question in my mind and I rather think the latter will be the answer. At present our tactics are not primarily aimed at laying the ball on a plate for the No. 9 to finish. Midfielders arriving late yes or pull backs from by-line yes- but we do not hit it long to the big number 9 ( ok at 6ft 2” he’s not massive but he’s way bigger than Che, AA and Mara) to challenge for in hope of getting second ball, or to hold up or run with or lay off to his nippy sidekick - so it’s going to be interesting - and vitally important - to see how he is utilised.

Thank you CSA 96. Glad to see yours is the most upvoted post on this thread! Rightly so. If Saints supporters who travelled all that way don’t get acknowledged win lose or draw it’s very bad. I don’t really care if RM and team do cartwheels, punch the air, juggle balls, come over and clap or do a HULK like Che - I really don’t care how as long as they definitively ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPPORT. When they do it - like yesterday - it should not be discouraged. The opposite, and your post summed it up brilliantly.

I think that closed doors friendly thing was salesmanship to suggest he was readier than he was. Martin hoped he would be involved after the International break. But he’s not played contact football yet it appears ( from the last press conference it seems) so he is unlikely to be rushed in This 3 matches in a week period. I think you are probably right in that our medical team has a tough criteria that RS is not yet up to. I’m hoping Che ( and Mara) regard this as an opportunity to make themselves undroppable (by scoring when on) as it’s clear there will only be one playing out of those three at any time - and sometimes zero if Charlie plays false 9 - which is in the playback also.

I think he said it at the beginning but it may have been in the middle. Or the end. He did say it. Honest. He was self deprecating all night. Described his football ability as “ crap” , Described his ability as a fb as “ crap” also, described playing for a “little country “ called Scotland. He can take a joke and takes the piss out of himself. When asked what’s the idea with not leaving a player up front from corners he says with a big smile “ i don’t really know” let’s ask xyz ( our Swedish set piece guy who was very good btw). Nobody likes arrogance. But my impression is that he’s honest, committed and passionate. Obstinacy Is his middle name but he’s articulate in his beliefs. Maybe the all- black outfits look he wears is a little Silicon Valley or TED talk like but if all I got is critiquing his clothes…

Lord D, Post of the week! 😍 RM stood up the other night and expressly said it was his fault no excuses. He showed where it had gone wrong and why, and what he was doing about it. Not in the form of “pony management waffle” ( excellent term of derision btw) but with straightforward English and some videos. Oh and he used a laser pointer thing- THAT was pony granted. But the explanation ( NOT excuse) was, in my opinion, reasonable. Returning to “Pony management waffle” though. I’m sure if you told Lego head ( not sure that’s all that funny but it’s not bad I guess and it’s got a certain ring to it) about your description of his explanation as pony management waffle he may well agree with you. He seems that kind of bloke. Ask him yourself - bet you he agrees!

Brilliant. I must have the MLT one!

I personally thought Ralph was a good appointment. And for a good while it was a blast. I personally thought Jones was worth supporting though iffy but we took a chance and fucked it up. Selles was a non recruitment stop gap move. Russell has shown already he has good qualities. And some he needs improving in. But it’s hardly fair to describe it as a “cycle of shit” unless you have a very glass half empty outlook. Your solution of sack everyone and replace them has not really worked to date. Maybe sacking Ankersen and Russell ( I presume JW must go as well) and getting in replacements for all of them is a better bet than actually giving the team more time than - what you reckon he should have gone after the Leicester result - what’s that 8 matches in?😂 Do you realise what you are saying? If the new manager is not brilliant within 8 games he must go not only him the whole lot above him. I think Dark Munster you must be a having a giraffe with me. 😄

