gio1saints

Yup. This is about our level.

Yup true. I went to Eastleigh for the preseason ( infamously Adam Lallana injured himself in the warm up…a portent of his future availability..) and was reminded of that different vibe you mention. Even so, the Eastleigh want to be the next team to “ make it” into the big time. I will still pay to watch and retain my ST but I see little point for many today to bother with SFC. It’s become just a generic EPL/Championship football club on a Sisyphean mission ultimately ending in failure. What are the redeeming features? Are there any outstanding principles associated ( and valid) with Southampton FC anymore? I just completed one of the SFC questionnaires and I swear you could cut and paste any football team into the questions they are all so meaningless. It’s like let’s pretend we have a unique identity when in fact it’s obvious we do not. It’s all the same just different shirt colours.

Football has had its heart and soul eviscerated over the last three decades. Only the older supporters know what it was really like back in the day to go to watch your team play, home and away. Compared to the supporter experience today it’s chalk and cheese. Is it worse? Is it better? Some of it is certainly better - I don’t miss the violence, though it’s still there, I don’t miss being near crushed to death on open terraces either. But what I do miss is the hope that the matches Saints play actually mean something - not just more £££ to the latest round of club owners and media oligarchs milking the game dry of everything that was beautiful about it. Not having to pay £60 for a crappy nylon shirt when before anything in red & white & black stripes would do. You support a football team today you are basically a tool. Being used. And yet some of us cling onto the memories of what it was before. God knows what younger generations (under 30/40’s) see in this spectacle nowadays. Multi Millionaires chasing a ball in a ground owned by multi millionaires filmed by multi millionaires wearing shirts and equipment owned by multi millionaires. The only poor saps are those actually watching the damn @ game@. I’ve got my excuse cos I know what it used to be like but relatively new “Saints fans” Have you asked yourself what is it that you are actually supporting?

You can buy a four course meal ( chips, a sausage, more chips, nice snickers bar) with an alcopop from Poundland get a bus there and back and still get enough change out of that £5 in Preston to pay the leccie meter. It’s £10 to park your car within a mile of SMS…Cannot charge less than the St Mary’s freelance car parking entrepreneurs / dodgy peeps I reckon.

Goodness knows what ABK has to do to get a start. All I can think of he is going to play v Burnley by which time it’s too late. Or maybe he is going to play for rest of season. We know Jack Stephens limitations but he got on the pitch no problem for Ivan yet ABK must feel like Johnny no mates. A wealthy Johnny no mates I might add getting paid a shedload of money each week NOT to play. And that grates. Trying to sell a player who reputedly has a shocking attitude is twice as hard when he does not even play reserve team. If he cannot get on when all our CB’s are crocked it really does not look good. Getting a valuation on him is like pick a number time. Is it his potential? What he did three years ago? Can we really believe he is so bad neither RM nor Ivan will touch him yet he is still sellable ? Only the most desperate will even try to do it. If he was at a French Club I’ve no doubt Saints would be signing him at 22.59 tonite though! We cannot even give him away it seems. Wotchagonnado ???

It's a nuanced point but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Given that some/ too many of the players are showing themselves not up to EPL standard in either RM or IJ style it seems obvious that the best time to start building a team of players who may be able to both get us out the Championship AND compete at EPL is not next season, but frankly, now. Having to ditch all our currently EPL players then recruit a whole squad of new players just to get out the Championship, and then ditch 90% of those as well as they will ( on current evidence) be unlikely to be competitive in the EPL is a horrific prospect. Makes what Forest did look reasonable. Basically do not bother getting any players name on your new shirt cos there's hardly any chance they will be with us more than a season if we go up. This can be moderated a little if we start the clear out now and only replace with players that (a) will be able to do what they told to get us out the Championship and (b) have got the potential to compete at EPL level. Agents are rubbing their hands at SFC.....gone are the days you could recite a team from such and such a season...

