Nemi

Tbh I’d rather see Salisu get a run at LCB now. Vestergaard is a threat with his passing as he still proved in his 10 mins but really we really need someone more solid defensively and Salisu impressed in that regard the last two games.

If I was Hasenhuttl I’d be crying after that honestly.

We put ourselves in these positions though, should never of even got in that situation. You make your own luck.

Would be good to see him offered an opportunity to be given some training in a coaching role, perhaps? I don’t think he ever would of made it in the Prem as a player - though would say that was due to a lack of quality, rather than an lack of football intelligence, in fact, I think he seemed quite a smart player and that negated his weaknesses a lot of the time. Would be good to keep him around the club. And it seems like a popular idea nowadays to have some younger guys at the club in coaching roles in case we ever need to recruit from within in the future?

Yep, pretty sure Hasenhuttl said Obafemi was ruled out of this game. Can’t see us getting anything out of this but would go something like: Forster KWP, Stephens, Vestergaard, Salisu JWP, Armstrong Walcott, Tella Adams, Minamino Bednarek needs to be dropped for his benefit, though bringing in Stephens probably won’t improve anything. Apart from that, might as well try a new front 4 combo and just hope they provide something; though again, they’ll probably prove to be just as toothless as the last.

I think calling him demotivated is a bit lazy. He just never properly fit into our squad - ideally we’d want him playing a sort of Lallana CAM role, but we always tried to shoehorn him into the squad as a box-to-box midfielder or DM and unsurprisingly, given his strengths were going forward, he could rarely perform to the level we occasionally saw from him. Probably why is best to move him on. He’s not a DM, maybe he could do a job as a wide midfielder in the 4222, but honestly we’re not going to get anything worthwhile from him unless we change our formation to something like 4231 with Lemina free to roam forward as an attacking midfielder.

It’s the same bloody thread that credits our assistant for helping get us back on track last season, but apparently now Hasenhuttl’s stubborn, and his assistant doesn’t exist anymore.

Yeah great, but that doesn’t change the fact that joining a club that has just finished 8th, with a lot of very strong set of core players remaining, such as Clyne, Fonte, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, S Davis with a club who then had a good reputation for recruiting players. That’s a lot more attractive than a club that finished 17th the season before, is in the relegation zone, with a lot weaker of a squad, and by that time our reputation for recruitment is in tatters. And the second point, sorry, I don’t understand what you mean? Not sure if you’ve confused me with someone else or the wording is just bad, but I’m one of the few people arguing Hasenhuttl has improved us (slightly anyway) with a worse squad and should be given more time. But he joined us when the club was getting worse. If that’s what you’re getting at?

? We’d been promoted, then promoted, again, then came 14th in the PL, then came 8th in the PL. How is that not improving? We lost players, but thankfully retained a strong core, and as demonstrated we’d had the confidence as a club to find players who were better than the ones that left. There might of been panic in the fan base, but there certainly wasn’t any in the ranks of the Football Club. Because we then finished 7th and then 6th. That’s exactly what happened so it’s quite bizarre you’re even trying to make an argument here.