Fair point. And sorry for previously using the condescending term “breaking news” - it was kind of cheap and disrespectful. Soz. My response : RM & friends has had to teach our club a whole new system. Dozens of players plus the back up teams. All over the last whatever weeks it’s been. IF we don’t go up or if we DO go up I believe we will lose players. BUT, and this is the main point- only the replacement players we getin would need teaching the new way - not the whole club once more. And, to be clear, I believe we will need more new players to learn it whether we go up or not - for reasons already stated. That is the nub of the response to you. Staff turnover is not as bad a boogeyman as you might think- we have to engineer it in as a given win lose or draw anyways. We would not be back in a “perpetual cycle.” Unless by that you mean the one in which we develop great players then sell them to top six. That’s a perpetual cycle I reckon! Caveat: As long as there is a plan and a process in place. I will not be shy in calling JW or RM out if they change the rules of the regime halfway - but to date I think our best bet is to give our players and our manager as much encouragement as we can.

With all due respect to all the above people stating that if we do not get promoted we will lose all our best players / team. That’s so true I don’t know why it keeps getting repeated. BUT it is also true that Saints ALWAYS lose our best players/ team - win lose or draw. Season after season. Let us not try to pretend Saints have not been a selling club like everyone else the last twenty years - or that if the price is right and it suits then we sell anyone. It makes not one iota of difference what league we are in. Whether we are top ten EPL or mid table Championship. Watching some of you belatedly, Frantically, worrying about something that’s been happening for decades at Saints but somehow giving it a 2023 twist to suggest it’s now the reason we MUST go up this season is grasping at straws. Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period. I get we are frustrated and want wins and want promotion. But frightening ( or trying to frighten) us with the doom and gloom of “losing our best players” if we don’t is a pretty feeble excuse of an argument. Guess what? If we win all our matches rest of this season I think we are going to get promoted but, sadly, lose all our best players - sound familiar??? We been doing it forever.

Weird or not here goes: The opposite of “ it takes tIme ” is “ results now”. Give or take. The biggest gripe seems to be we will not go up and lose all our players if we carry on this path. There’s no clear alternative solution favoured atm but it’s as clear as day that those who want it now don’t think the style suits SFC ( it does suit our owners obviously - it’s really them it does not suit ) JW and RM have set out their position on that. We are not ditching the process but are amenable to tweaks is the gist of it. Anything other than that you guys are saying JW and RM OUT but dont feel courageous enough to come out with it - yet. IF you look at it logically then from your perspective it can only mean one thing. RM and JW must go. It follows that unless SR change the style that they too, must go. Replacing what would be our fourth manager in 18 months and 5 in 18 might seem a better option than the path we are currently in But, weirdly, I respectfully disagree. I think that’s guaranteed to further unsettle club and support.

Did anyone ask the manager exactly how patient we have to be? When should we start seeing consistent results from this footballing master plan? Thats a great question at the heart of the debate we are having on this forum right now- and no doubt on the terraces of SMS and at Hull shortly. Despite some of the acrimony theres no question all sides on this discussion only want Saints to do well. So we have a common goal in mind 100%. When by thought? The major difference, I suggest, is that after 11 games some have seen enough. Patience is finite. Whereas others do not have such a definitive number of games or points number in kind. Neither are “ wrong” . NB. my caveat is abusing the team& manager ( v legitimate criticising)- ditto abusing those who defend the team and manager ( v debate criticising) - both are disgraceful. Im in the “ do not have a definitive number of games or points” camp. And I DO understand those who can argue that this is dangerously stupidly madly wrong. Last season was a right mess. Indeed the last few years were very disappointing. But NOBODY could accurately judge how long it was going to take to dig out all the obvious decay, standards depreciation and general depression within Southampton Football Club. NOBODY could accurately judge how the restart would execute, how long it would take for minds to clear, players to leave, new to start, for new positive thinking to take root and flourish. NOBODY - despite what any footballing business plans SR might produce - and no matter how desperately we saints supporters want it all yesterday We as supporters are brilliant at endlessly deluding ourselves that we are all ok if we win on Saturday or all terrible if we do not. Id prefer we concentrate on getting the last vestiges of fear anxiety and depression out of our club ( that’s Russell’s job) replaced with positivity clarity of thought and a coherent style of football ( that’s Russell’s job too). GET that right and we will start winning games playing brilliant football. Doing it in a sustainable way even better. (That means not needing to buy big fee players but developing them ourselves). IF that happens we don’t need worry so much about “ when by” as the points and results and promotions and supporter happiness accordingly will all come. BUT for those that insist - I think k at least one season. I want to judge on how the club is evolving in a holistic way - yes ultimately points- but I just think that there is VALUE in stability after all the rubbish we’ve been through. Time itself is a great healer. Trying to force it and getting angry when it’s not at the pace we’d like- well that’s no doing our health any good nor frankly helping players perform. Anxiety is the enemy- for fans AND players. All support can do really to help is - encourage.