Saints transition in style is obviously a work in progress but I sense Juric feels it will be ultimately more winning than losing - certainly at Championship level next season. Hence his ongoing optimism about his own and Saints future. In retrospect, the intense scrutiny the EPL handed us and the extreme dogma of RM’s style rules meant Saints had to play the perfect game for 100minutes+ to win a match - or lose - and often lose badly. Many here predicted the collapse but others, myself included, applauded the idealism - especially in such a corrupt closed shop arena as professional football. Under Juric we can now seemingly win and compete without having to look great in doing so. Before we could ONLY win or compete if we looked like peak Barcelona or Man City. It gave us some beautiful team goals and moves - but the intense high players and Manager got when it went right now looks akin to a heroin addict chasing after that sensation they got from their very first fix. It was 99% a suicide mission. I can totally understand why footballers and the Manager and the club would want to play that way though. I can also see why supporters like myself respected the idealism and absolutism. It makes our players our team our club look like football Gods when it works. Playing the beautiful game beautifully must be the ultimate feeling for a pro- even for amateurs. Juric style is more like just old fashioned hard work. It’s not a mission it’s not a cause it’s just roll up your sleeves and be a professional footballer not a demigod. And it’s been effective for years with many teams. Not ground breaking with the quality of players we have at present but Juric should be good enough to get us straight back up next year if he gets the players he wants after the expected end of season fire sale. Im pleased for Ivan and I’m intrigued by the Burnley match now. Big clue as to how we will do next year coming up!

Main reason I’m going is to exactly evaluate that. Swansea was a clue but Burnley even better. If we can match and or outplay Burnley ( assuming they put out a decent side) it should be a reasonably good indicator of our prospects for next season. I currently expect us to outplay them and win albeit I also expect Burnley to play their reserve team so the result may be not quite as relevant.

To all those thinking we should “ keep” players who are proven anonymous / rubbish at EPL level for another season just in case they are world beaters at championship level maybe consider the implications. This means, should they actually perform as hoped, that in a years time, and SR learn the lesson, that we need dump ALL of them in order to get players who CAN actually perform at EPL level. Strikes me that if Saints want me to renew my ST then watching the dead men walking of our first team trying to get promotion does not sound all that vfm to me nor all that fun nor is it contributing to future proofing us for the EPL. Sadly, Nottingham Forest are the template for how to game the system atm. If you trying to build a team to compete in the EPL but they have to get out the Championship first then the thinking seems to be that you need virtually two different teams altogether. Soend all season getting behind a team and a manager, with a mission, and then, when you fulfil the mission, sack them all off, appoint a David Moyes type and sell all the players to be replaced by Giorgio Scorragoal, Bernard Assistmachine and Angelo Maimforwards. The gap is ever widening. IF we go up next season expect at least 75% departures and same incoming to our squad. It’s effing crazy almost impossible to work out who or how or what in the context.

The buy him and loan him back to saints story looks like a planted by agent(s) story to me. Just as likely to be Man Utd or Arsenal or a PSG ( yes he may surprise and go to a giant club - he does have a bit of the zidane- like body to hold the ball and fluidly move..) Spurs have got a bit more on their minds than buying a£50m teenager then not using him this season I’d say. Can imagine the uproar - Would be a not very spurs fan friendly move in current climate no matter how good everyone knows Dibling is. I personally think he is ultimately going to be on a playing quality and transfer fee par with a certain English player recently went to Madrid and was/is very successful. Put him in the RM team and he would shine imo. Which means £50m would look cheap. * * Dortmund paid Birmingham c £30m for Bellingham in 2020-21 Real Madrid paid £113m to them for him in 2023. Current transfermkt estimated value aged 21: £180m! Was Bellingham a better teenager than Tyler?

Leeds lost all their good players last year but are still top of the championship this year. We will lose all our good players at season end ( or this window!) but given the massive gap between EPL and Championship I’m still more than confident we will be good enough to be amongst the best six again next year - whatever style we play under whatever manager. Thats not the issue for me. I’m just so confused by it all. The BIG issue for me is that there’s no sure fire way of knowing who will or will not make it up a level. I thought THB would look a natural and look at least average at EPL - but he’s not been outstanding has he? James Bree looked terrible last year but Saturday his crossing was excellent and I thought he looked the part. I mean, wtf is going on? Downes looks shite but Manning is now a bright spark? Joe Aribo was a bench player but now he is a first name in MF? Sulemana is duff but is now not duff! Armstrong is a goalscorer now he’s a waste of space ? What’re alga’s TP been? Where the hell has our other centre forward gone- and Larios? What is Adam Lallana doing playing 4 minutes every week? I thought he was our genuine quality player? Tyler Dibling has to dribble past three players to give himself a chance to shoot. Wtf are the rest of the team doing watching him? Why not help him? How can Archer touch the ball only 6 times in a match - he makes invisible man look conspicuous. And what happened to Ryan Fraser? It’s all so very confusing and a mystery. Should make a good whodunnit.