Because I would rather look at the long-term and I think the Football Club he took over has deep ranging issues that will take a long-time to fix. He’s taken over a Football Club, that, as a whole, was on a rather steep regression, due to various factors. Though the manger has done it in an unconventional manner with lots of highs and lots of lows - which I know we’re stuck in at the moment, I think overall - judging by his spell as a whole rather than certain periods, he’s arrested the regression of the football club - though I see why people find it hard to look past current form. It is a crap, crap run but it’s is also only that bad because it is true other managers would have been sacked by now. I’m glad as a club we’re finally looking more long-term again. But I also accept trying to get a the same manger to improve form will inevitably take longer than a new manager, who may give us a short-term bounce but leaves us with all the long-term problems still. I don’t have a problem with people criticising Hasenhuttl - there’s a lot to criticise him for. But I think people are over simplifying the issues we have. For example, in our lowest moments the 9-0 v Man Utd, some people are acting like if we just shut up shop we’d be fine and just lose by a respectable amount instead. But we did shut up shop - we spent the whole game camped in our half and never got out, and given the extremely limited bench that day, we made defensive subs. That result showed that problems run deeper into this Football Club that go far beyond just changing tactics because we did - exactly in the manner people suggest - and it was still an embarrassing disaster. Saying that he was been rightfully criticised for crap against Leeds, Brighton and WBA. But people are acting like if we just changed formation, or just played Jankewitz (who I’m also frustrated that he hasn’t got more chances), the results would be different. These results happened because the whole team didn’t turn up but were made worse by poor management in these games. I think the criticisms he has received his season are correct but also reflect on the whole team. We’ve been one dimensional and, I agree, his tactics certainly haven’t helped. But looking beyond the lack of quality, the sort of players we have are one-dimensional too, they’re all very same-y and tend to offer and do the same things. That’s why I don’t totally blame him for not be able to change things as I don’t think we have enough variety in the players to do so. We’re a club in transition and given the sort of club we are with not much investment, transitions will take a long, long time, and that is being proven. I personally expected us to have such lows given where we are as a club. Doesn’t make it good enough and it has got worse than I thought. But, I see us in a position where Hasenhuttl has largely cleared out what he doesn’t want - which this season has affected us because I think it has left us with the problems I mentioned above (lack of variety and quality in the squad). So it has left this season as a bit of a write-off, which is even more frustrating as we started so well and were looking to maybe achieve something. But taking a step back, I never thought, given the scenario with the pandemic also, we’d do very well this season, and we haven’t. So overall I can deal with it. What I expect now is Hasenhuttl to start building next season. The demolition is complete, it’s revealed a hell of a lot of issues with the squad and manager himself, but thankfully it seems like we’ll still be a PL team next season, and now he has a basis to start build upon again. I just think it would be madness to sack him now when he’s halfway through the job. But this is the big challenge now is for him to start building and improving again. He has made it a bigger challenge for himself by ending this season so badly. And he could very well fail next season. But it did look even worse in November 2019, and I couldn’t see how he was going to fix it. But somehow he did. Now he’s got to do it again. But I don’t have the answers how, and I find it silly that people on the forum think they have the answers because if it’s was really so easy, do you really think that a PL manager wouldn’t have noticed? Like I said he could quite easily fail and might, as he is nowhere near perfect, but he was brought here as a long-term solution, and he is managing for the long term, with varying degrees of short-term success. I personally see this as a 4/5 year job and think it would be crazy to sack him halfway through it. If he can’t build upon what he’s done so far next season though, we’ll have no choice but to look elsewhere.

Well our players have only regressed from the levels Hasenhuttl got them too. But they were just as bad before he was here: we barely scraped relegation beforehand with basically the same, if not a slightly better squad. If these players are just coached badly then we aren’t Smith and Bielsa looking at our squad then, if they could just coach them to be better? Ings aside no-one in the PL wants anyone from our squad. They’ve proved consistently under various managers they’re not very good.

I’m still not sure why people think I’m saying this isn’t the managers fault or trying to justify it. I really don’t want to have to say it again: he’s an average manager with plenty of flaws. I’m just saying the problems run far, far deeper. I’m sure short-term we could get someone who change the tactics and formation a bit and do better for the moment but it’s just papering over the cracks. No new tactics are going to change the fact our defenders can’t defend. We could drop Bednarek but we only have Stephens who can play RCB as the rest are left-footed. I really think we should go 433 and add a man in midfield but that’s still going to require us playing at the moment Diallo, JWP and Armstrong who play already and the results speak for themselves. Nothing is going to change the fact that are wingers just aren’t very productive, no matter what formation we’re going to be toothless. And Ings is still going to be get injured a lot, so half the time we’re left with someone less potent. I’d much rather Hasenhuttl focuses on a long-term solution that can sustain us for a bit. That’s not going to happen this season. If he can’t find something my next season though, I agree a change should happen. But this season’s over, we’ve been exposed, we’ve been found out, we’re stuck in a rut and it’s not even just about the quality of the players, it’s the fact there’sa losing mentality at this club. And that’s the big, big problem which isn’t going to be fixed overnight. Luckly for Hasenhuttl he’s bought himself a bit of time because he registered the points early on. Unfortunately he’s also raised everyone’s expectations far too high. We could just change manager again but that hasn’t worked the last three times has it. At least Hasenhuttl has shown that it seems he can get some sort of improvement, even if he hasn’t worked out how to sustain it yet. I’d much rather give him another pre-season to give it ago than constantly chop and change every year as soon as we hit poor form. Pochettino and Koeman took over a club with confidence, who were improving and a winning mentality. Hasenhuttl has taken over a club with a losing mentality, who were regressing, with our confidence smashed to pieces. There’s no quick fix for that.

