um pahars

Just to throw in something to think about, I have to say that I can't remember too many of us moaning about the "state of the Premiership" when we were eating at the top table, playing to full houses and signing players from lower league teams (we even stole a number of youngsters from other teams academies!!!). I have to agree that things have got even worse since we departed from the top flight, but it does seem as though a few years in the lower echelons has certainly made alot more of us aware of just how out of kilter the game currently is.

Maybe now that BWP has been cleared, he could do the victims a favour and give the police the names of those who committed the actual offence along with Dyer (of course Dyer could always provide the police with their names as well). Being such a model citizen, I think that would be something he could easily do.

Try this link!!!!!!! http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10194 and this one. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10197 Here's a few snippets from the OS: Derby wanted to keep him (sic): "Saints have snapped up rising starlet Lee Holmes on a Bosman free transfer. The talented left-sided midfielder is out of contract at Derby who are reportedly desperate to keep him." Derby wanted to keep him (sic) and he likes our new set up: "His contract has now expired and although Paul Jewell's side were keen to keep him, he feels he needs a fresh start and that with their policy of promoting youth, Southampton can provide that." He likes the revolutionary new set up: "Holmes has opted for Saints largely because of their revolutionary new coaching structure" It goes on: "he knows he will have every opportunity to shine at Southampton under the new continental coaching system designed to promote youth" and on: "Holmes believes the passing style of the new managers" I think it sort of proves that Holmes was brought in after the Total Football revolution had commenced. HTH.

I'm sure the OS was saying that Holmes turned Derby down (sic) because of the Dutch football and the Chairman's youngsters policy.

Crouch offered to buy out Lowe's shares (at I think 60p+), but he was never in a position to buy the rest as this would have taken him over the 30% figure and he never had the money to bid the circa £20m or the entire share capital. Crouch never claimed to have that level of funding (nor did Wilde). Exactly. If your shares are going to be worthless in administration and you're not being offered anything other than a nominal figure then your instinct might be to tough it out and hope you can turn it around. Of course selling for a nominal figure to someone else might be in the best interests of the Club, but I think Lowe's cabal and Wilde are putting their own interests first here. What were you thinking of???? Can't see how anyone from outside would invest as a minority and I can't see those two groups putting any money in.

But there is no real "market" for our shares. There are no major institutional shareholders and instead the majority of our shares are in the hands of a few players i.e. Lowe's cabal, Wilde, Crouch & Corbett's. On top of that there are a vast number of shareholders who are fans and hold them as a sentimental investment as opposed to an investment that they might trade. They are simply worth what anyone is prepared to pay (and the AIM listing is almost irrelevant), and recent history has shown that Championship Clubs do not fetch anything other than a nominal value (Wolves, Coventry, Ipswich, Leicester etc). Lowe's cabal and Wilde have nothing to gain by letting their shares go for a nominal fee (even if it is in the Club's best interests), and so instead will sit on them and hope that things turn wround on the pitch before more drastic options are considered.

I definitely agree that we are overpriced, but have to say I also think that even at 10p (valuing us at £3m) we are still overpriced. We are losing money big time and it would be a big ask for someone to come in and pay for the privilege of funding our losses. The vast majority of takeovers in the Championship in recent years have been for nominal sums for this very reason. I am amazed that people are considering paying anything for the shareholdings of the Lowe cabal and Wilde.

I have to say that I think you are being extremely optimistic thinking we are (or near to) being on an even keel. Last season we lost north of £15m (Operating loss of £13m and a further £2m interest charge), so we have a very black hole that needs addressing. The cash outflow might be slightly differet, but it was/is still a very sizeable figure. I don't think the savings made to date have been of that magnitude to make us break even, and as mentioned elsewhere if the drop in gates of 4,000 continues then that will be close to being £1.5m to £2m worse off than last season. We are still very much in the mire from a financial perspective.

Judging after three league games is totally unrealistic, and even allowing for todays game which equates to relegation form, it is still being totally unrealistic. We will need 10 games, maybe 20 and arguably the entire season to give a fair reflection of how we are doing. Numpties coming on after one good performance are as naive as those crucifying a young team after two games. What's worse is those that feel the need to come on here and pontificate after a good performance. Rather than take heart from a good win, for some reason they feel they need to come on here and wave their dikc around and rub their fellow fans nose in it, just because they were slightly more cautious/worried with how the season would go. Similarly those that come on here crucifying other fans when we have just lost would be better off keeping schtum, as ultimate it means our Club is in the mire. As supporters we all have different views on what the future holds and it doesn't mean jack sh17t if we are realistic, optimistic, pessimistic et al.

