Forester

Saint Fred can you please engage with the obvious point that Puel also faced six games in Europe and an unblemished run all the way to Wembley where we were, in the day, hugely unlucky not to win. So he had a dozen games more than Poch or Pellegrino will face. As I have said separately, given no league cup or European football, a significant uplift is expected by MP who now, following the Wolves debacle, has total focus throughout the week on coaching with no distractions. And a fully fit squad with three more additions than Puel had. Only the most biased judge would not expect an uplift with that hugely helpful backdrop....let's see what MP is made of.

Spot on

As I said on another thread, that was as poor a performance of aimless long ball football as I have seen since Branfoot days. Only the away defeat to Midget Land gets close. We have sacked a manager who produces some boring but usually undefeated displays at home, and some hood displays away, took us to Wembley without conceding a goal and finished eight. We all understand why, some will agree and others like me disagree. However what is clear is that this manager has made an awful start. We have won once in five games, stoppage time penalty against ten men, been outplayed by Wolves Reserves, outclassed by ten men in the second half against Wet Spam, outclassed in first half by Udders and outclassed throughout by Watford today. MP is being paid big bucks, we paid compensation to poor Puel, and MP has days and days now of no midweek football to distract from his coaching skills. Massive uplift is expected on last season with a dozen or so fewer matches to navigate. Only if you were not at the five games so far can you be unconcerned. We are yet to play anyone who finished above us last season. Unless there is huge change we will be in a relegation battle. I hope he turns it around, and he has a fully fit squad to do so with. But the early signs are very worrying. I could see what Puel was doing, not always popular but it was clear. This season so far is all over the shop

I am not turning on the manager. Yet. But I am holding him accountable for one of the worst Saints performances I have seen since Branfoot days in terms of playing style. Much of today was aimlessly hoofing the ball forward and surrendering possession. I have much bigger concerns though having been at all five games so far, and having been at something like forty games last season. There was a pattern and purpose to Puel. Frequently dull at home, but not always. Generally good away. So far this season we have won one game of the five against ten men through a stoppage time penalty. We were outplayed in second half by 10 man Wet Spam, outplayed by Wolves reserves, outplayed first half by Udders and bullied all game today. We are yet to face anyone who finished below us, and have used up three home games already. I can see no pattern or plan, lower levels of workrate and a disturbing inability to change anything. I have supported every manager since and including Pardew and if you check my posts history you will see I am usually a "happy clapper". But this is truly dire to watch, and we are in a relation battle unless there are fundamental changes to the way we are approaching games. The manager has been brought in on big money, we have paid compensation to get rid of a manager who took us to Wembley unbeaten and finished eight with approximately a dozen more games to play than MP has to face now. He now has week in week out uninterrupted coaching time. Let's see what he is made of.

I agree. Gabbi's off the ball movement is intelligent and I think that Romeo, Lamina and Davis are our best bets to fed this. For Watford game I would drop Tadic in favour of Long. Watford will try and create a hurried match and Long's pace will be handy. Tadic has been poor so far in my opinion. So 4-2-3-1 with Redmond, Long and Davis supporting Gabbi. No other changes and would tell Yoshi and Stephens that they have possession of the shirt and should keep on bagging clean sheets.

A good day out albeit lucky to have escaped from an awful first half where we should have been out of the game had Udders been more clinical. We won't survive against better opposition. Encouragingly, as I was very unimpressed by him against Wet Spam and Wolves, MP improved us second half and the substitutions were imaginative and effective with us finishing strongly. A few other observations: - Lamina has shown me enough in both games to feel that he will prove a superb signing. Another Wanyama with more technically - Both Bertrand and Cedric so far this season look either tired from the summer, distracted by speculation or both - I worry that Davis, a favourite player of mine in recent seasons, is starting to look a little over the hill - Having sent out Sam on loan I hope we are bringing in another striker this week, as we are cutting it very fine given Austin injury track record

An absolute example to other professionals. We are lucky to have him and he is finally appreciated by most fans getting a few songs these days!

I hope that people notice though that rather than just noise and usual negativity from the normal suspects there are a number of what I would call thoughtful posters who's views I respect that are unusually angry about a real shambles, with the coach in the dock after that. Not only is it one less cup final and European place up for grabs it will have a big impact on squad players who may now be brought in for a one off game after months of no first team football. We remember the damage that did to Maya a few years ago.....I haven't been seen pi**ed off after a Saints game for many years

I am a consistent supporter of the last five managers, and was not in the Puel out camp. These are very early days for the manager and it will take a few weeks to form any real judgement. However... ...the second half against Wet Spam and last night were seriously worrying. We went backwards against ten men, were fortunate to get out of jail in stoppage time and last night was awful. I didn't blame MP for the changes, which were fewer than Wolves made, or the ambition to try a different formation against a side we should comfortably beat. However the lack of interventions and urgency just after halftime when we started the second half in awful mode is a concern to me. It was obvious we were losing control of the game to Wolves and to leave the big changes until the last 15 mins or so when we changed personnel and formation was poor. With no European football and playing once a week until Xmas I expect significant improvement as a result of his uninterrupted coaching during the weeks ahead. He has a significantly easier hand of cards to play than poor Claude did last year. Am making the trip up north Saturday and let's hope we are all smiling afterwards because that was a horror show last night if you were there.