Which is exactly what he said. In fact he showed us detailed video clips from that match showing precisely how badly we were fannying around with the ball in a congested central middle third of the pitch in 2nd half. The players were told specifically at HT and also those who came on, to move up a gear and switch the ball wide and quicker - because it was obvious R were just blocking the centre and we often had a wide man in space - which we could clearly see from the multiple video clips was the case, yet we seemed to be happy passing it around aimlessly. He put that down to complacency - which is his fault- but also fear. Fear of making the dangerous pass with higher risk of failure instead of the “ safe” pass that retains possession but does not hurt them. He repeated that it’s his job to encourage the players to play without fear so it’s his fault if they played “safe” when he expressly has asked for more bravery. And he said against any opponent 1-0 is dangerous and so it proved. He did not hide behind stats but he just let us be aware of them - Apparently Rotherham had an xg of 0.12. The boss of the footie stats data company that sends RM the stats every week even phoned him to say that Rotherham lose that match 98 out of 100 times, not that’s any consolation. Rotherham’s best midfielder touched the ball 10 times in the entire match. And so on. It was a freak. But in football it can happen and the players have all ( except Che and Stu) been shown the videos of the match to show what went wrong - as Individuals, in their “ units” and as a squad. The belief is that this meticulous, extensive, learn from our mistakes and work/train hard on it process - and the set piece specialist recruitment is another example- will bear fruit sooner rather than later. And is it Jam tomorrow? Yeah course it is. Anyone offering you instant results is a conman. Or a politician.

Fabrice, EVERYBODY knows you don't play inverted full backs 3 days after a 5-0 away drubbing. It’s a Xmas tree formation of course and then that’s always followed by straight 442. Don't you know anything about professional football???Duh. 😂😂😂. Honestly, the watertight antipathy towards RH and JW - and by inference even those trying to make objective sense of it - cannot be healthy for posters here? RM seems to laugh it off and expects it - though nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition to paraphrase Monty Python. I think as long as it’s fair criticism - meaning not abuse which sadly IS the default approach of some - then he’s big enough to take it on the chin. He sticks up for himself - so some call him arrogant. He admits obstinacy is an Achilles heel for him. He has footballing ideals so some call him an idiot or dreamer, he has passion and can articulate it - so some hate him for daring. He played for Scotland - say no more! He basically walked up with a target on his jumper and said I’m here to get hammered if you want and or please allow me to explain the what and the why first if I may. The arrogant prick talking to us like a civilised human being. How dare he!!!😂😂😂

Now now Saint Garett. That’s far too obvious for anyone who bothers to actually research the comparison. We both play the same way now so we should get the same results. Playing differently before under Jones and Selles and Ralph is just an excuse. So you are obviously a Club plant . You should change your name to Saint Turnip of Saint Begonia. 😂😂😂