And of course when the statement comes out that the Club has been mismanaged (by his new sidekick) since the same summer, the part about giving Rasiak a 4 year deal on mega wonga is brushed over (along with the warchest quote!!!). The double standards at play are shocking.

Agreed, but it is also no secret that Lowe is declaring that the new set up was all his idea (I wonder what Wilde does then?). He will therefore have to be judged on how it performs (and will not be able to hide behind the excuses that there were no alternatives, his hands were tied etc). Despite being up against it from a financial perspective we still have/had a number of alternative routes that we could have chosen to follow i.e. keeping Pearson over Poortvliet, so we shouldn't just accept that being in the financial pickle has meant we have no alternatives.

Exactly!!!!!!!! He spent 2million on Rasiak and then committed the Club to a four year deal. And that was about the same time as he was telling everyone that their was a war chest that Burley could spend.

That was some commitment back then by Lowe. I remember him saying he had blown the wage cap to land him, but didn't realise it was such a lomg term commitment.

Didn't realise Rasiak got a four year deal!!!!!!!!!!!

When do their contracts run out??? I assumed we would get no money for Rasiak as thought his deal wouldprobably be three years, which would expire at the end of the Watford loan. Saga, I presume he still has one or two years left???

And therein lies the crux of the problem for me, in that I find it very difficult to trust individuals who between them so spectacularly fkuced it up last time around. The manager, players and Club will get my support, that's always comes without any reservations, but that doesn't mean that I don't have massive doubts over those in control (and for very good reasons IMHO).

I would like to think that most people now understand the perilous financial situation we now find ourselves in, but there also has to be a balance between slashing & burning and getting the mix right. I could could get you a team with a wage bill of under £1m, which would solve the Club's financial problems (in the short term anyway), but their results would make Derby's Premiership points score look mammoth. Any fool (or accountant) can cut costs, but those that are worth their corn will ensure that the company has enough not only to survive, but to propser going forward. The big question is have the current lot got the nous to do the latter?

I think he meant the Saints Charitable Trust (as he also mentioned workign with the council), not The Saints Trust.

I don't think that's fickle, if anything that's being consistent. Being fickle would be thumping the keyboard last summer saying, "Why are they ****ing around, sign him up now etc etc etc?", and then this summer saying, "No great loss, he was only playing for the contract etc etc etc".

I was never a massive fan of Davis, but I do think he is way ahead of Bart. For all his great shot stopping saves, I do fear that Bart has a tendency to flap, does not command his box and does not communicate well with the defence. Losing Davis will IMHO be a big blow. I have no problem with plying talented and up for it youngsters, but I think they should be augmented by a strong spine of the team, starting with the keeper. Maybe Forecast will be the oe to step up, because in Bart I see Ivan Katalinic.

Absolutely spot on. The fickleness of football fans knows no bounds. I would love to be able to have a look at the sign Saga thread from last summer when people were thumping the keyboard. The only consolation is that exactly the same thing has happened with a number of players over the years. As for Saga himself, we really should be asking why having spent a million on him the manager never really played him. And like some of the other players, I would imagine your motivation might be affected having been clearly told that you will be shipped out.

Think the smileys etc have been rumbled!!!! Tried HTH a few times as well, but now need a new way of winding up some of the posters on here. CBD.

Let's be quite clear that I had no problem with JP whatsoever. My beef was with the stories on the OS (and The Echo which were close to be toal ******), and the fact they were treating supporters like idiots. I have no idea whether he will be good or bad, results will be the judge of him and I am more than willing to give him time. As for JP himself, I warmed to him when I heard him in Solent not long after he took over. Came across as very confident and self assured. Also heard him close up after the West Ham game in the corporate suite and that reinforced the positive view of him. He definitely has a presence (in the same way that SCW had a presence when I met him). Hopefully it can translate to the players and into results. He's an unknown quantity, but that doesn't mean he will be good or bad.

That's definitely what he said (he is working three days a week). I like Cowen and have to say he answered all the questions really well and even took some personal blame for the boadroom shennanigans. Interesting to hear Wilde definitely declined the invitation (didn't go down with the audience).

I think he actually said hypocrity (sic) which meant I missed the next few minutes. Quite like the sound of Poortvliet, and I don't just mean what he is saying but how he says it. He seems to know what he wants to say, but sometimes struggles with the lingo and comes out with a cracker. i.e. his bit about feeling sorry for teams who are relegated.