Shroppie

I'm in my 70s and could easily say it's less hassle to watch on TV. But I'm actually getting very bored with wall-to-wall TV football and long to get back to the real experience of being there. For me it's the day out, meeting friends, a few pints, visits to away grounds, the atmosphere at the match. Saints have given me huge pleasure (as well as frustration and pain) over the years. For all my loathing of the over-bloated finances and pay of players and the prioritisation of the PL as a global brand, I will do whatever small thing I can to support them through this. So I'll be leaving my ST balance against whenever we can get back. I'm fortunate not to be needing the refund so I'll help the cash flow and enjoy a cheap ST when the time comes!

Seriously, Tuesday's result could have big financial implications with fans taking decisions over demanding refunds or carrying over balances. Could push more to wanting their money back: not good for the club's cash flow when things are already so difficult.

If that's correct (It is the Sun) then it argues that VAR were not even questioning the penalty, despite the minimal contact which was initiated by Martial hanging his foot out as he dived. If that's the case it's a joke - an instant whitewash. How can it be that the video has been watched by dozens of experts who nearly all agree that there is doubt, but VAR don't even review it with the ref? Is sounds as though they froze it at the point if contact, presumably deeming any contact to be a penalty, to assess where the ball was at that instant and judge whether there was an attempt to play it. That is utterly flawed. There is contact between players all the time without it being a foul, and without motion, it's impossible to judge whether the contact was significant, affected the player or was deliberate. We know Bednarek wasn't trying to play the ball: he was pulling out and trying to avoid a tackle or contact. But no still frame can be a measure of whether the contact was part of a motion to play the ball or not. To me, it smacks of a pre-determined decision to back the ref and justify it with a carefully chosen still frame. That simply isn't how VAR should work.

-7 in the Fantasy League. Pity the player who triple-captained him. 🤣🤣

Don't think we know. It was either that or to decide if a red was warranted.

He had to work at it as his first effort was actually moved outside the box. Probably why VAR was reluctant to overrule a second time. Anyone else notice that he stopped a very good advantage to award the first one?

Corrected.

This is fake.

No question. Clearly onside.

I saw that too. The rest of his body is well behind the line.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're talking with Arsenal about it. Stronger case if both appeal. But, as you say, more chance they'll tweak it for future games whilst we pay the price for a stupid unclear interpretation.

Apparently Romeu won't be back. So, for me, Armstrong has to drop back to DM. Two from Djenepo, Redmond and Minamino. If Bednarek bdiesmt get the red overturned, no idea at CB.

Absolutely agreed, and put more eloquently than I ever could.

In the cold light of day, I’ll attempt some rational answers. Do I blame Ralph? Emphatically no. He might have tweaked the team a bit but basically he put out the best he could. Two Academy players given their big chance. Ramsey made a decent go of it. More on Jankewitz to follow. Some will blame the owners and lack of investment. Is that realistic? In the current situation there's no money anywhere. Yes, I'd have liked two quality FBs. But with Bertrand and KWP firm first choices we struggled to get loans in as they'd want game time, which we can't guarantee. Buying players to challenge at FB was never happening. Then who was to blame? I’m putting Jankewitz top of the list. He’s a professional football player who acted in a reckless way and destroyed the team’s confidence and the game plan in one moment. You could see the shock on other players’ faces and he got little sympathy leaving. Tactics? No. I’m sure Ralph planned to play our usual pressing game, take the game to MU, push our wing backs up and keep theirs pinned back. He never got a chance. We hadn’t even settled into the game when Jankewitz blew it. A key part of our play is the central ball out to the DMs who can then bring the others in. Once a man short there, we couldn’t get out. And we rely on the DMs pressing, harrying and winning balls in midfield. JWP couldn’t do that alone, so Armstrong, Djenepo, Ings and Adams all found themselves forced back. It then became backs to the wall with a lot of chasing of a team with all the time to be patient and make us run. And we were tired. No chance of rotation just 72 hours after the last game. United made four changes with ridiculous quality left in the bench. I’m not going to analyse every player as I thought the ones left on the pitch worked hard, but with belief totally shot. There was plenty of frustrated anger too. Officials? Dean was absolutely disgraceful. Jankewitz deserved red. No argument. But he gave a string of one-sided decisions on fouls. He gave a pen for a foul outside the box which VAR did, amazingly, correct (much to Savage’s anger) I don’t think I’m imagining it when I say he was almost deferential to the MU players whilst being to opposite to us. The Che offside goal was nowhere near offside and only VAR can be blamed for that. What were they looking at? The end of Che’s long-sleeved shirt? No idea. That would have made a difference, not to the final result, but to lifting spirits. I’m sure that at 1-4 we wouldn’t have gone on to concede 9. Then Martial seemed very close to offside for his goal and we didn’t even pause for a check. No careful manipulation of lines for him. But the key incident that turned the game from a bad defeat to a disaster was obviously the Bednarek penalty. Dean couldn’t wait to give it, VAR was too weak to overturn it, although of course we still have the “clear and obvious error” which I assume swayed them. This interpretation is so subjective: depending on the team involved, VAR can search for ages for something to call clear and obvious, or quickly sweep it aside. Often there’s a refs union that thinks it’s good to back each other up. I’m sure if Dean hadn’t given it, VAR would have quickly agreed. And we don’t know what was said when he was called to the screen, which only seemed to show one freeze frame. Was it “Don’t think that’s a foul - take a look” or “if you give that maybe you have to send him off” Either way, once VAR failed to do its job and bottled it, there’s no way the arrogant twat objectively reviews it. And delights in flourishing the red. That finished us off: without that it’s 6-0. Not good, but I’d have taken it. This rule about not attempting to play the ball is a perfect example if how Laws are being tweaked (offside and handball are others, but life is too short) without careful consideration of the exact wording to avoid vagueness and misinterpretation. There needs to be a clear inclusion of there being INTENT to foul the player without trying to get the ball. Bednarek’s contact (if at all) was after Martial started falling, he was trying to pull out and there was absolutely no intent to commit a cynical foul to stop a goal. Ralph has picked the team up before and he’ll do it again. I hope I never see Jankewitz again. Rant over. Blue line. Move on.

Yes. I couldn't believe his idiotic comments that the rules and interpretation need to change to catch up with technology. That's totally backwards. The rules should not change. Technology should help refs decide if rules have been broken.

Absolute joke

This'll be red fir Bednarek

Absolutely. The line is through the boot near the top. Che is behind it. Unless the idiots are using the end of Che's LONG sleeve?

He's had two Pl starts. Think he's primarily CB but has played RB before.

No such luck

We're past the cut-off for a 5 card suspension.

The last time I can remember us having this long an injury list was when we beat Wolves 6-0

Except we loaned Valery to Birmingham yesterday.

Not that happy about changing shape but may be no alternative to playing the best players we can muster in the positions that work best. As for the bench, bit worried about the late KO. It'll be past their bedtime by half time. May even need a supply of nappies.