Ok. Another one: This by RM to help refute the Gav is pony thing ( which admittedly I think has toned down a lot in last few games) . Gavin was NOT at fault for the Rotherham goal contrary to some supporter perception. In that exact situation it was the job of the CB to head the ball back to him. Gav came forward for precisely that- as he is supposed to do - but the header ( from TEB) did not materialise. KS was “ knackered “ by the time of the Rotherham match. Three starts in a week was probably too much for him as he still rehabilitates and gets to full fitness. RM stated he had never ever coached a player like KS in his entire managerial career. So there’s an element of the unknown there. That can be good AND bad - as we’ve seen already this season. But What the team try to do is to engineer it so that KS can be one on one- not that he has to dribble past 4 or 5 to score like v Liverpool. He obviously is regarded as a high value “special” talent. Think most would agree with that but was interesting to hear some background on him.

Fair enough. Yes it was a PR exercise. Public Relations is not ALL about lying to customers in order to keep them buying your product/ service/ narrative though 😁 JW in particular emphasised that supporter connection was a vital element in the process. RM said fan connection was easy when you win - we dont care how bad we play as long as we got 3 points- but that when results go badly he expects to “ get hammered” called an “arrogant prick” and so on ( his own words). So he and JW were discussing the tactics and situation that we were seeing and essentially said why not share this with the support somehow so maybe they will have greater understanding for the scale and scope of what’s being attempted. And with that understanding maybe confidence emerges or faith or reassurance. The opposite of hopelessness anyway. Hence the “ PR” fan forum strategy meeting. He gave a telling story about his last match after 7 or 8(or 9) years as captain of Norwich I think it was when he was booed by his own fans. In his final match. So he gets that some support dont care about anything other than the 3 pts here and now. Totally gets it. And not got a problem with it. Just wanted to inform that there was purpose - and proper decent footballingideals - behind everything. He just wants us to play beautiful winning football. Not slowly not “down the channels” but in the most highly regarded style that is in use by the best English teams right now, Our goal is to get as good as they. But sustainably because we cannot buy Foden, Grealish, Stones etc.

If anyone has a specific question and I heard JW or RH answer it I’m ok with a polite DM. It is v difficult as an audience member trying to explain why they are doing what they do to this forum without sounding like an apologist ie excuse maker for not being top of the league by now. What I can assure you is that I came away feeling reassured by it. Those guys are trustworthy honest and honourable. Frankly good fair decent saints guys I’d have a pint with anytime.

It was advertised on the club website - tickets cost an £3 donation to the Saints foundation. And I think ST holders got first dibs. There was no pre-selection of attendees. 250 people were there. If the “ same” people seem to attend these events maybe they just like turning up to these things or care enough about the club to make the effort to find out for themselves, from the horses mouth, what’s going on in Saintsland. The questions asked from the floor were all pretty insightful / good imo and not sycophantically worded or “planted”. Given all that it was certainly a PR exercise. But Saints are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Given the obvious support base disgruntlement at the results it was the right thing to do imo. Neither RH and JW were hiding and both took 2 solid hours out to explain, face to face and often in minute detail, the thinking, the actions, the processes, the statistics, the player feelings, their own feelings and so on. Many ( all ) anecdotes used to flesh out the responses were first time I’d ever heard or known of. just one example: Day one someone was late to training. RH is not a fan of fines. He prefers running. So the whole squad do a punishing run. Second day someone was late. So the whole squad had to do a punishing run. Day 3 Jack Stephens ( and remember JWP was still captain at the time) went to speak to RH about it and there was a group discussion amongst the players. Result: discipline enforced, team support for each other, accountability and back up for each other reinforced, JS obvious captain and squad leader credentials exposed. Many similar stories.

Nope. There were lots of references to different players in different ways - including an astonishing (if accurate) statistic about the number of squad players out of 31 at the start of season who indicated to RH they were considering leaving. But nothing about Ross.