Hollywood is full of men and women who were the prettiest / most handsome in their town. Encouraged by winning the local pageant they got on the bus hoping to become a star. Mostly they wait tables and wash cars and never make it. The players who got us promoted were amongst the best players of there position in the Championship. The prettiest and most handsome if you like to continue the analogy. But they found out there’s prettier and more handsome in Hollywood( the EPL). Martins style was super impressive and exotic for the locals in the championship - and ultimately did the trick - but one level up with these players who were 95% under average for epl quality ( at start of season I’d have only considered KWP as a better than average epl player) it clearly did not work. Now it seems clear that there must be a plan to get out the Championship next season- but it does not follow it needs be under Juric in this more aggressive front foot style. IF the players to get us up are very likely to be upgraded when we get promoted why is that not so for the Manager? Indeed, is there a specialist manager who could get us out the championship but might not be good enough for EPL? With the benefit of hindsight RM got us up but if he’d been sacked and replaced by a specialist epl manager ( like Moyes) who then chucked out the players he thought inadequate and reconstructed an epl surviving team using his experience - that would have worked better. I don’t know if juric is right for the championship or if indeed he truly is invested in the idea were we to get relegated. What I sense is that he will get paid more than he would virtually anywhere else by staying At Saints in championship ( considering his CV) and that might be the key factor. So I’d expect him to be leading us v Hull etc next year.

AA is mostly nailing it in the warm up shots. Got to put him on score anytime. I can see a penalty ….😄

It’s interesting to see Ivan out in the middle watching the warm up. Not something RM did far as I can remember. Seems as interested in nufc warm up as ours . nb he’s just gone back in

Sadly think @WALK DMC is right. Tyler is showing he can absolutely perform at EPL level. It does not matter how much he likes it here - or whether some feel a year in the lower league could improve him further - if a big team, home or abroad offer £40m- £50M, I think SR will sell. And rightly so. And I hate that that’s the case but nothing we can do. Just be grateful we get to see him play when he’s not injured & still for saints I guess. ION ; I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Morgan Whitaker being snapped up for £6m by Boro. That is cheap for guaranteed goals albeit he’s not had a great year this time around. We might be short a wide player who actually scores come end of season entering the championship and that’s the kind of price range we like.

Yes, you are correct @Matthew I did mention that later in the post. My point is that Ivan may be rather underwhelmed by his MF options without Lesley and I’d expect a like for like incoming if he was recalled not a make do with the squad CM players solution as first choice. …You may have missed it - Will, Flynn and Joe are not what you’d call physically dominant strong defensive CM’s though. IMO. Lallana not in a million years. The only one we have is Les - who gets better and better - but may be recalled.

We don’t have the physically impressive MF that Juric would wish for, ideally. Aribo can hold off a challenge, Flynn and Will are good runners - but none are good defenders. Given we need to score more it’s obvious (to me anyways) Ivan will continue to play aggressive attacking style football with three up front for rest of season. These three will need defensive support. The CMF in particular must be prepared to do a lot of donkey work -and do it well - to allow our better players up front the licence to do what they are meant to do- shoot and score. Will, Flynn and Joe are not what you’d call physically dominant strong defensive CM’s though. IMO. Lallana not in a million years. The only one we have is Les - who gets better and better - but may be recalled. By this admittedly circuitous line of logic I deduce that IF Les goes (a) Ivan will be very upset and (b) we are extra fuxked and (c) Ivan will be asking for a like for like replacement in this window - or - wait for it - expect to see CaptainJack starting in that role at SMS soon….….….….of course we used to have an old CM that was so past it and useless he went from us straight into Barca’s team…😎