You really think McCarthy/Forster is better than Martinez? You think Bednarek and Vestergaard who conceded nearly 20 goals more than Konsa and Mings are better? I don’t think either of their full-backs would be worse than our current offering. Target was never terrible for us and since then he’s progressed while Bertrand has regressed. I prefer Douglas Luiz over our CMs and I think McGinn would be as good as Armstrong. Even Barkley wouldn’t make this team worse. Grealish isn’t even a argument. And the there is El Ghazi (7 goals), Trezuguet (2 goals) and Traore (5 goals) v Redmond (2 goals), Djenepo (1 goal) and Walcott (2 goals). As good as Ings is Watkins has got more goals than him this season (in his first PL season), and stays fit. And we’re better? Leeds are a bigger club than us. With a better manager. And still a better squad. Let’s not pretend that JWP is better than Phillips. Even Southgate who loves JWP knows it. Any of their CBs would be better than ours. It was on here people were desperate to sign Jansson not long ago, and he got dropped by them after promotion. Again neither of their full-backs would do any worse. Raphinha would walk into a lot of PL teams. And Bamford has 14 goals this season. He’d walk into our team too. And West Ham ffs! You think this squad should be competing with a team who could get Champions League?!! I literally can’t believe how deluded that is? Yeah they’re overachieving but you think we could get anywhere near them? You think that Moyes could take us to 5th? Honestly it’s mental. If we’re so good why aren’t teams queuing up to buy players? Like Hojbjerg, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Lovren, Alderweireld, Van Dijk, Mane, Lallana, Clyne, Shaw? Only Ings has any sort of firm interest. And with his injury record there’s still questions there.

I’m saying there’s no manager who over the course of the season would get us higher than 14th/15th place. That’s where we are as a club. But if it’s more satisfactory for you I’m sure they’d do it in a more consistent way where we don’t win loads of games at the start and lose loads of games at the end. We’d just win a few here and there over the course of the season, but we’re still not gonna end up much higher than where we are now. We were a far more attractive club when Pochettino joined and when Koeman joined compared to where we are now. But I think even those two would struggle to do better than 11th and 52 points with this squad and I think those two would especially struggle with this squad in a season like this.

Yes, it’s not bad luck at all. We’re not very good, the players aren’t very good, the manager this season at least is out of ideas. I think we have one of the worst squads in the league - especially now teams like West Brom stregthened in January. I think it’s normal because overall our league position right now reflects the quality of player on the pitch. Yes, it’s happened in a weird way this season but Hasenhuttl isn’t a good enough manager to outperform his team by much. I think we have the 15th-18th worst squad in the league, and as such that’s where we are. I highly doubt we’ll get many more points this season. Sure, we could switch a different formation, but that’s not going to make Redmond or Djenepo or Walcott start scoring or assisting. It’s not gonna change the fact we have defenders whose strong points aren’t defending. Or midfielders who panic too much. Or inconsistent goalkeepers. It’s gonna take a pre-season at least to turn this around. As I’ve mentioned already, one of Hasenhuttl’s flaws is that our form is very on or off. But the league position is what matters and overall he’s still doing better in that regard than his predecessors - even at his worst, with this terrible run of form recently. I shouldn’t have to keep saying it but I don’t think Hasenhuttl is anything special - he plays reasonably entertaining but very frustrating football, that’s high risk, high reward and right now that’s really not working for our squad which is not only poor but extremely mentally weak and lacking on field leadership. But the problems run a hell of a lot deeper than the manger - we’ve overachieved under him last season and now we’re finding our place which reflects where we are as a club nowadays. It isn’t 2014 any more.