Only just back but took copious notes and in particular listened Intently to what was being said by JW and RM , and how they said it - especially their body language. im writing the full stuff up for saintlist but im sure there are plenty others from this forum who were there and can report. My summary is : WOW. Impressive command of the subject, from all three speakers ( including our Swedish set peice coach). We were shown and talked through multiple slides multiple real game video situation analysis and tons of background info on the whole spectrum of attack, defending possession , set pieces, Psychology training set ups, inverted wi g backs, false nines, the role of flair players, Gavins roles, the younger ones coming through - the works. Kenzi was the compère and there were at least one pre sent in question and one from the floor question from five different popular topics. The crowd responded and both she and they were very good. I will comment later on specifics if anyone’s interested or go read it in the Saintslist.m or on saints website tomorrow no doubt. Saintly regards, Giordano.

Getting the best out of Sulemana - and Charlie- may well be the key to promotion. I do not really care what formation or tactical theory we play as long as we give those two the ball as often as possible. And defend stoutly. That should be enough at this level. Was’nt our tactic once to just give the ball to le tiss and everyone else work your butts off to stop the oppo scoring? (Pub quiz : which manager precisely?) Im not comparing KS & Charlie with MLT but they are all “ difference makers” - in the first two cases we should preface difference makers with “ potential” as MLT was obviously proven outstanding whilst those two , and to alesser extent Sam and Amo are all full of potential but not really done much consistently excellent of note - yet. 🙏

Yup I’d say so St Clark - and I don’t think many could realistically disagree too much But I’d imagine most would also agree that mastery - that means a consistently high level of proficiency in the “ possession game” this case - of anything new takes time. How long other teams take / took to master a system is only a guide- not gospel. Our manager, players and the whole context is unique. Some parallels absolutely - but our situation is our situation- not Leicester or Brighton’s, Perversely I’d expect the younger players to pick up our “ possession “ based game quicker than the older ones but all the same it takes time and for each it’s different. If I had to point my finger at what I thought was one main invisible but major contributory factor for our poorer performances this season ( the bad losses I mean) it would be that,: under pressure, they’ve mentally cracked and reverted to playing like a team used to getting beaten and relegated - and all of a sudden they cannot run pass tackle or shoot even open their mouths at anything like the level we know they are capable of. I know. a bit about Sports Pyschology, and professional sports management and Russell’s hardest job is not teaching them to how to pass a ball better - it’s getting the players to totally believe in their own ability.. It’s incredibly hard when 32,000 people are going g to dissect your every mistake. But it marks out the average:good from the great. And why I seem so obsessed on getting our crowd to fully support what the players are trying to do- even when they fuck it up,

You may well be right Alex. It’s a cynical world. If I was a player I’d know where my bread was buttered but I’d also be smart enough to keep my private opinions of some supporters to myself or private groups. What makes some of the support and probably them the players so cynical is that it’s either feast or famine. One bad performance away from being called a c un t out there or one good performance away from three fist bumps to the Northam. Maybe we close that gap a bit introduce little bit more trust and even more unconditional support - but in return get delivered performances and if not then at minimumgenuine remorse and proper apology from Manager and the team

It’s actually a lot deeper than that Alex. The question strikes right at the very heart of the “ bravery” heading that RM wishes our team to abide by. IF our performance is inadequate then what usually happens is they get off the pitch fast as possible. Then in interview online or on tv RM or a player will say sorry we will try harder / do better/ stat faster- keep our heads up next time. And rinse and repeat. When we win it’s the fist bumps which we respond to loudly and positively. My question - and it’s a follow up which I will not post here - is that The players after poor match may well get behind closed doors bollockings from RM. RM himself may be getting behind closed doors bollockings from his boss (es). Bollockings from the fans happen at the match - some abusive and out of order - others fair criticism. But it all can fester for weeks in international breaks like this. If the players & RM were able to show more connection to the support more often - and we believed it was genuine not token - and especially after a bad match when we need it most - then I hope the overall atmosphere at SMS and away might improve. Better atmosphere will help us win more matches. Players will get EPL salaries next year. Everyone including players and RM suck it up and get the support onside is my message.