Sir Ralph

Yes but the severity of cases is graded under 13, under 16 and under 18. Under 16 is still a serious offence. There were also two offences which makes this guys sentence surprisingly lenient

You can’t just leave it. Yes someone should be jailed for sexually assaulting minors.

I think we are going round in circles as I think we ultimately agreed in part. Let leave it there. Have a good evening

The case you gave isn’t even comparable. No touching of a sexual organ, one case, no minor and no criminal damage. Canyou answer my question about the situation I mentioned and your likely response based on your stance so far?

Where is your justification in the sentencing guidelines. Pleading guilty is max 1/3 off a sentence. In the mps case that’s still 35 months versus a £400 fine. Doesn’t answer the question just because he was in the public eye. The disparity is extreme Put another way - in a theoretical world if a pervert approached you a said he was worried about assaulting a 14 year old you would say don’t do it. He would say I’m worried about the sentence though and you would say I think a £400 fine is an appropriate consequence- correct? Difficult question. I know but that’s where you currently stand and based on your (in my opinion m) rather ridiculous stance I can’t see you would say anything else. You can agree that this would be a ridiculous stance, no judgement as we often try to make cases we realise a have taken things to far (including me today)

Naivety - read about the judiciary in the us about sentencing relating to republican and democrat related characters over the past few years. I do t know what you do but politics at every level infiltrates decisions. I spend a substantial portion of my day managing the consequences - to say the judiciary is exempt is naive

Ok look this up and tell me your view compared to our mates case. I’m very interested. In your world 2 assaults including a minor deserves a £400 fine and this guy should do 2 years in jail for 3 assault but no Minors?

So just to clarify you think a £400 fine for sexually assaulting two women including a 14 year old is appropriate. You have given your own personal opinion on this NOT based on sentencing guidelines which I have. Your personal opinion is irrelevant as is mine. To repeat you can’t argue that grabbing a bum is any different to grabbing anything else sexually as guidelines wise it makes no difference. Prison overcrowding doesn’t explain it - very weak Assume you disagree with Charlie elphickes sentence of 2 years then? This will be fun

What’s his colour got to do with it? You still haven’t answered why a £400 fine is justified….still. Can you explain? Answer this does a man who sexually assaults a 14 year old deserves only a £400 fine? Please answer the question directly I’m at pains to reiterate that in the sentencing guidelines grabbing boobs, bum or anything else is no different - it’s sexual assault. If Nigel farage touched up two women including a 14 year old and threw a chair at a restaurant would you back a £400 fine? I wouldn’t and you definitely wouldn’t. If you say”no” youre lying hence double standards None of you can answer pretty easy questions about this. The usual suspects go into generic mode which says a lot. It’s frankly embarrassing that you think the penalty for sexually assaulting a 14 year old should be a £400 fine. I’ll await a direct response to this question which you won’t give because you know the answer undermines your case

No they haven’t. Summarise for me why the chap I mentioned got away with a £400 fine. It not that I don’t agree it’s that nobody has explained it rather than incredibly generic wide ranging statements that mean nothing. I’ve broken down my rationale based on sentencing guidelines with specific reference to them. Just a reminder he touched up a 14 year old and an adult and threw a chair causing criminal damage…that is the sentence you are backing as a £400 fine. I’m at pains to reiterate that in sentencing grabbing boobs, bum or anything else is no different - it’s sexual assault. If Nigel farage touched up two women including a 14 year old and threw a chair at a restaurant you would back a £400 fine?

Ok but doesn’t answer the question I had. Your response is so generic that it doesn’t mean anything. Personally I think the judiciary has become increasingly politically influenced and this is an example and nobody has been able to explain what the £400 fine was justified. If I did that I’m certain I would be locked up.

I was seeking clarity on the disparity in the sentencing of the two cases looking at the guidelines. The sentencing is drastically different and it wasn’t clear why particularly as the lesser sentence involved a minor. That was my starting point.

I agree I didn’t need to throw any insults. Including at @tdmickey3 My standards are typically better than that so I’ll take it on the chin and apologise.

Just replied to the wrong post. I prefer my subsequent response. Much more honest. Do you have anything else to do rather than wait for people to post on other peoples posts? There are websites for you to make other friends on or even a girlfriend (wouldn’t want @tdmickey3 getting jealous though).

You’re really quite intellectually challenged. I know it’s not your fault and I don’t tend to get personal on here but sometimes there is an exception. People can have opinions but if they are thick as two planks it’s not coherent. Where did I say Brands sentence was too much?

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Fair enough that’s weird. This forum doesn’t need a cock off over who is financially more successful!

Youve oversimplified a detailed explanation of why I queried the sentencing in the two cases we talked about. I didnt say the sentences should be the same, I questioned the huge disparity for what appear to be similar crimes (albeit one was with a minor and got a lesser sentence) and why one was a £400 fine. You have just taken the conversation down to a very basic level. The Brighton case involved multiple rape, abduction, violence (kicking, slapping, strangling and spitting) and prolonged abuse, filming of the incident and a vulnerable victim. There are your differences right there. How about the differences in the cases I mentioned?

Why do you want his net worth? It’s weird. Personally I hate going to events or parties where people start telling others about their net worth and success and invariably it’s a load of shite anyway.

Do you like being the lap dog? Yapping around of the back of posts of people of the same political persuasion. It’s embarrassing. Get your own opinion and articulate it rather than making stupid comments.

In relation to the law and sentencing bums v boobs makes no difference and sentencing is what we were talking about. Nobody has been able to explain the reason for the significant disparity despite assaulting a minor). Can you? All I’ve done is ask the question and looked at the sentencing guidelines. If somebody can then fine but nobody has

There is a specific offence for assaulting a minor if under 16 so the age of the 14 year old is very relevant and wasn’t relevant to brand. Our mates case was sentenced in the crown court not a magistrates court. He also admitted criminal damage which also wasn’t relevant to brand, although I acknowledge this is a less serious charge than assault, albeit still an additional crime. Im struggling to identify the reason for the difference in sentencing particularly the large disparity and I think you are also, if we are honest. If I walked out of my house and grabbed two women by the bum, including a school girl, then smashed up the bus stop. Told a crown court judge I was sorry I think that 99% of the population would say a £400 fine is taking the piss, particularly when you then ask Russell brand the length of his sentence for two assaults.

Pleading guilty allows for a maximum 1/3 off a sentence so that would mean brand had 12 months sentence for the two assaults discussed (rather than 17 months) if he also plead guilty, with our mate only getting a £400 fine by comparison. So that closes the difference slightly but even when applying the guidelines to their maximum doesn’t explain the huge disparity either. Assaulting a minor attracts an additional aggravating factor (in my view a significant one) for our mate due to the vulnerability of the child. I assume you agree with that?

One plead guilty the other didn’t. Doesn’t explain the huge difference in sentencing though. The gap is so great and doesn’t account for one of our mates victim being 14

In law touching a breast or bum is no different in terms of severity and grading for sentencing so that argument falls away for sentencing. In the context of the guidelines for sentencing, knowing this, do you think our mates sentence is proportionate to brands sentencing in respect of the two assaults I mentioned (and our mates criminal damage and assaulting a minor)? For the record I believe touching any minor is worse. I think most people do