Don’t usually go in for slating players -but- BBD this year has got to be right up there with the biggest disappointments I’ve seen. Came with a big rep. Scored a decent goal v Lazio. Got that toon sent off Day one and then - nothing - literally nothing. He does not get near this squad but early season my impression was : Stands as still as he can at Left wing. If passed the ball will only pass it back or pass it infield. Has never knowingly gone forwards. Not seen him shoot. Not seen him attempt an offensive pass, god forbid a forward header. He may attempt to amble backwards in an impersonation of someone attempting to regain possession and it’s as if going past his man was made clear to him it’s illegal. His pace is glacial as are his reactions and ability to shield the ball. He cannot tackle. He looks hefty but he’s lightweight. He cannot shoot. That lazio goal was a mirage. His eye for a goal is back in Chile somewhere I reckon. His movement, to which I’ve previously alluded to makes wooden mannequins look eerily vivacious. If he was born in the Middle Ages Michelangelo wouldn’t need to carve a giant lump of marble to depict him. Bit of white paint jobs a good un. Spends more time stroking his hair and beard than stroking the ball around the football pitch. And I had such high hopes for him. Such a shame. I’m gutted really. Nice guy in person as well. NB m. and we dumped Sam E and left Sulemana to rot so that he could do zero squared. Boggled mind. Hope he does alright at Sheff Utd.

TBF this is quite a strong Championship team. Albeit it looks a bit toothless now Tyler is out. Certainly when compared to teams like Sheff Utd who are winning a lot in the league below without anything like our squad quality. The home match v Forest was one of the most baffling Saints matches i've ever seen - so it wont take much to improve on it - though we still have a lot of the same starters as that match - just three different - BBD, Ramsdale and Captain Jack not playing. I hope we remember how sick inducing that performance was and actually show some passion. Got a feeling with our most skilful players not playing or bench we will show that passion by using more brawn on the pitch than is strictly necessary so watch out for cards, plenty yellow AND red my prediction.......but I don't care if we kick them off the park and end with 8 players as long as we win...COYY!

Well done. Supporters like you are why we are proud saints. Taking your son on a mission impossible but doing it anyway with good cheer. Good man and good saints stock! 😇

As an Anglo Italian I feel it’s ok to take a mildly humorous take on his accent, “No, No“ Ivan Juric already has a number of linguistic idiosyncrasies that could make him a terrace legend. 😄 COYS!

Yes I think in part that was what was hoped might happen. He IS technically superior to the rest of our lot but his body isn’t , as far as I can judge , unfortunately. Cant tell you how gutted I was first match away at Eastleigh when I basically went hoping to see his debut but he pulled out after the pre match kick around on the pitch. Sadly was a sign of things to come…

Point think worth making is we should not expect too much of our current players. Especially if SR sell KWP or God Forbid Aaron, Tyler, Taylor or Mateus - which are all possible imo were the right offer to come in. The squad camp mood, from my understanding, has gone from diehard belief in a failing cause to professional pragmatism. That has got to be an improvement. Ivan has already shown he has grasped the situation by putting our (probably) three most gifted players together on pitch at same time, in close proximity. And allowed KWP licence to attack more defend less. The Kameldeen, Mateus, Tyler forward line is clearly an intelligent attempt at making something different happen when we attack. K with his unpredictability/pace and Tyler/Mateus with their raw skill. We should see more shots more on target and with luck more goals. The rest of season I see Juric playing 3 centre backs and a mostly defensively solid rest of team set up to stop goals conceded and support those three/four. They are tasked with basically doing whatever it takes to get a goal. When and if they get knackered then Cameron, TP and Adam get to try. Think Ivan will have got that plan settled in his mind now until end of season, unless an unlikely top technical player but who is a bit past it agrees to join - think along the lines of a Tadic or a Balotelli type player for a last hurrah short term deal.

I think I'm always going to think of him as No-No Ivan Juric. Every answer in his press conference starts the same - "No No". And his theme song, assuming we get to win an EPL game with him as Manager, or maybe its safer if I say if we get to score a goals and are, at least temporarily, in the lead in an EPL match, will surely be the 2 Unlimited "No limit"...: No No, No No No No, No No No No No No ....IVAN JURIC...yeah it's dead easy easy. 😎

Agree. He was playing against L1 standard defenders was the main reason. The second ( imo) is he was being watched by scouts ( from Genoa apparently) because I don’t think he will be up for playing Championship football with Saints next year - everything about him and the situation he’s been in shouts he will want to be sold before he ever gets picked to play for us in the Championship. I think Juric will certainly make the case to SR that KS is a potential difference maker up front that may be our salvation - and SR might agree on the basis that if he gets a handful of goals at EPL it won’t do his resale value any harm - so unless it’s a very meaty offer in the Jan window ( over £15m nearer £20m id say) I think he will be playing a lot more for Saints between now and end of season - if he’s not sold. What won’t happen is that he won’t even make match day squad anymore- which I always thought was crazy given our best tricky winger got sent away start of season ( Sam E).