We must surely have a replacement lined up. Three strikers, with one injury prone, won't cut it. Get Sam back next summer when it will probably be time to move Long on

I think this is right with possible change of Targett for McQueen. I don't get the negativity from some fans about the changes. These are vital players in our squad who should be itching to prove a point. And rotating helped get us to Wembley last year. I am all for it. Be interesting to see what Wolves do as they have spent big on promotion bid...

I agree with all of this. I think Fraser has started the season well looking fitter and more proactive. Did well Saturday and very unlucky that they were quicker to react to second ball than our defenders

I thought we were much better against eleven men than ten. Second half very disappointing in all honesty and we got out of jail in the end. Puel would have got dogs abuse for the insipid second half performance against ten men. Still it makes up for our bad luck last week. Was impressed by Lamina given it was his first Premier League appearance. Reminds me a lot of Schneiderlin, a good physical presence (stronger if anything), energy and wants to be positive on the ball. Will only get better. It's rare I say this but Fraser had a good game with decent saves for both goals but we weren't able to react as quickly for the rebounds

I sit pretty close to Kat and anyone who saw her watch the ML tribute on Saturday could see she was visibly very emotional. The family took a gamble many years ago, have made some excellent hiring decisions in Cortese, Reed and Krueger and leave a fantastic legacy that has given many people huge pleasure including two cup finals, two promotions and four consecutive top eight finishes. With the exception of Chelsea and Man City I cannot think of any other club for whom a takeover has had such a sustainable impact (the word sustainable means Blackburn are excluded!). Every Saints fan should be saying a huge thank you

Just a I wasn't in the "Puel is clueless" camp I don't expect to see any sustained changes in style for a few weeks under MP. However, with the exception of the very poor Hull match, I didn't think today was very much different to most (not all) home games last season. We passed the ball pretty well, looked solid at the back and lacked a cutting edge around the box. There were many games under Puel where the stats showed we DESERVED to win. Today was the same. So the world is not about to end now, just as it wasn't about to in May. I thought Boufak looked good when he came on and would like to see him start next week

Agree with lineup suggested but would have Davis number 10 over JWP

I have just seen us beat Seville, and we have finished in the top eight for four consecutive seasons, qualified for Europe twice and enjoyed a cup final. Feeling pretty relaxed personally. Shambkes, what shambles? Feels like an article written by someone approaching puberty....

I trust you saw the second goal coming from Davis pressing?

Another top ten finish would be pleasing, and I expect an improvement in points not least because MP has a better hand to play than poor Claude did, with no European football and three teams that finished above us without the extra challenge of European football returning to Europe this year. I think the key to us this season is keeping the front players fit. Am less concerned about the defence as we have a good second string back line compared to our competitors. But early injuries to Austin and Gabby would hit us hard. That is why I would still like to bring in another striker.

Yes this must explain the appalling collapse of a club playing league one football seven years ago. I mean four consecutive finishes in the top eight, European football and a cup final really does represent failure on his part. I was saying this stood watching us at Dagenham and Redbridge few years back when your club down the road was crashing out of the Premier League under Avram Grant.....

Martins Indi was heavily linked to us a year or two ago and did well on loan at Stoke last year. Was terrific as part of the ten men who held out against us at their place. If VVD goes then he would be a good acquisition

I get it now, you have cut through the argument with precision and intelligence. So presumably managers should actively plan on being crap, get sacked with consequential hit to reputation, as it's a good outcome because they get compensation? And there was me thinking that in fact the two situations were remarkably similar, namely that one of the two parties in a contract offer a multi year commitment to the other and then change their mind. You are quite right, how foolish of me

Yes I mentioned this when we fired Puel. Rightly or wrongly we surrendered the moral high ground and showed that the "long term project" was just hyperbole and that we wouldn't respect a contract either if we thought we would be better off to terminate it. That said the behaviour is reprehensible from VVD. I mean a six year contract one year ago, then injured for half of the year. Really?

I would dearly love this rumour to be true, but the analogy of "no different to three £15 million players" is flawed for the simple fact that it ignores wages. I imagine that GS could get well in excess of £100K per week elsewhere and once you start bringing one player in on considerably more than his team mates you either kick off huge wage inflation or breed resentment

It depends, if there is a player who a club are keen to move on then sometimes yes. However the more compelling argument is that if you were the new manager I would hope that you may want to actually work with and see your current squad play before you make knee jerk decisions on who you need. No?