You can’t justify the nonsense you are spouting. He’s stubborn because he doesn’t have a number 2? Every bloody club has a number 2. No manager who can get to second in the Bundesliga, or 50 points in the PL is clueless. Don’t make him a genius either. You’re ridiculously deluded if you think Southampton are too big to go on bad runs. We’re a small Premier League team and that’s exactly why we are where we are in the table. And because we’re a small team, inevitably we attract a manager like Hasenhuttl, who has many flaws but if you think he’s clueless god knows how someone so entitled survived under Poortvield or Burley.

I don’t think that he’s so good that he’ll look good in a poor team, as with West Ham then and what would happen if he joined us now. But he excelled when we had a good squad and he’s excelling now in a good Lille team. As I said, I’m not sure he’d be the answer but he’s a lot better than our current CBs, with far better experience.

Again though this is reactionary. Was he clueless when we were winning a lot last year? He’s just a standard manager with strong points and weak points - his strong points helped us in our good run of form, his weak points have exacerbated our poor run of form. It’s all quite normal. And overall it’s evened out into a position which reflects the quality of our squad, and has shown he can do a (at the very least slightly) better job than our last two managers - despite, I would say, our squad gradually weakening over that time. I doubt he’ll find the answers this season - realistically there’s only so much that can be fixed, and it’s not exactly been the ideal season to turn around form. If he can’t next season, then questions will rightly be asked. But even if he fails it definitely doesn’t make him clueless - sometimes things work out, sometimes they don’t. And I’m not sure what people mean by having a number 2? We have one, like every other team?

I’m not doubting it. Our defence has been terrible for years and years. You’re making out like I’m saying he’s a genius. I’ve consistently been saying he’s an average manager. With limited resources and a poor squad he did well before and now he’s doing bad. It’s hardly shocking is it?

Well that’s what my messages say, so don’t see why you need that clarifying? And I don’t know who is in charge of recruitment but almost all my messages have criticised it. If Hasenhuttl has had complete control of it then we can add that to the list of his flaws.

No. I think he’s an average manager, who’s very slightly worse than Hasenhuttl. I think Pellegrino and Hughes were slightly below average managers, but were my no means our biggest problem. As Southampton Football Club as a whole we had started our decline. They were all victims of that.

I meant in terms of leadership, winning trophies, winning games and keeping clean sheets. I guess our defence have played a lot of games, but also conceded tones of goals, lost a lot of games and I don’t think one of them leads the team. Fonte’s results speak for themselves, it’s a lot better than our current crop. Don’t think he’s the answer though or that necessarily that great, just better than what we have.

We’ve slid from what he has achieved himself. We also haven’t slipped from where he started with us. My point is he hasn’t joined us and made us worse, he’s failed to maintain his own form. That happens.

No, if you read it again you can see I said we’ve slid from the form he oversaw for us. I also said we haven’t slid from when he got the job because the previous season we finished 17th and when he took over we were in the relegation zone. We’re currently 15th. So that also isn’t wrong So not sure what you’re getting at here?

You’re literally making the same point as me. I’m literally saying he’s an average manager. That’s why I’m also saying it’s no surprise he’s having a tough time now when even the best coaches do. I really, really can’t make that any clearer - if that’s too difficult for you to comprehend I can’t help you. It’s just that I believe that we’re going to consistently be a poor team unless we somehow get better players. We Southampton ffs we’re not gonna have some genius managing us who can take this squad to Europe. Again, someone trying to start an argument by making up something I haven’t said.