Fitzhugh Fella

"serious doubts about the takeover" I think this is where I came in about 4 weeks ago!

I have a copy of a letter sent by his solicitors veryfying his wealth which was sent to Fry so I guess he does exist.

Yes to your last question because I have a copy of Pinnacle's initial bid to Fry where he says his backers could invest up to £30m. But obviously one of those backers soon disappeared. As for ML not trumping Pinnacle I would say that ML is not the sort to trump other bidders, plus he would have been told by AO that to trump a bid that would make MLT chairman would not be conducive to having a good relationship with the fans. And I don't think Fry was 100% in the loop re leveraged debt (presumably it was not his business where the funds came from) although the truth seems to be out there now. As for how much Matt knew, one would have to ask him but in the one conversation I had with him (which was a little one-sided) on the Saturday he said it was all going to go ahead on the Monday, he seemed very sure that Pinnacle were the real deal.

False promises and MLT's name. Once LC got involved I think Fry would have been even happier knowing that in the past LC had put his hand in his pocket. Leon Crouch and MLT undoubtedly lent Pinnacle an air of gravitas.

No heard nothing about Tommac or the Irish, but I know Dan (Help me Rhonda) Williams surfaced briefly for a while on this forum around then. Like I say when a club is up for sale all sorts of things emerge from the woodwork.

I think by the time LC signed the cheque he was a honorary member of Pinnacle.

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt. Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb. The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

a good question. I don't think they were "given" extended exclusivity because once the deadline passed Fry was reported to be seeking talks with other parties but of of course, by then, Pinnacle were firmly in the driving seat with Lynam incredibly being given a Saints e mail address and granted access to the players at Stapleford.

Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season. Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome. I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses". It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on. It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth. The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up. Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible. I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement. We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either). As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut. Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months!

I like the sound of this mystery new signing and getting his twin brother will be a bonus

Doug, this is terrible news - I was wondering where you had got to recently. Hang on in there - my thoughts are with you as you face this awful struggle against the odds. Yes certainly puts things in perspective. Best Wishes Duncan

Pinnacle bid was totally based on leveraged debt. They were already "hawking" the club around to other buyers. The new buyers none too impressed with those that lent their name to Pinnacle. (More than one source for the above). Hope that satisfies you Le God. And the relevance Billy? Well I guess we might still have Andrew Surman on the books had Pinnacle not messed us around and I am pretty sure had AP been in the job 4 weeks longer we would all be feeling a little more optimistic for next week. Sure, Pinnacle is in the past but the repercussions of their ill-fated interest will remain with us for a while longer plus a lot of us were taken in by what at the end of the day was a load of old bull. Remember Happy Father's Day messages etc etc. Oh and thanks Andy.

yeah but if people don't like the gossip the messenger gets shot - I gather more details of Pinnacle's bid are getting leaked and it is not nice listening.

I hreard Thomas was a bit of a hypochondriac - especially when the pressure is on.

Nah people are still talking or perhaps I should say spinning

I agree. L Mac is far from perfect but he cares passionately about SFC and still does everything he can to promote Saints. I think he should be cut just a little slack for services rendered and you can say the same about Crouch. I doubt either man will ever have a position of influence at SMS again so maybe its time to say thanks to both men and let them be.

I thank you for your calm and measured reply, Hypo!

Well you can't accuse me of being pro Rupert but I have to say I feel Lowe had to do what he did. No man can face those sort of horrendous allegations and manage a Premiership team at the same time. I remember those last few months under Jones and we were terrible. Poor old Rupert (a quick lie down is called for) had no choice but to do what he did. Perhaps he was being a bit naive expecting Jones to attend a press conference with Hoddle the next day and to continue scouting but that's Rupert. I thought the UI article to be a good one and the writer deserves praise for not jumping on a convenient bandwagon. Hypo, no offence but you are very quick to call people's views stupid, sometimes it might be better to actually reflect a little on what is being said.

and an ex-Saint as well. Sir Bobby signed for us an amateur in 1949 before following Bill Dodgin to Fulham the following year. When I see some of the characters involved in football today and then I look at the integrity of people like Sir Bobby I am glad I "knew" the old days.

Yes it was Jimmy DRINKWATER - did you know him?

I almost hate to post this but during 1916-17 we had a PICKUP and a FRISBY in our side! F. Pickup was a goalkeeper would you believe while W. Frisby was on loan from the newly formed RFC - that figures too.

Another Reserve player in the 1990s - Leroy WHALE and during 1943-44 we had a POND and a DRINKWATER - I kid you not!

We had a North and a West during the 50s playing for the Reserves

Just found a K Marsh who played one game in goal for Saints Res twice in 63-64. He let in 5 against Chelsea on his debut!! Any relation?

Derry - in the middle of a 2 week cooling off period! Don't book any flights with BA this autumn! A couple of reserve players from the 80s could have been included Gary Bull - animal Steve Guppy - fish